Seem like Joe thinks Coldplay ripped him off. He alleges that Coldplay's "Viva La Vida" sounds suspiciously alot like his instrumental "If I Could Fly".

I've never heard it. Does it? For the musicians, are there musical similarities?

I think Joe is going to be coming into some money soon.

As a musician, it sounds VERY similar. TOO similar to be a coincidence IMO.

Listen and decide for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvB9Pj9Znsw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGGFJLpbu4
This vid is also good. It explains how, in musical theory, both riffs are the same.

But as far as I know, riffs cannot be copyrighted. I don't know if any musicians have been successfully sued for stealing riffs, but we all know that it happens all the time.

EDIT: Coldplay to Joe Satriani: Please don't sue our ass

[quote="kingnuuuur"]
But as far as I know, riffs cannot be copyrighted. I don't know if any musicians have been successfully sued for stealing riffs, but we all know that it happens all the time.

You could be right - I seem to remember many artists claiming infringment in the past, but cant recall the outcome of any of the cases.

Wtih that said, Satriani is one of the world's greatest guitarists. I think he trained Steve Via and I know he trained Kirk Hammett. He has more than enough musical intelligence to make a laughing stock out of Coldplay in court and may very well be able to convince the court of said infringment.

Successful suits

George Harrison was successfully sued in a prolonged suit that began in 1971 for plagiarizing the Chiffons' "He's So Fine" for the melody of his own "My Sweet Lord." [6]

In early 2007, Timbaland was alleged to have plagiarized several elements (both motifs and samples) in the song "Do It" on the 2006 album Loose by Nelly Furtado without giving credit or compensation. See 2007 Timbaland plagiarism controversy.

In early 2006, the writers of Lee Hyori's song "Get Ya" were accused of plagiarizing Britney Spears' 2005 song "Do Somethin'". This eventually led Lee Hyori to stop promoting the song and contributed to the failure of the song and its album, Dark Angel.

In 2005, Belgian songwriter Salvatore Acquaviva won a judgment against Madonna, claiming that her 1998 hit, "Frozen" had been lifted from his early-80s song, "Ma View Fout L'camp". The judge declined to award damages, but did order the withdrawal of all remaining discs for sale and barred the song from airplay on Belgian TV and radio.[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_plagiarism

Yeah, there are definite similarities. I hope Satriani wins this.

Yeah, that's pretty blatant. But Satriani has a problem on his hands.

See, Coldplay's song came out in 2008. Satriani's came out in 2004.

But in 2002, Los Enanitos Verdes came out with a song called "Frances Limon"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G57CgtX-BsI

Of course, back in 1981, Marty Balin released an album with a song called "Hearts":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vASdN1WZWAM

Wuh oh.

but this may be just a case of cryptomnesia - something that I know has happened to me in writing before, and is sometimes very surprising!

you may also find this list of interest

I swear earlier on this year there was a little known rock band claiming that coldplay stole one of its songs and that chris martin was seen getting into their music at their concert. There was a video on youtube but I cant remember what it was called

Pop bands essentially make their bread watering down the more intricate and involved music of artists who are worth a damn, not in any specific genre per say, but overall. Most of the time they do it in a manner that alters the song enough not to be as blatant as this, but I think that Joe Satriani has a case here. At the very least, Coldplay should have mentioned that they were influenced by this particular song and essentially wrote a lame Pop variation on it, rather than going around claiming that they're so original all the time. The differences between the two songs are just as negligible as those between "Under Pressure" and "Ice, Ice Baby". The band is basically a bad version of Radiohead with three times as much keyboards and an even more revolting vocalist. One thing that people might want to check out is the 2nd part of the video already listed above to show exactly how Joe's song melody has essentially been watered down in the Cold Play song, it's pretty technical but I suspect this is the sort of stuff that will be brought up in the case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJWLfpOe ... annel_page

P.S. - Coldplay fucking sucks hard.

EG Puddle of Mud's She Fucking Hates Me and Suicidal Tendencies' I Saw Your Mommy.

I've heard them together, and yes it sounds like Satch has a case here.

Regardless of their guilt or innocence, I'd like to see Coldplay forced to pay. Few bands can put out such bland, boring, limp stuff and still be hailed as deep and meaningful. They are irritating in the extreme and their fans are worse.

If Satch doesn't win over motherfucking Coldplay in a lawsuit over musical ideas, it pretty much states that they're better songwriters than him, or at least that's what people at the court would think. It will be a sad, sad day for music if that happens.

I don't like Coldplay as much as the next guy, but it honestly could be just a really awful coincidence. I mean, fifty million songs are created every year, so having two songs sound similar is not that far-fetched.

I will admit that Coldplay had better be nervous, still.

If Satch wins, I hope the judge awards him the opportunity to play shredding guitar solos until the heads of the members of Coldplay literally explode....

So, did no one at all look at my links? If you didn't bother, I posted them because the guitar work that Satriani is making a big stink about sounds very similar to a song by Los Enanitos Verdes made several years before Satriani's song came out.

And to a lesser extent, it sounds like the song "Hearts" from the early 80s.

I haven't heard those two, but I listened to all the YouTube stuff about Joe & Coldplay. I especially like the music theory guy. Not because of the theory, which wouldn't convince anyone in a court of law, but because he played both bits on the same instrument. Without all the strings and keyboards and whatnot, you can realy tell that the major song elements are not merely similar, they are nearly identical. The only major difference is that Coldplay's verse is Satriani's chorus.

The older songs do sound just as familiar. I think the case here is that Satriani has enough money to actually afford to do said lawsuit where as the other bands have no chance in hell of funding a lawsuit.

With that said, after looking at the YouTube video, I'm still not completely convinced that I'd even say it was blatant plagiarism. It is obvious that the chord changes are identical, but the comment on rhythm and groove I feel is off. Tempo is a minor part of a piece, where as melody and harmony are much more important. If a similar tempo is enough to say one of these things are identical then millions of songs are but one step away from being plagiarism.

The drum backing on both tracks is completely different, one being a lot more intense the other essentially non-existent. The synth element is the harmony on the Coldplay track where as the bass line in Satriani's is the harmony. These two elements to me aren't close enough to merit them being the same. Sure, the chords are the same, but the way they're utilized in each song isn't in my opinion. My biggest thing about them not being the same is the melody. Satriani's melody lies all in guitar and is completely distinct from Coldplay's vocal work. This I don't think even needs an argument if you've heard the songs.

When it comes to music, I'd have to say melody-harmony-rhythm/groove is the order of importance. The melodies to me have few similar qualities, Satriani uses an energetic guitar part and Coldplay their usual hollow vocals. The harmony is similar, but I don't feel that copying a chord change is a strong plagiarism charge. I'm sure there are metal and rap songs that utilize the same harmony and chord changes but they certainly are not copying each other, because the melody is completely different. Last, rhythm and groove is far more than just the tempo. These songs have extremely different backing tracks.

As much as I'd like to say that a huge mainstream pop act blatantly stole a god like Satriani's idea, I don't think it's the case here. Even on the first go round listening to each song I didn't feel it was a big enough difference to warrant anything other than maybe some slight inspiration, not plagiarism. If we boil everything down to music theory I think we'll start seeing this way more than we want. Who wants to see The Beatles suing Iron Maiden? Not me.

Coldplay have admitted in interviews that the Blur song "Sing" heavily influenced one of the tracks on their latest album.

I imagine a similar thing happened here, but obviously, they aren't going to admit it after datriani has started suing them.

I remember a while back one band sued another for stealing a 30 second stretch of silence from one of their songs... They actually won the case.

That's absurd...for silence??? Those moneyhungry pricks, silence is not trademarked as anyone can produce it!

That's what I think, from a musician's view. But I still hope Satriani wins this.

The music theory link was actually kind of hilarious, the chord progression Coldplay uses is REALLY not original in any way. They could have ripped it from one million other artists. The melody happens to sound like Satriani's, but it's a very natural melody for that particular progression if you ask me.

I checked into those other songs linked earlier on the thread, and there are a lot of huge similarities with the older stuff and the 2 songs in question. One positive to Satriani winning this though is that it may make certain Pop musicians today think twice before writing really cliche music, assuming that Coldplay's song was simply a fluke accident rather than a deliberate ripoff. The fact that Coldplay writes verses that sound like choruses from other popular songs give you an idea as to how far their musical ambition goes.

I've heard Coldplay's and Satriani's versions back-to-back and synchronized together, and it is certainly as close to an identical melody as you'll find in a 'so-and-so ripped off so forth!' forum. I mean, that's it man. I don't think it's any coincidence. I didn't bother checking if a link has been posted, but the vocal melody is just as close to another older song by some other artist.

Also, from Coldplay's website:



How would you know if he's a great musician if you didn't steal from him? If you're innocent, you haven't exactly engulfed yourselves in his works or repertoire. Just admit that you limey cocksuckers don't listen to music like his, and instead "have Enya cranking" in your Toyota Preus while having a bandmate go down on you, contracting chlamydia from the stickshift. If the Preus even has that. That's a slight embellishment of what one of the faggots from the Backstreet Boys said on Fox News, that he "cranks Enya" in his car, as if that shit being turned up really loud could ever be constituted as "cranking". And I'm sure these Coldplay shit-dicks are the same, listening to Enya and swallowing jizz out of a glory-hole situated halfway between their own mansions. I mean for one thing, they're English and can afford dental. Fucking ge-yay-yay. They probably band together with other eco-friendly and anti-waterboarding artists like Rage Against The Machine and Bono, trying to save the tuna and faggoty shit like that. Fuck yourselves.

What are you talking about....?

I thought it was fairly cut and dry.

I don't want to be biased to any sides but that statement of yours is kind of childish.

I really don't want to see another divisive argument that would, without doubt, split this entire forum right down the middle, pitting one side against the other. Good point.

He has trained:

Kirk Hammett
Steve Vai
Alex Skolnick
Eric Peterson
Rick Hunolt
Larry LaLonde
Phil Kettner


Those are the ones I know of.

Well, I just hope they have some sort of musical judge here. I mean we all know Satriani knows musical theory, but does the judge, lawyers, etc knows?



Buckethead also.

Agreed.
Coldplay is one of several bands (Along with MCR, Limp Biskit, and Breaking Benjamin) that I cannot stand any single facet of there work.

I did. Quite intresting.

I guess its just a cliched riff.

I believe coldplay was , however, I hope they lose.
I cant stand them.

I think I remember Keef suing a band in the 90's over a stolen riff and he won. I THINK. Anyway their are some simularities definitely but Tom Petty's thoughts on the Dani California/Mary Jane's Last Dance issue sum it up for me:

"I seriously doubt that there is any negative intent there. And a lot of rock 'n' roll songs sound alike... Ask Chuck Berry... If someone took my song note for note and stole it maliciously, then maybe [I'd sue]. But I don't believe in lawsuits much. I think there are enough frivolous lawsuits in this country without people fighting over pop songs."

As much as I'd like to see this happen, I doubt Coldplay intended to rip off Satriani. If they wanted to rip off somebody, they would have looked towards a completely obscure, unknown artist, and Satriani is one of the world's most well-known guitar solo artists, so they would have known that they were venturing into dangerous waters if they did indeed intentionally rip him off.

How old are you?

The Rolling Stones won that case, it was over Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve. They claimed the entire song was ripped off I think, and they got 100% of the song's royalties.

Anyway, the resemblance between the Satch and Coldplay songs is uncanny, I doubt they did it on purpose, but I'd still like to see them lose.

The Verse sampled an orchestral version of a Rolling Stones song without receiving permission, which is different than just nicking a melody intentionally or not. It's a much clearer violation of copyrights, etc.

While I don't think Satriani is super well known, I do think he is probably fairly obscure to the average Coldplay fan.

AC/DC is probably underground and obscure to a Coldplay fan.