I've decided to bring up a topic that I feel may be a jumping point for several other topics and discussions but I think that it is worthy of discussion due to the fact that I am sure I am not the only one who will have feelings and thoughts on the issue. The issue is whether Heavy Metal, or any cultural movement or subculture that may be alien to one person, is esoteric*. I will use the example of Heavy Metal throughout since this is the subject which has given me the interest to create this discussion. When referring to Heavy Metal, I am talking about the genre as a whole, not traditional metal only or excluding the extreme genres though it is possible that there will be a split at one point in the discussion that involves in depth discussion of black and death metal separately. Who knows. Sorry for this preface. Onwards!

I have found in discussions with people, family, friends, co-workers and, at times, random strangers, that people who don't like heavy metal (remember this can refer to any cultural movement or subject of which an inside knowledge is needed) that their reasoning for not liking heavy metal usually falls into three or four categories of varying scales of ignorance:

ranging from less ignorant to more ignorant (though exceptions are inevitable)

1. "It's nothing but noise!" - These people generally just do not like the sound of metal and cannot comprehend why someone would enjoy listening to a guitar that isn't acoustic. These people do not mention other reasons aside from this predisposed objection to the tone of the music.

2. "You can't sing or dance to it!" - People in this category might not necessarily dislike the tone or style but rather feel that music is meant to be danced to and sung along with. These people are slightly more ignorant due to their seeming lack of knowledge about Manowar, Iron Maiden or the myriad other bands with great choruses and simple beats. WARNING: METAL SHOULD NOT BE DANCED TO

3. "It's all so negative!" - The people who are in this category have never actually cared to like the music and feel this is a legitimate and logical reason for not liking Heavy Metal. They have never actually read the lyrics to any band, and assume all songs are about the devil, death, dead bodies and drug-fueled sex orgies with corpses.

4. "Rock Music is the Spawn of Satan!" - No definition required.

These reasons are just for my example though a similar reasoning may be found when talking about other subjects.

The main questions I would like to raise is:

Q1; "Are cultures and subcultures esoteric?"
Q2: "Can one 'learn' to like and enjoy a particular culture or subject?"
Q3: "Do people have a predisposed personal appeal to some subjects, and a retraction to others that is natural and unchangeable?"

Multiple times I have talked to my parents about Heavy Metal and my love of the music. They have come to see my bands play from high school into the present. My dad tends to be a bit more open though, he still has reservations and still can not quite understand what Heavy Metal is about though he understands that I love it and he is happy that I have an appreciation for something that is at least intellectual. My mom on the other hand, is completely oblivious. She would fall into category 3. Now, I don't want either of my parents to become a metalhead to the core like I am. I wouldn't want to walk home from work and see my mom or dad blasting Motorhead or Demolition Hammer without her having a general love for the music.

No matter how many times I try to explain what I find in the music, that the lyrics aren't about death and destruction but about reality in all its aspects, that the music is complex and that happy, beautiful singing would never fit over death metal styled music. She fails to see "why they can't play happy music." I am sure that many people have been confronted with similar situations.

REMEMBER: This topic is not about my mom liking heavy metal. It is about whether culture is esoteric. Stay on topic please.

Q1: Is Heavy Metal a subculture that is esoteric to all but those who love it.

Q2: Would it be possible to "teach one to like heavy metal" who originally had a serious dislike for it. For example. Can one take my mom, who likes The Beatles, and slowly introduce her into metal and teach her to, at one point, like a band such as Venom or Mayhem even, after years of indoctrination and work. (This is hypothetical. No "If she doesn't like it, why would you want to force her to?) kind of answers.

Q3:Do people have a predisposed personal appeal to some subjects, and a retraction to others that is natural and unchangeable?
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ESOTERIC
1. understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2. belonging to the select few.
3. private; secret; confidential.
4. (of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.

I saw no topics about this. Thank you all for your answers.

Now I am little confused as to whether you want a discussion on culture as a whole or simply metal. Your second set of questions kind of goes against the first set.

Culture/Subculture as a whole:

Q1: I do not believe one can make a generalizations that big. I would say very few cultures are strictly esoteric, however subcultures can be esoteric, it depends on which subculture we are talking about.

Q2: I think one can adapt to almost any form of culture, a good example of this would be me moving from Canada to Russia. I would be able to learn their culture and make it a part of my life. The same goes for most subcultures. One can easily dismiss or engage in smaller groups of culture, however as I previously mentioned, some subcultures are esoteric.

Q3: Yes, I do believe that people are predisposed to think a certain way, some of the variables that this would include are;
-Area of the world/Type of city (rural, urban...etc)
-Parents and peers
-School environment

However I also believe many people retain an individual or abstract form of thought in which their surroundings may have very little influence on the individual. There people are probably not going to be predisposed, or at least not as much.


In terms of metal:

Q1: I would say that metal is indeed esoteric, I consider music to be a form of art. And art subcultures are often a love it or hate type of thing. Many people have very closed minds towards metal and often state many things along the lines of your four examples (more or less the first three).

Q2: I have tried to get many of my friends to enjoy metal, but most of my attempts fail. They all prefer trendy, rap influenced genres such as horrorcore and mallcore. Unless they choose to pursue music from a more artistic perspective, I doubt they will ever enjoy listening to metal.

Q3: I am not sure that many people have a predisposition towards music. I suppose if you grow up in an artistic family you may be more inclined to appreciate metal (though not necessarily enjoying it). Otherwise I would say it is more of a cultural influence for music as opposed to a predisposition.

Q1; "Are cultures and subcultures esoteric?"
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Cultures and Subcultures dont really fall that tightly into the definition of "esoteric". They are more tangible, in the sense it shows up in forms of music, art, clothing, design etc. I mean, it is not like all members of a certain subculture conform to one standard. They may share a common interest but that doesnt mean they exclusively belong to that one sub culture. Overlaps often occurs, eg - A guy could be into the punk subculture and veganism. But a vegan doesnt necassarily have to be a punk.



Q2: "Can one 'learn' to like and enjoy a particular culture or subject?"
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"Learning" is absorbing a subject objectively. eg- I learn of Manga.
"Liking" is more of an emotional thing. eg - I didnt like manga.

For someone who learnt OF manga and liked it, then I guess you could say it was instant. It clicked with him the first time and he got "into" it.


Q3: "Do people have a predisposed personal appeal to some subjects, and a retraction to others that is natural and unchangeable?"
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I guess so. I cant explain how I am stuck halfway between metal that is generally anti-theistic and a conservative outlook on life.



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Q1: Is Heavy Metal a subculture that is esoteric to all but those who love it.
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what aspect of heavy metal subculture are you talking about?

If you are talking about heavy metal subculture as in "long hair and leather jackets", it becomes a matter of taste/choice...same reason why metalheads dont wear bling and loose clothing. Theres nothing "esoteric" about it. You either have a taste for it or you dont.

If you are talking of heavy metal subculture in terms of dark lyrical content, keep in mind that metal itself borrows from other non-metal works (eg - History, mythology, politics, anatomy etc) so it wouldnt be "esoteric" to " all but those who love it."

If you are talking of heavy metal subculture in terms of a leaning towards the dark things and macabre, then there are non-metalheads who may also share the same thoughts. Perhaps they might be more inclined towards metal as well.

If you are talking of heavy metal as in PURELY MUSIC, then yes...only a few "get" it.



Q2: Would it be possible to "teach one to like heavy metal" who originally had a serious dislike for it.
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Nope. Read answer 2 to the previous set of answers.


Q3:Do people have a predisposed personal appeal to some subjects, and a retraction to others that is natural and unchangeable?
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Well, I guess people who cant get into metal, dont like the harsh vocals and the distorted sound. Even though they might be knowledgeable in subjects that make up lyrical themes of metal, they may not have a taste for it.
Read answer 3 to the previous set.

You cannot force a person into a counter-cultural lifestyle. Music that sells is amenable to the masses, contains populistic - usually sophomoric - lyrical themes, is derivative and hybridized - containing little that could be characterized as distinctive, and typically follows standard verse-chorus form. With very few exceptions, it is valueless. Popular musical artists follow trends in mass consumption. The same is true of popular visual artists, who tend to paint decorative, nonprovocative forms. The latest trend I've noticed is Rothko rip-offs, done badly, made to cover screw holes in walls. Or, take TV. Can anyone explain why people watch Lost and haven't even heard of The Wire? I know, we all sound like pricks when we talk like this, but face it: it's all a matter of taste, and some people just don't have it! The masses just aren't discerning, and that is a discouraging truth that keeps artists of merit from finding wider audiences. There's always been a divide between popular culture and counter-culture, and getting someone to cross over from one to the other is next to impossible. Every time I've tried, I've turned myself into an erudite little shit. And maybe that's what I am. And maybe that's the price we all have to pay for swimming upstream. It's so disingenuous of us to try to get the masses on our side. I mean, what would happen to metal if the mainstream weren't there to bore the living shit out of us?!

Yes. Most people wouldn't really understand it, not until they've listened to it for a bit anyway. Also there's a certain amount of inherent stereotyping going on. Up until you've spent time with people who listen to Darkthrone, dress all in black, and hail satan you would tend to reduce them to the mental image of said. But once you've hung out, and heard them interrupt your debate on whether or not Christianity had a negative sum effect on history with whether or not they should ask the goth chick at the next lunch table out, and bitching about their math homework they're a bit less intimidating.



You could teach someone to "appreciate" Metal (i.e. recognize a good guitar solo, or a strong riff, or a really great death growl). But you couldn't make them like it.

On the other hand if you think someone might like metal, you should introduce them to something lighter and pop-ier like the newer Dragonforce stuff. Then slowly, as they get calloused to things like overblown distorted guitars, not having a clue what the hell they're saying, ridiculous speeds, and talent; you can give them stronger and better stuff until they are weened off of pop music.



I don't think there's a "musical taste" gene that's inherent and unrelated to other genes. I'd say it's a collection of other tendencies and pre-dispositions that are equal parts nature, nurture, and mood.

To be honest, I don't think there's a long Sontagian explanation for mainstreamers disapproval of Heavy Metal...actually there is, but I simply don't have the energy to type out why.

My philosophy is simple:

If you dig it, great! If not, that's fine. And if you're against me because of my taste in music, rearrange your fucking priorities. If a group of people liking a music you don't approve of is ruining your groove, please count your blessings