I open this thread to discuss relations with the mainstream society and dealing with them. It can be anything in maintaining a relationship with it, including tips on getting jobs, keeping long hair looking professional, conversations to mull over with non-metalheads, etc.

Often times, some friends of mine find it hard to break free from the "If you don't like metal, you're not my friend!" mentality. Whether they accept or not, our subculture's survival depends upon the good will of the mainstream majority. However, I often find my words falling on deaf ears (or aloof eyes if I'm on the internet).

Make no mistake, I don't like the mainstream; to be quite honest, I've yet to see something more artificial than it. But I digress. How do we go about dealing with them, and more importantly, how can we get them to accept (or even like) us?

Being into metal doesn't make you part of some different race. I am visually a metalhead, I live and breathe my metal, but I'm also a regular guy. I have no problems getting along with others outside of metal.

I'm not trying to imply or even infer that metal is a different race; that would be absurd.

However, we are a subculture that the mainstream, for a considerable amount of time, had difficulty tolerating.

I understand that I started the topic off a little awkward, which seems to imply that I intended to discuss it in an "us vs. them" perspective; quite simply, I don't.

I'm opening this thread mainly as a debate and advice thread. If people have tips on blending their aesthetic into the workplace or anything in dealing with those outside the subculture, please post!

Well, here's my advice. When you're going to work, tie your hair back and replace the band shirt with something more conservative. That's what I've always done and it's always worked just fine.

I find the best way to deal with it is to in fact just act normal most people probably won't care if you don't bring any attention to it.
I think an Alex Shane quote would be good here.



I understand that if you read that quote one way it seems to contradict my last sentence.

I feel with you here.

Of course, I'm committed to metal as a mode of expression (though not exclusively metal), but I don't see metal as an end in itself. In fact I look down upon anyone who sees their subculture as an end in itself. I tend to see as quite shallow, those in big cities and can afford to have their entire circle of friends made up of nothing but members of their own subculture. With such people, it doesn't matter what subculture they're a part of, they're just cliquey urbanite scenesters as far as I'm concerned. I've never been able to communicate with such people. If they're not cliquey they're just dumb and hedonistic.

I would say there's a certain level at which one should make concessions to mainstream society. You want to be a functioning member but you don't want to compromise your integrity. But then again, it all depends on your threshhold, what kind of job you have (and what level of smartness is required) and what sort of non-metalheads your dealing with. I don't have too much trouble talking to non-metalheads, though I find obligatory mundane conversations like "so...what did you study at university?" tedious and especially hate people talking about reality TV shows. It all depends.

I also think that the extent of the detachment of the metal subculture (and the subcultures within) from mainstream is debatable, and how we define the mainstream.

Although It is always interesting to discuss metal's relationship with the mainstream (at least I find it interesting), I get the impression that you find a problem where there is none. I feel that an individual belonging to any underground subculture will be separated from the mainstream only if he chooses too. I doubt that anyone finds difficulty blending in with the mainstream if he/she chooses to. Afterall, we are constantly exposed to all forms of mainstream media and social relations that the average metalhead (or anyone, for that matter) knows the mainstream society (such a vague term) inside out.

Basically, subculture is a refuge, but only a mild one at that. It relies on mainstream culture and mediums for intra-subcultural communication. For a recent example, myspace is really handy for bands despite the revulsion many metal fans have towards it. Almost all subcultures rely on other industries to a degree.

I don't mind the mainstream, why should I? Anybody who desperately strives to not be a conformist is bound to wind up becoming one, albite in a smaller environment than the mainstream.

Most people never guess that I listen to extreme metal unless I tell them. The only real difference between us and "the mainstream" is that we listen to a much less popular form of music.

In what other way can you read this so that it doesn't completely contradict what you said?

On the topic of conformity, most people don't want to be seen as conformists but the truth is most of us are conformists, no matter what fashion you are applying yourself to, you are conforming. Dressing up in a typical metal fashion is just as conformist as a white person trying to dress like a black American thug.

I myself am not shallow enough to dislike people for being "mainstream"... what does that even mean? how is a person mainstream? is a person mainstream if they listen to popular music? if they are then anyone who does anything that's popular should surely be mainstream. You like popular movies? popular books?

mainstream doesn't only apply to mainstream music.

How do you become not mainstream? Attempting to be anti-mainstream will only lead to extreme conformity.

/partly induced rant by bourbon.

...I think to make something clear. I'm not "HAIL THE UNDERGROUND! DOWN WITH SCENESTERS! FUCK THE POSERS!" I find that annoying. In many ways, the underground is somewhat of a joke. I take a page from Jim Goad when I say this.

http://www.unpopart.org/manifestos/man_jim.html

That aside, I'm trying my hardest to find common ground with common non-metalhead people. I know it sounds absurd, but I'm socially awkward. I'm not kidding. I don't know how to communicate with people.

You'd never guess I'm a metalhead if you saw me. I don't wear metal attire very often and my hair is short. Plus only a few of my friends listen to metal but they're the same as me. So naturally I meet a lot of people who don't know anything about metal, and it can be a bit awkward when they ask what I listen too, so normally I just say metal and give Iron Maiden and Judas Priest as examples because I've found that it's not worth the effort to explain why you like bands with names like Corpse Vomit and Visceral Evisceration for example. One time I let a chick look through my ipod and of course I got odd looks when she saw bands like Cock and Ball Torture but I just laughed it off and gave the "don't take this shit seriously" talk.

I like meeting people who are into other subgenres like the more obscure kinds of electronica such as dub step, they're usually just as interesting as people into obscure metal.

I'm getting the feeling you're asking for advice on how to communicate with people who are not familiar with a subculture you're a part of and how to help them understand that, despite liking different music, you're still a regular guy.

Pretty simple. You have other interests beside metal, right? (I would hope so!) Draw on those interests when with other people. If you can be civil and even interesting to others even when wearing a band shirt and sporting long hair, then you're opening up people's minds a little more. It's just a matter of being at ease with your appearance, personality, and music taste around others; before you know it, you'll open right up and the social awkwardness will fade away. It worked out for me (I used to be pretty shy back when I was in middle school) and I'd say I have a healthy mix of metal and non-metal friends. I feel that most people who take the time to talk to me pretty much let preconceptions disappear as they get to know me.

Same here. Thankfully not only am I socially awkward, I don't like most people because most people (particularly my age group (15-17) are assholes and/or stupid. In my age group usually there is circles of friends where everyone is buddies with each other, I'm just friends with random people in different circles.

Don't try too hard to make friends if it isn't going to make you happier, you may just be an introverted person who would actually rather be alone or with few people, no need to get upset about it and try to be like everyone else.

Mind you, I don't know you and for all I know you could hate being alone and are more of a social person.

Also: Alcohol is great for social awkwardness, just gotta be careful and not overdo it or get addicted.

I don't really care if my friends like metalcore, or grunge, or some other stuff. The only kind of people I generally don't get along with are people who listen to hip hop/rnb. I just don't get along with them most of the time.

Isn't metal generally supposed to be more accepting of people? I mean you see metalheads come from many different walks of life. Hell, if you looked at me, metal is probably the last thing you would think of me. I dress with jeans and a t shirt- quite casual, and I think being Chinese has a lot to do with it since most of my Chinese COMRADES~ end up listening to hip hop or electronica.

I really like the Alex Shane quote though.

I'm just like you two as well. I can never find anything to say when I'm at a social event around strangers or acquaintances I don't know very well, so it's usually pretty awkward. Around a small group of close friends, I can be quite social, but once the grows to any more than, say, 7 or 8 people, even if they're all pretty close friends, I just stop participating in the group's conversations and become silent and largely ignored. That's why I hate being in large groups of people in social events. In fact I just hate major social events in general, as there's always bound to be large groups of people and lots of strangers, two of my biggest fears.


That's also exactly like me. I also happen to be Chinese, dress in mainstream fashion (something that I'm rather ashamed of and have determined to rid myself of once I'm out of the watchful eye of my parents), and have people assuming I listen to pop music.


I despise mainstream culture, but I've learnt to survive, though not thrive, in it. That means I can tolerate most people despite secretly hating the way they get excited over some generic new TV series, the way they gossip about relationships, their obsession with partying and getting drunk, and their arrogance towards people who speak against mainstream culture.

Amen to the italics! I can feign conversation/interest with most of the generic people i have frequented at work and rare social occasions, but i really have trouble making a connection with people on the above mentioned topics. Especially the obsession with clubbing/partying/getting wasted.

You could read it as the "non-conformist" stance that most people "have" as the square hole and just simply be yourself.

What an inane topic, I assure you all of this stuff ceases to matter once you leave high school.

I'd bet on that too.

And here's a third, although most people would have no idea as to what I listen to, due to my rather eccentric behavior.

I look like a normal dude, short hair, generally wear jeans and band shirts or polos. I dont hang out with "metalheads" mostly punk kids and I love a lot of mainstream things although I also despise most of the characteristics of mainstream society.

This is true. Metal is but a genre of music I just so happen to love. Aside from that, I am just regular, every day normal guy. The most I've ever gotten from people outside of highschool is "Oh so you like metal? Cool.". Of course every once in a while some one will poke fun, but it's really not a big deal because most of the time it's just a joke. The people who would say something malicious of mean about my love of metal would find something else about me to hate if I was into something else. Assholes are assholes, no matter what.

Why do you care if "they" don't accept or like metalheads? Seems like you're longing for attention from the general mainstream, which is ironic because if you were that much of the "metalhead", you shouldn't care much for what people think to begin with if you were that passionate about your love of music. If you feel you have to "give special treatment to those that aren't metal", then something must be wrong with your social skills because it's not rocket science: just be yourself and if they don't accept you, then whatever. Not to sound harsh, but seriously, being yourself is the remedy for social awkwardness. I'm just fine being myself and people look at me as either "weird" or "corny." I hate the term "weird" because I don't know what can be so weird unless I had three penises growing out of my forehead but corny, ha, I know that and I embrace that.

I'm not trying to flame you or anything, but it annoys me when metalheads show that insecurity of being accepted yet they deny it and make people that aren't metalheads sound like they're a completely different species of humans. I know you said you started the thread off wrong by making it sound like a "use and them" situation (I just reread the thread and noticed you changed your wording so too late to change this rant eh?) but this message then is for those who actually feel like that then.

Really, I don't really have any problems dealing with people in the mainstream at work and university. I've never really had the problem of people judging me based on how I dress beyond middle school/high school and my parents. The high school issue solved itself by me leaving it, and the latter probably will never be solved when you're dealing with people who think that appearance is everything (even when you're not in the work place). But just ignore such comments/people and be on your way. The only thing I find with my interactions with the mainstream is I often have to be careful when making jokes or expressing certain things when dealing with people you might not want to offend. Sometimes one has to walk on eggshells a little if you're more used to dealing with metalheads, especially if you're like me and not the best with the whole tact thing.

I do, honestly, feel more comfortable around other metalheads, though I'm not about to shun somebody for not liking metal. Generally, like many others, I enjoy having friends with whom I have common interests, and those interests are typically metal, medieval history, literature/theory, philosophy, and martial arts. It just so happens that there are heck of a lot of metalheads interested in all of the above, which makes things convenient.

I know I'm going to single myself out and have thusly prepared for the reaction...I have Asperger's Syndrome.

It is inane, but I started this topic mainly for tips on interacting with non-metalheads peacefully, convincing them to look past musical tastes, and most importantly, to get the most out of them (be it in terms of interaction, etc.), which the majority, much to my dismay, don't look past them. Simultaneously, my awkwardness compounds the issue. I almost feel I have to take the "don't ask; don't tell" approach.

Just don't make a big deal out of metal when you're around them. They'll obviously feel uncomfortable if you're shouting "LEAVE THE HALL!" at them.

Has it occurred to you - the author of the OP - that maybe your feeling socially awkward may have to do with your being an introvert or a recluse and not so much with your being a metalhead? Try to look back on how you were before you started listening to metal - which should be easy unless you have been into metal since childhood or something. Were you really all that outgoing and friendly with people back then and then suddenly, poof! you are a metalhead, you can't deal with people on the same terms anymore. Doesn't sound logical to me. I have been an introvert for as long back as I can remember and I don't know that making small talk with people you have never met before is particularly important. That's not the way lasting relationships are forged, I have my clutch of close friends who go back a few years - all "non-metals" - and where my musical explorations have taken me has had no bearing on my friendship with them.

Unless you identify yourself with the music you listen to - which is quite retarded, in my opinion, perhaps less so if you are a professional musician, that much I can grant - it shouldn't come in the way of dealing with people. I am at ease in solitude but not given to be rude or unwelcoming to those who make conversation with me and am prepared to help when asked to and that's par for the course if you want to get on as a normal member of society.