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Miikja
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 167
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:30 pm 
 

Your help is highly appreciated. I'm recording three songs for a new EP, it should be out later this year. The title for this EP will be 'Een van ons', which translates from Dutch to 'One of us' in English. The phrase comes from a lyrical theme that has occupied my mind lately and deals with our interconnectedness. As people, but also with every living thing on this planet. So it doesn't really mean only one of us, but rather the one being the all and all being one. The idea is that we're all part of a global ecosystem and as such, interdependent.

To utilise this connection, I'm asking you, forum users, to translate the phrase 'one of us' into your own language and feed it back to me. If you speak several languages, even better. I will include as many translations as will fit on the cardboard panels. And yes, the idea is to bypass Google Translate and mine the combined linguistic intelligence of our global community instead.

Oh, and if you're fluent in a language that uses characters for words and concepts, I would love to know how the phrase is built up, what each segment represents.

You are welcome to submit your translations to info [at] akelei [dot] org
 - or -
Drop your translations in the comments below, like so:

Arabic: أحد مننا
Basque: gutariko bat
Bavarian: oăne vo uns
Belarusian: адна з нас
Bosnian: jedan od nas
Bulgarian: един от нас
Catalan: un de nosaltres
Croatian: jedan od nas
Czech: jedna z nás
Danish: en af os
Dutch: een van ons
English: one of us
Finnish: yksi meistä
French: un des nôtres
Frisian: ien fan ús
German: eine von uns
Greek: μία από μας
Hebrew: אֶחָד מֵאִתָּנוּ
Hungarian: egyikünk
Irish: ceann againn
Italian: uno di noi
Koine Greek: εἷς ἐξ ἡμῶν
Latin: unus ex nobis
Latvian: viena no mums
Mandarin: 我们之一
Maori: tētahi o tātou
Montenegrin: jedan od nas
Norwegian: en av oss
Nynorsk: ein av oss
Polish: jedna z nas
Portuguese: um dos nossos
Romanian: una dintre noi
Russian: одна из нас
Serbian: један од нас
Slovak: jedna z nás
Slovene: eden izmed nas
Spanish: uno de nosotros
Swahili: mmoja wetu
Swedish: en av oss
Swiss German: äinä vo üs
Ukranian: один з нас


Thank you for your time!
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Last edited by Miikja on Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:16 pm, edited 26 times in total.
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InnesI
The Goat Fucker

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 4:50 pm 
 

Swedish: En av oss
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Exister
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Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 8:06 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 5:13 pm 
 

Spanish: uno de nosotros
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Osore
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Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 5:13 pm 
 

Serbian (Cyr/Lat): један од нас / jedan od nas
Croatian/Bosnian/Montenegrin: jedan od nas

As you can see, this is the same language separated for political reasons.
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Miikja
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Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:36 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 5:44 pm 
 

Osore wrote:
Serbian (Cyr/Lat): један од нас / jedan od nas
Croatian/Bosnian/Montenegrin: jedan od nas

As you can see, this is the same language separated for political reasons.


Thanks, really interesting! I just read that those languages are all mutually intelligible. 'Jedan od nas' looks similar enough to my own language that I might have recognised it, actually.
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:10 pm 
 

French: un des nôtres

or

une des nôtres (feminine form)
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MDL
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 10:16 pm 
 

Portuguese: Um dos nossos

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Miikja
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 3:02 am 
 

Merci, obrigado!

Any (traditional) Chinese speakers? Mandarin, Cantonese, any Min?
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 4:29 am 
 

Swahili: Mmoja wetu

I'm not a native speaker but I'm fluent in the language.
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Miikja
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:26 am 
 

Cool, and 'Kila mmoja wetu' means 'every one of us', then?
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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 7:33 am 
 

German: einer von uns (masculine), eine von uns (feminine)

Bonus round in Bavarian: oăna vo uns (masculine), oăne vo uns (feminine)
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Osore
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
Posts: 519
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 7:37 am 
 

Miikja wrote:
Osore wrote:
Serbian (Cyr/Lat): један од нас / jedan od nas
Croatian/Bosnian/Montenegrin: jedan od nas

As you can see, this is the same language separated for political reasons.


Thanks, really interesting! I just read that those languages are all mutually intelligible. 'Jedan od nas' looks similar enough to my own language that I might have recognised it, actually.


Yes, we all understand each other perfectly. There is also a female form: једнa од нас / jedna od nas.

I used translator for these, pretty sure they are correct, especially the first and the last word. They are all Slavic languages and similarities are noticable. I guess the female form would be една for Macedonian and Bulgarian, edna for Slovenian, одна for Russian and Ukranian and jedna for Czech, Slovak and Polish. Native speakers, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Macedonian: еден од нас.
Bulgarian: един от нас.
Slovenian: eden izmed nas.
Russian: один из нас.
Ukranian: один з нас.
Czech: jeden z nás.
Slovak: jeden z nás.
Polish: jeden z nas.

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DecemberSoul
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 7:41 am 
 

Swiss German, three variants thereof: "Äinä vo üs", "Äinä vo öis" and "Äinä vo ois"
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 8:49 am 
 

It really depends on what you want to say in Spanish. "Uno de nosotros" is a very literal translation almost devoid of meaning but "uno de los nuestros" has a stronger message. "Uno de nosotros" means "one of us" as in "one of us knows how to speak Spanish", "one of us is tall enough to reach that obect", "one of us doesn't like metal", etc. It doesn't really mean anything else besides what it literally says. "Uno de los nuestros" on the other hand means some belonging to a community, a group of people, etc. The mafia film Goodfellas was translated as "Uno de los nuestros" in Spanish, that will probably give you a lot more context on the difference between the two forms.

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Miikja
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:01 pm 
 

I fixed the Spanish translation, thanks Gravetemplar. Absolutely right, some meaning was lost in that translation there.

About the Swiss German, is 'äinä' a noun that must be capitalised? I'll go with all lower case if I can but I want to follow grammar rules.

@Osore, thanks for looking those up! I will add them to the list as soon as some native speakers give the okay.
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Azmodes
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:17 pm 
 

Miikja wrote:
About the Swiss German, is 'äinä' a noun that must be capitalised?

If we're applying Standard German capitalization rules, then it's not capitalized in this case.
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 12:43 pm 
 

Miikja wrote:
Cool, and 'Kila mmoja wetu' means 'every one of us', then?


Yeah sure for the emphasis
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 1:09 pm 
 

I would change the Spanish one to: "Uno de nosotros". I think it's more accurate. "Uno de los nuestros" carry a rather different meaning.
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Miikja
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 2:33 pm 
 

Thanks for the input. How would you explain the difference in meaning between these two translations? What I understand from Gravetemplar is that 'uno de nosotros' explicitly means '(only) one of us', and 'uno de los nuestros' indicates that the one is part of the us. I'm looking for the second meaning.
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Napero
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 3:12 pm 
 

Finnish: yksi meistä
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Methuen
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2021 4:14 pm 
 

Contribution from my wife - The Irish "duine againn féin anois é" - literally 'he is one of us now', but the implication is the same as 'one of us' in short.

My contribution - Latin - 'unus ex nobis', from Genesis 3:22 - "Ecce Adam quasi unus ex nobis", translates "Behold, the man is become as one of us" - the context being 'one the same as God in knowledge of good & evil '.
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PieDirsas
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 3:58 am 
 

Latvian: viens no mums (masculine) viena no mums (feminine)

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Z0MBIE
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 5:03 am 
 

Danish: en af os
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gasmask_colostomy
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:42 am 
 

Mandarin Chinese wouldn't give you a simple translation, but here are 2 different versions (with help from my wife, who's a native):
我们之一 (wo men zhi yi) = Something like "We are together", emphasizing unity
我们当中 (wo men dang zhong) = Literally "Amongst us", emphasizing position
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Thiestru
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:40 pm 
 

Arabic: أحد مننا
(Ahed minna)
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 1:12 pm 
 

Miikja wrote:
Thanks for the input. How would you explain the difference in meaning between these two translations? What I understand from Gravetemplar is that 'uno de nosotros' explicitly means '(only) one of us', and 'uno de los nuestros' indicates that the one is part of the us. I'm looking for the second meaning.


"Uno de nosotros" is a literal translation from "one of us", no "onliness" implied. I'd translate "Uno de los nuestros" as "One of ours".
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Miikja
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 4:27 pm 
 

Thanks again for the brilliant input! 22 translations and counting.

I've changed the Spanish phrase back to 'uno de nosotros'. That seems to be closer to the idea.
Chinese is tricky. Neither of those options says what I mean but I'm going with 'wo men zhi yi'. Google Translate (had to check) actually says that means 'one of us'...
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:04 pm 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
Miikja wrote:
Thanks for the input. How would you explain the difference in meaning between these two translations? What I understand from Gravetemplar is that 'uno de nosotros' explicitly means '(only) one of us', and 'uno de los nuestros' indicates that the one is part of the us. I'm looking for the second meaning.


"Uno de nosotros" is a literal translation from "one of us", no "onliness" implied. I'd translate "Uno de los nuestros" as "One of ours".

Not really. "One of us" means "a person recognized as an accepted member of a particular group, typically one that is exclusive in some way". I just searched it. "Uno de nosotros" doesn't have any connotation of belonging to a group of people. It's one of those phrases you can't translate literally because you lose the meaning meaning.

Again, the mafia film Goodfellas was translated as "Uno de los nuestros" because "los nuestros" means "people who are from the same party, family, profession or nature of the one who speaks". In this case, the group of people is the Mafia. "Nosotros" = "us" VS. "los nuestros" = those people are a part of something. You can look it up in the dictionary:

Quote:
Spanish official dictionary: https://dle.rae.es/nuestro
los nuestros
1. m. pl. Personas que son del mismo partido, familia, profesión o naturaleza del que habla = people who are from the same party, family, profession or nature of the one who speaks.

"One of us" = "a person recognized as an accepted member of a particular group, typically one that is exclusive in some way" -> "people who are from the same party, family, profession or nature of the one who speaks" = "personas que son del mismo partido, familia, profesión o naturaleza del que habla" = los nuestros.

Now, I don't know what the idea by the OP is but "one of us" has a very specific meaning in English according to Oxford's Dictionary https://www.lexico.com/definition/one_of_us and Macmillan agrees: https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dic ... /one-of-us

Does "een van ons" also has a connotation of belonging to a group like English does? In that case the correct translation is "uno de los nuestros". If "een van ons" doesn't mean what "one of us" means in English then Miikja is in a bit of a problem.

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Miikja
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:25 pm 
 

In Dutch, depending on the context, 'een van ons' can mean '(only) one of us' or 'one of ours' in which 'one' can also refer to an object. For example: 'Die plaat is er een van ons' ('That record is one of ours'). You see what I did there, with the third interpretation, but I mostly want the title to convey the second meaning, as in 'one of the group', but with the group being limited only to the Earth's borders, if that makes sense. That still makes it exclusive in some way, and so it's in line with both the English and Spanish definitions Gravetemplar provided above. Thanks for doing the research, by the way! I do want to get it right and it's great that you're thinking along. This shows how messy translations can be. One concept might not even exist in one language and be totally normal in another. The list of translations will be a work in progress as I gain more insight in the various ways to interpret and translate these three words. I have some colleagues from different Spanish-speaking countries and I will run both translations by them tomorrow to see what they think.

On a sidenote, and to illustrate, I like how in the story of Everything Is Illuminated one character tries to explain the concept of 'inside out' but gives up halfway, thinking the other doesn't understand him anyway. The other character later sees what can be meant by 'inside out', albeit a different meaning.
Quote:
Everything is illuminated in the light of the past. It is always along the side of us, on the inside looking out. Like you say, inside out.

Spoiler: show
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 8:11 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Not really. "One of us" means "a person recognized as an accepted member of a particular group, typically one that is exclusive in some way".


Where do you get these definitions from? "Uno de nosotros" is the literal translation of "One of us", as plain and generic as that, no implied meanings of any kind.

Quote:
I just searched it. "Uno de nosotros" doesn't have any connotation of belonging to a group of people. It's one of those phrases you can't translate literally because you lose the meaning meaning.


I agree with the first part, no connotations of belonging within that phrase. I will have to disagree with the latter though, it is a phrase you can translate literally and it means "One of us"

Quote:
Again, the mafia film Goodfellas was translated as "Uno de los nuestros" because "los nuestros" means "people who are from the same party, family, profession or nature of the one who speaks". In this case, the group of people is the Mafia. "Nosotros" = "us" VS. "los nuestros" = those people are a part of something. You can look it up in the dictionary:

Quote:
Spanish official dictionary: https://dle.rae.es/nuestro
los nuestros
1. m. pl. Personas que son del mismo partido, familia, profesión o naturaleza del que habla = people who are from the same party, family, profession or nature of the one who speaks.

"One of us" = "a person recognized as an accepted member of a particular group, typically one that is exclusive in some way" -> "people who are from the same party, family, profession or nature of the one who speaks" = "personas que son del mismo partido, familia, profesión o naturaleza del que habla" = los nuestros.


I think I found the mistake behind your reasoning. You see, the word "nuestro" can function as a possessive adjective ("us" in English) or as a noun (the pronoun"ours" in English). The definition you found is related to the noun form, not the possessive adjective, hence the different translation.

So, to sum it up:

One of us: Uno de nosotros (translation as literal as it gets)
One of ours: Uno de los nuestros (same as the above)
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Methuen
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 4:33 am 
 

Thoroughly enjoying the discussion on Spanish language - Latin has a lot to answer for :lol:
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 4:39 am 
 

Greek:

Enas apo emas or enas apo mas, masculine form (mas or emas is the same thing, pronounced Eh-nas ah-PO mas/eh-MAS)
Mia apo emas or mia apo mas (feminine form, pronounced mEE-ah).
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:55 am 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
Gravetemplar wrote:
Not really. "One of us" means "a person recognized as an accepted member of a particular group, typically one that is exclusive in some way".


Where do you get these definitions from? "Uno de nosotros" is the literal translation of "One of us", as plain and generic as that, no implied meanings of any kind.

I got them from the Oxford Dictionary https://www.lexico.com/definition/one_of_us and the Macmillan Dictionary https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dic ... /one-of-us It was on my original post.

The OP already clarified the literal translation is not what he's looking for by the way:

Miikja wrote:
I mostly want the title to convey the second meaning, as in 'one of the group', but with the group being limited only to the Earth's borders, if that makes sense. That still makes it exclusive in some way, and so it's in line with both the English and Spanish definitions Gravetemplar provided above.

Thexhumed wrote:
I think I found the mistake behind your reasoning. You see, the word "nuestro" can function as a possessive adjective ("us" in English) or as a noun (the pronoun"ours" in English). The definition you found is related to the noun form, not the possessive adjective, hence the different translation.

So, to sum it up:

One of us: Uno de nosotros (translation as literal as it gets)
One of ours: Uno de los nuestros (same as the above)

Look, I don't mean to be rude but you just keep saying over and over "uno de nosotros" is the literal translation and the one that should be used but you are just ignoring context and avoiding to do further research into any of the things that I have already posted. Miikja isn't looking for the literal translation. "One of us" without any further context means "a person recognized as an accepted member of a particular group, typically one that is exclusive in some way".

From what I've gathered, "one of us" in this context is used as a catchphrase. I think that's the meaning the OP is trying to get here. Catchphrases can't be translated literally because the meaning is lost. You can't translate "cágate lorito" as "shit yourself little parrot". It has no meaning. The correct translation you would have to use is "holy shit". It's the same in Spanish, you can't translate "holy shit" as "mierda santa" (at least here where I live).

The correct translation of that particular catchphrase ("one of us") in Spanish is "uno de los nuestros". Again, it's another catchphrase and not the literal translation. Why? Because if you want to translate the part about "a person recognized as an accepted member of a particular group, typically one that is exclusive in some way" you need to use "los nuestros". I already posted it and you completely ignored it but you can find "los nuestros" in the RAE here: https://dle.rae.es/nuestro and it means "people who are from the same party, family, profession or nature of the one who speaks". It has nothing to do with adjectives or pronouns, it's a catchphrase. It's not literal. By using "los nuestros" you are adding another layer of meaning, implying the person in question is from the same group, in this case, a very big group but still a group. Here's an example from a movie:

https://context.reverso.net/translation ... s+nuestros

Mi Viejo es uno de los nuestros -> The Old Man is one of us

In this example, "mi viejo" (my father, the old man) is aligned with us. He is a part of our group, he's "one of our guys", "one of our own". If we were at a political film about how the state kidnapped the union chief and the workers are all in the street saying "we won't forget him, he's one of us" and then they start chanting "ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!" the translation would be "¡UNO DE LOS NUESTROS! ¡UNO DE LOS NUESTROS!".

RAE (the Royal Spanish Academy) has already kind of responded to this on their Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/raeinforma/status/1 ... 6336278528

QUESTION: If "we" includes a group of men and women, but I want to refer to a woman who belongs to that group, she is "una de nosotros" or "uno de nosotros"?
ANSWER: The most grammatically appropriate construction is the one that does not manifest gender discordance between the indefinite and the nucleus of the partitive complement: "uno de los nuestros", "una de las nuestras".

The question is gender related but please note how the academy corrects the person doing the question that the correct use when there's a group of people is "uno de los nuestros" (or "una de las nuestras" in it's feminine form").

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DecemberSoul
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 7:58 am 
 

Miikja wrote:
Azmodes wrote:
Miikja wrote:
About the Swiss German, is 'äinä' a noun that must be capitalised?

If we're applying Standard German capitalization rules, then it's not capitalized in this case.


About the Swiss German, is 'äinä' a noun that must be capitalised? I'll go with all lower case if I can but I want to follow grammar rules.


Well, there are no grammar rules for Swiss German. Albeit it being an official language, it isn't used in offical documents - that's what we've got Standard German for, for which there is a whole body of grammar rules.
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Miikja
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:49 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Greek:

Enas apo emas or enas apo mas, masculine form (mas or emas is the same thing, pronounced Eh-nas ah-PO mas/eh-MAS)
Mia apo emas or mia apo mas (feminine form, pronounced mEE-ah).


Hi Vic, can you type these in Greek letters? Thanks!

About the Spanish translation: Gravetemplar's arguments are pretty solid. But two of my colleagues (one from Chile, one from Argentina) today independently and after giving it some thought, opted for 'uno de nosotros'. So I'm torn between the two options for the moment. I will leave both translations in the list, with a slight preference for 'los nuestros'.

I also got another Irish translation today: ceann againn (something like 'one of our heads'). That seems to be more along the line of what I'm looking for.
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Methuen
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 11:30 am 
 

Depending on how niche you want to go - these are the same source as my Latin, realised I still had these squirelled away too.

Ancient Hebrew - כְּאַחַ֣ד מִמֶּ֔נּוּ - literally "alike one of us", (read from right to left) if that's the idiom you're after.

Koine Greek (not the modern kind) - ως εις εξ ημων - literally 'as one of us', in the same context as the above.
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BlackFlag
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 1:55 pm 
 

Catalan: "Un de nosaltres"

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Miikja
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 3:15 pm 
 

Thanks for the Catalan translation, I was hoping for that one.

Methuen, good stuff, though I want to include only living languages, making one exception for Latin, probably. Oh and Quenya (any speakers?)
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 6:18 am 
 

Miikja wrote:
Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Greek:

Enas apo emas or enas apo mas, masculine form (mas or emas is the same thing, pronounced Eh-nas ah-PO mas/eh-MAS)
Mia apo emas or mia apo mas (feminine form, pronounced mEE-ah).


Hi Vic, can you type these in Greek letters? Thanks!


Sure thing!

Ένας από εμάς / Ένας από μας (masculine) or ένας if you want to lose the capital E.
Μία από εμάς / Μία από μας (feminine) or μία respectively.

And since I saw the Koine Greek, which is actually more in use than Latin, since all Greek churches globally use it in the liturgy, plus the bible (NT and the Septuagint) is written in it:
What Methuen said but with the extra sexy stress marks: εἷς ἐξ ἡμῶν ("one of us", comes from Genesis, Adam has become like one of us, knowing good and evil etc)
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Miikja
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 10:39 am 
 

Added! Cheers!
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