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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11773
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:51 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
"Natural" is a good word for it. The whole package also felt like that, all the parts very well integrated into each other. Equal levels plot, world building, character stuff, action and eye candy, all working together.

Spoiler: show
huh, alright then. Still, I was expecting something less draconic from the Federation (okay, technically it's Starfleet).

Spoiler: show
Well I assume a Federation "prison" is nothing like our modern prisons, probably some sort of monitored but relatively open community on a remote planet, but the previews for the next episodes indicate Michael isn't going to regular prison anyway.


darkeningday wrote:
Ted 1 made 10x its budget back and is still the most successful comedy of all time. None of his films was a box office bomb. Family Guy is entering its 16th season this year, second only to The Simpsons for FOX.

Yeah, that's how TV has pretty much always worked - one or two jackpots make up for a bunch of losses, and if you've proven you can hit the jackpot, you'll always get another chance to try.
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Erotetic
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:05 pm
Posts: 1367
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:46 am 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
But the guy has such a string of garbage following him around, I don't really understand why he keeps getting work. The odds consistently seem to be against him making something successful, and even more against quality output.


yeh. but I bet if you did the math there would be as many terrible simpsons episodes as terrible episodes of everything Seth has done.
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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:35 am 
 

Erotetic wrote:
Resident_Hazard wrote:
But the guy has such a string of garbage following him around, I don't really understand why he keeps getting work. The odds consistently seem to be against him making something successful, and even more against quality output.


yeh. but I bet if you did the math there would be as many terrible simpsons episodes as terrible episodes of everything Seth has done.

I mean, have there ever been any indisputably classic Family Guy episodes, that were brilliant from beginning-to-end? Because that the case for season 3-12 of the simpsons, with only the rarest of exceptions.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:18 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I mean, have there ever been any indisputably classic Family Guy episodes, that were brilliant from beginning-to-end? Because that the case for season 3-12 of the simpsons, with only the rarest of exceptions.

The entirety of Seasons 1-3. And a handful from 4-6. And "Road to the Multiverse."
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Resident_Hazard
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Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:50 am 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
I mean, have there ever been any indisputably classic Family Guy episodes, that were brilliant from beginning-to-end? Because that the case for season 3-12 of the simpsons, with only the rarest of exceptions.

The entirety of Seasons 1-3. And a handful from 4-6. And "Road to the Multiverse."


Seasons 1-2 are largely the worst for Family Guy. The show hadn't found it's voice yet, and the vast majority of the plots were shamelessly filled with standard sitcom tropes when it wasn't just ripping off The Simpsons. For the most part, it was just hollow been-there-done-that sitcom writing: Set-up stupid premise, jokes and misadventure, back-to-normal conclusion. Dad watches football. Daughter worries about being popular. Mom is an understanding housewife. Fucking yawn.

The first couple seasons of American Dad were the same way in the "let's teach the crotchety Archie Bunker type lessons from progressives." When Family Guy does character studies or goes on full-blown 80's style movie adventures, the show can be a lot of fun. When American Dad ditched the Neo-Archie Bunker elements and became more of a science-fiction/CIA/mythology comedy with continuing arcs, it got a lot better.

I would argue, however, that these are the results of showrunners and writing staff, not really direct input from McFarlane himself. When we see "actual" Set McFarlane stories, we get stuff like The Orville (at least from what I've read, the synopsis and complaints sound very much like the obviously-him parts of FG and AD), where McFarlane wants to celebrate some thing he grew up with, but he wants to do it with his toilet jokes and edgelord gross-out humor.

Sort of the way that Chris Carter created the X-Files, but the best parts of the X-Files pretty much never came from him. Seth McFarlane created these shows, but they survive despite him, not because of him.

Offhand, I'd personally put two Family Guy episodes near "television classics" territory: The one where Brian and Stewie were stuck in a bank vault overnight and the one where the family was stuck inside during a storm and Meg finally stood up for herself and Brian was tripping on shrooms. Those had some really solid writing and showed a depth to the story potential and characters not usually seen on the show.


As an aside:
The Simpsons has been on a downward spiral for a long time, slow though it may be. I don't know what could revive it. All I know is that any recent episodes I've seen have generally just been "meh" overall, like the show has simply run out of steam. I really think it was better when the animation was rougher and the show demanded clever writing to make up for it. I've joked before that the decline of The Simpsons started when Futurama was made, because Matt Groening took all the good writers and ideas with him. Futurama remained consistently strong throughout it's troubled run. I think when they hit 30 seasons, they should gracefully bow out, having reached a milestone few shows could ever match. Then I'll get the $1000 all-seasons Blu-Ray set that'll come out after that.
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Smalley
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:06 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:06 pm 
 

I've recently come to the conclusion that Family Guy would be generally better regarded today if Fox hadn't cancelled it temporarily, and had just allowed it to run its course until the present; not that that would've fixed every problem the show's had historically, or improve the weaker recent seasons, but, like a certain other adult animated sitcom out there, FG hadn't yet 100% found its individual voice as a show during its first 3 seasons, but you can still see it steadily getting better and better throughout that first era, but it got canned before it had officially reached its "golden age" as a series... and then when it returned, it was like any other show that was past its prime. Seth & Co. acted like nothing had happened, and doubled down on their worst tendencies (the pointless, gratuitous cutaways, the bad taste for the sake of bad taste gags, the general "fuck you" moral attitude) because they thought all of that was what kept the show alive in syndication, instead of their genuinely funny, clever, guilty pleasure material.

It was like the show had creatively fastforwarded 3 years like it had been on the whole time and they had already used all of their best material, except that isn't what happened! It's like if that other animated sitcom had been cancelled after its 3rd season, and had come back a couple years later, but instead of getting their normal Season 4 episodes, we instead started getting the Season 10 eps, and then just proceeded on normally from there. I mean, FG was never as good, and was going to get as good as that certain other show, but I would still be interested in peering into an alternate dimension where those 3 "what if" seasons were never lost forever to the ages, and we could see the show really live up to its full potential, y'know?
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miskatonic79
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:01 pm 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
To detract from the Lynch loving, I'm going to talk Science Fiction shows.

My son and I are nearly done watching all of Stargate SG-1. Previously, we watched MacGyver, Star Trek: TNG, Star Trek: DS9, and Stranger Things together.

We're not sure what to watch next, but I already feel that impending emptiness/sadness that you get when a great long-running series finally comes to a close. Like, yeah, those last seasons of SG-1 aren't as strong without Richard Dean Anderson and the Ori arc ramps up too high too quickly, but still, the ending leaves a vacancy in your life. I felt the same way then TNG ends or the X-Files, which I've previously watched in their entirety twice.

Stargate SG-1 is simply one of the best science fiction shows ever made. Amazing characters, fun and widely varied stories. It strikes equal chords of intelligent writing, thoughtful writing, character development, thrilling moments, dramatic moments, and comedic pieces. It's rare for any TV show to hit this all and succeed, but SG-1 did it almost perfectly, as did the X-Files. TNG came close, but frequently fell flat on humor until later seasons. DS9 was much stronger with comedic pieces.

Not looking forward to SG-1 ending (again), but totally looking forward to the next series I introduce to my son. I'm thinking X-Files, which has a new 11th season coming up.


SG-1 is pretty damn massive, where would you suggest I start? I remember watching the first few seasons back in HS, but it's been twenty years!
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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 5:28 pm 
 

miskatonic79 wrote:
SG-1 is pretty damn massive, where would you suggest I start? I remember watching the first few seasons back in HS, but it's been twenty years!


Man, don't even ask that question about SG1. Yeah there's a lot of material if you go through it from start to finish, but it's worth it. The first season, unlike the first seasons of many other long-running shows, certainly has more than its share of the best episodes: "Cold Lazarus", "Thor's Hammer", "The Torment of Tantalus", "Fire and Water", "Singularity", "Cor Ai" ... all classics, showing off the show's unmatched mixture of adventure, emotion and character development.
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MikeyC
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:46 pm 
 

Re: Family Guy. The show is total crap and would have done so much better without the annoying cutaways that really aren't that funny, anyway. No surprise, then, that Family Guy really only has one amazing episode:
Resident_Hazard wrote:
The one where Brian and Stewie were stuck in a bank vault overnight

As garbage as the show is, this episode rivals the best episode of any adult animation. If they stuck to this, it would've been so much better.


Resident_Hazard wrote:
As an aside:
The Simpsons has been on a downward spiral for a long time, slow though it may be. I don't know what could revive it. All I know is that any recent episodes I've seen have generally just been "meh" overall, like the show has simply run out of steam. I really think it was better when the animation was rougher and the show demanded clever writing to make up for it. I've joked before that the decline of The Simpsons started when Futurama was made, because Matt Groening took all the good writers and ideas with him. Futurama remained consistently strong throughout it's troubled run. I think when they hit 30 seasons, they should gracefully bow out, having reached a milestone few shows could ever match. Then I'll get the $1000 all-seasons Blu-Ray set that'll come out after that.

I think they said they wanted to make 30 seasons and then call it quits. So end of next year or start of 2019 will see the end of The Simpsons.

In terms of the show running out of steam, I can understand that. Having said that, I'm in the very small minority that actually likes the new episodes. Sure, not all of them are winners, but when I watch a modern episode, I'm entertained and I do laugh, which is basically all I want from the show. I haven't watched a full season since about 17 or so, so like you I want to get the $1,000 box set once it's all done.

I also agree that Futurama was a superior show. Some of the best episodes of anything ever are contained in there. Plus the movies worked for me, too. Sucks it got cancelled but there's still plenty of great episodes to go back to.
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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:10 am 
 

yeah, just start at the beginning with SG-1. It's worth the ride.

Latest episode of Halt & Catch Fire...damn.
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Erotetic
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:51 am 
 

MikeyC wrote:
Resident_Hazard wrote:
The one where Brian and Stewie were stuck in a bank vault overnight

As garbage as the show is, this episode rivals the best episode of any adult animation. If they stuck to this, it would've been so much better.


wow, this is garbage. half way through it... after 10 minutes of shiteating it's still shit. aaaaaaaand the last half is nothing but shitty musicals. what the hell?
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:00 am 
 

Anyone else watching AMERICAN VANDAL?

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MARSDUDE
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:17 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:55 pm 
 

Nathan For You has returned for a fourth season. The special and season premiere were both fantastic and hilarious. This season seems like it'll be so over-the-top.

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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:57 pm 
 

Currently at episode 13 of the third season of Twin Peaks and this is something else...

I am a huge fan of the original series and the movie and this new season is so completely different of what I was expecting/hoping. I miss the charm and off-beat goofiness of the old TP, but damn... what we have here is some pure fucking Lynch masterpiece. It's truly its own beast, with lots of nods and references to what took place before. And yes, ep 08 was insane. Fucking woodsmen!
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Erotetic
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:37 am 
 

running out of shows to marathon I finally started watching Sherlock.

enjoyed s01e01 and s02e01, the rest were just ok.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:41 am 
 

Although the overall impression of Star Trek: Discovery from both here and the majority of critics was overwhelmingly positive, The Internet and self-proclaimed "longtime Star Trek fans" seemed quite a bit more negative, though it's difficult to tell how many of these are actual people who actually care about Star Trek and how many are socks created by butthurts who need to inform everyone of The Correct Opinion (see: IMDB's user reviews). While probably around 40% of the people who dislike the show are your expected bog standard Alt-right and Alt-lite morons to whom the words "diversity" and "multiculturalism" cause them to crop up as reliably as Pavlov's bell, I'd say that the other 60% seem to hate the series for slightly less-retarded reasons. After reading these, I rewatched the pilot(s?) and... well, there are a few problems (Discovery e1 and e2 spoilers)

Spoiler: show
The concept of a Vulcan Hello is pretty lame, and it would neither have caused nor prevented a war by being executed, right? Why would Michael destroy her 7-year friendship with her beloved captain and her entire career in starfleet (which, before now, displayed an exemplary record) to do something that she had no evidence that it would do anything at all? I could have accepted this momentary lapse of judgement if in the second episode she hadn't somehow managed to fuck up even worse: the ENTIRE REASON she beamed aboard the Klingon ship was to capture (and preserve the life of) the head Klingon. She says this several times, just to drill it into our heads and her captain's. So she goes over to the Klingon ship with the very captain who just threw her in the brig, the Klingon leader stabs her in the heart and Michael switches her phaser from stun to kill and successfully nullifies the sacrifice of the captain by doing exactly what SHE HERSELF said not to do. It didn't ruin the episode, and my original opinion still stands, but it does make her character random and crazy, which isn't very good writing imho. I also didn't like the bit where the bridge officer stumbles into the brig thinking it's the infirmary because he had a concussion and then gets blown out into space; it was just totally pointless and Drama for the sake of Drama.

Tonight's Star Trek (god, it feels good to say that again) was really good, though I didn't like (spoilers for e3):

Spoiler: show
The Klingon "shushing" everyone and the silly giant monster attack and ensuing escape. While it still felt like a Star Trek episode, it felt like one of those Brannon Braga Voyager episodes where he tried to ape popular movie trends of the time, rather than a really good Trek episode.

Still though, good stuff. And the legion of people screaming The Orville is 1000x the better Star Trek series can eat a dick.
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MikeyC
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:40 am 
 

Erotetic wrote:
wow, this is garbage. half way through it... after 10 minutes of shiteating it's still shit. aaaaaaaand the last half is nothing but shitty musicals. what the hell?

Can't please everyone. :)
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Napero
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Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:27 am 
 

OK, I admit: I yielded to the kids' whining a few months ago, and subscribed to Netflix. I've been avoiding it and its kind for a long time, but as the price nowadays is pretty reasonable, I finally said yes. Of course, I've been watching stuff myself, too, but I'm not too crazy about it, really.

While Cosmos is a nice documentary, and Tyson explains climate change in a compelling way there, it still held very little in the way of new ideas to me. Rick and Morty is amusing in small dosages, and I did essentially wade through the whole House of Cards, mostly when enjoying a flu. Nothing spectacular there, and boy, does House of Cards plod along too slowly! Like, crap! nice setting, nice characters, but simply too much to wade through, really.

But what I really find annoying are the series the thing keeps suggesting to me. I do remember the renaissance of TV back in the day, starting with stuff like The X Files and Babylon 5, when the 80's formula and static universe and single episode ideology were shattered by a new long-term story arcs, but now it has turned on itself. I mean, the series, be it the Brazilian 3% or Designated Survivor or the lousy The Mist, they all seem to follow an annoying template: they all start with a first episode that sets half a dozen "eerie" or "ominous" story arcs, and you can easily and safely bet your ass that only three or four of them get resolved in the first season. They always leave stuff for later, probably just to have a better chance of getting a contract for a second and third and so on season. It's a self-defeating idea: there's a template on how to be surprising and engaging, and to be honest, it does not work on me. Stock characters, the same way of introducing the plots, the same holding back of information, just to have continuity beyond the first season. And I hate it. I never felt any desire to watch Lost and its ilk for this reason alone, for example.

What I'd love to see a revival of the concept of miniseries, really. Four to six tightly packed episodes, with everything resolved in the end, without the never-ending quest for maximum number of episodes to be produced. That's one of the secondary reasons why I love Game of Thrones, BTW, I know it's going to end at some point. But a miniseries could well condense a well written plot into an enjoyable bunch, without a need to prolong it to unnecessary lengths by adding a dose of idle chatter, needless character interactions and intrigue, and generally watering it down. If you have a good story, and you can't tell it in six hours, it's highly unlikely it can be engaging enough for me to waste my precious life on it. And with people watching the stuff when they feel like instead of any primetime crap and fixed slots on the daily programming, the length of the series should not play a role, really.

A good miniseries is always worthy. As an example, out of the annoying and LGBTQHTRHXXZ-obsessed Torchwood material, the four episodes of Children of the Earth is a concise and very functional little source of joy. No watering down, no meaningless sub-plots, just the story and its conclusion. Now, make that in a setting and with characters meant to be one-shot, disposable items, avoid hinting at deeper secrets and alluding to things, and keep it straightforward, and you can actually tell an engaging story to me. I did enjoy the first season of True Detective for the same reason, and it worked in the slightly longer format, because it was obvious that the thing would get solved in the final episode; and since the mystery itself was hardly the point of the whole series, it was quite fine.

But yes, nothing is too bad to have no redeeming qualities: if you have Netflix, try Norsemen for a bit of Scandinavian comedy. I liked it, and I haven't even watched Vikings...
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Erotetic
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:19 am 
 

Napero wrote:
While Cosmos is a nice documentary, and Tyson explains climate change in a compelling way there, it still held very little in the way of new ideas to me.


yeh, I think the whole idea is that it's basically an intro course for people who are unlikely to ever attend college or read a book, or for kids who aren't yet old enough to do that.
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Napero
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:21 pm 
 

Well, it certainly works in that respect. And it's quite nicely made.
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CoconutBackwards
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:59 am 
 

30 Rock is Top 5 comedies all time for me and they just yanked it off Netflix the other day.

I will be subscribing to Hulu now that they've announced it landed over there.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:20 pm 
 

Waited for Season 3 of Rick and Morty to finish so I could binge-watch it. Well, the day finally came, and it was worth the wait. Can't wait for Season 4 (so freeze me now and thaw me when it comes out).
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:33 pm 
 

What did everyone think of the R&M season finale anyway?

I thought it was good - the comedic plot was a bit standard, but

Spoiler: show
The end, with the family sort of grounding themselves and turning on Rick a bit, was a welcome change... nice to have some comeuppance for Rick and it's a good way to shake things up. Audacious and surprising.
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Smoking_Gnu
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:52 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
What did everyone think of the R&M season finale anyway?

I thought it was good - the comedic plot was a bit standard, but

Spoiler: show
The end, with the family sort of grounding themselves and turning on Rick a bit, was a welcome change... nice to have some comeuppance for Rick and it's a good way to shake things up. Audacious and surprising.


Spoiler: show
That was a good plot in theory, but it really felt like they forgot to include anything season finale-worthy in the episode and just crammed it into the last five minutes. That made the character development seem really out of left-field compared to the other episodes that spent more time setting up the character-driven story arcs. Maybe the incredible Season 2 finale just spoiled me, but I was pretty underwhelmed. Ah well, there were still a lot of great episodes this season on the whole.

I've heard there were supposed to be 14 episodes this season but they ran into scheduling issues at the last minute and had to end it with this one, which would definitely explain things.
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Turner
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:41 am 
 

RE new Star Trek: just watched the first two episodes and while they're pretty good action-wise, I have a feeling this entire series is going to be based around this particular scenario/s and won't do what I really want from Star Trek (or any sci-fi TV series): monster-of-the-week episodes set in space/on other planets, hilariously improbable dystopian societies, totally out there but thought-provoking escapism, and a recurring larger story arc (read: every few episodes, like TNG did with Q and the Borg, or the X-Files, or SG-1's Goa'uld/Ori stuff). I actively want campy shit like the holodeck episodes, Data's Sherlock Holmes character (and the butler from the nanny gaining sentience... that was genuinely good sci-fi) etc, but I'd say this series is going to be all dumb action and clunky 2010s US race-relations parallels for the "ain't never read the books but we sure done watched Game of Thrones for the tits and fighting woo hoo!" crowd.

edit: ok so pretty much all the IMDB reviews of it say about the same as what I wrote heh.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:51 am 
 

IMDB is stocked to the gills with alt-right leaning contrarian edgelords (most of them coming from 4chan) with 5 or 6 alt accounts each to make it seem like their opinions are somehow representative of the public's opinion. The situation got so bad, IMDB had to shut down their entire message board because of it. You shouldn't take any review written there without a pillar of salt. 4chan went to war with Discovery because of the erroneous and ridiculous "forced diversitity" and "anti-Trump" claims' based on a couple of off-hand comments by the cast and crew. Their complaints have very little to do with the actual show itself.

If you want to see what real Star Trek fans thought of Discovery, I'd read the review by Zack Handlen for The AV Club and Trekcore.com's review. I'd also suggest peaking into the comments' section of both.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:44 am 
 

Smoking_Gnu wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
What did everyone think of the R&M season finale anyway?

I thought it was good - the comedic plot was a bit standard, but

Spoiler: show
The end, with the family sort of grounding themselves and turning on Rick a bit, was a welcome change... nice to have some comeuppance for Rick and it's a good way to shake things up. Audacious and surprising.


Spoiler: show
That was a good plot in theory, but it really felt like they forgot to include anything season finale-worthy in the episode and just crammed it into the last five minutes. That made the character development seem really out of left-field compared to the other episodes that spent more time setting up the character-driven story arcs. Maybe the incredible Season 2 finale just spoiled me, but I was pretty underwhelmed. Ah well, there were still a lot of great episodes this season on the whole.

I've heard there were supposed to be 14 episodes this season but they ran into scheduling issues at the last minute and had to end it with this one, which would definitely explain things.


Spoiler: show
Yeah that's fair and all... they spent a bit too much time on the Rick versus the President thing. I liked how they sort of pulled the rug out from under you with the end - Morty being hesitant about Rick during the episode was building up to it - but yeah, they could've spent more time on the dramatic part of it as they did last season.
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Turner
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:25 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
IMDB is stocked to the gills with alt-right leaning contrarian edgelords (most of them coming from 4chan) with 5 or 6 alt accounts each to make it seem like their opinions are somehow representative of the public's opinion. The situation got so bad, IMDB had to shut down their entire message board because of it. You shouldn't take any review written there without a pillar of salt. 4chan went to war with Discovery because of the erroneous and ridiculous "forced diversitity" and "anti-Trump" claims' based on a couple of off-hand comments by the cast and crew. Their complaints have very little to do with the actual show itself.

If you want to see what real Star Trek fans thought of Discovery, I'd read the review by Zack Handlen for The AV Club and Trekcore.com's review. I'd also suggest peaking into the comments' section of both.


ah look I can see how the alt-right would tear this apart (although... anti-Trump?), but honestly.... anyone saying this doesn't have the same spirit as TOS or TNG is viewing it through the same lense as me, whatever else you might want to say about them. No doubt there will also be people who think it's fantastic, but I can pretty much guarantee they're also the same people that think superhero/comic book movies are good, and that the star trek reboot movies are on par with the others, or that Dr Who isn't crap, etc.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:52 pm 
 

Um, dude, I can't fucking stand 99.9% of comic book/superhero movies, I dislike JJ trek a lot and haven't bothered with Doctor Who. I grew up on TNG, and have watched every episode of DS9, VOY and ENT two or three times each. And I think Discovery is pretty good so far, and has by far the best pilot episode in Trek history.

But drawing any real conclusion about the show this early on is ridiculous. As I said, read Trekcore's review, or hell, just go a few pages back in this very thread...
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severzhavnost
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:06 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
IMDB is stocked to the gills with alt-right leaning contrarian edgelords (most of them coming from 4chan) with 5 or 6 alt accounts each to make it seem like their opinions are somehow representative of the public's opinion. The situation got so bad, IMDB had to shut down their entire message board because of it. You shouldn't take any review written there without a pillar of salt. 4chan went to war with Discovery because of the erroneous and ridiculous "forced diversitity" and "anti-Trump" claims' based on a couple of off-hand comments by the cast and crew. Their complaints have very little to do with the actual show itself.

If you want to see what real Star Trek fans thought of Discovery, I'd read the review by Zack Handlen for The AV Club and Trekcore.com's review. I'd also suggest peaking into the comments' section of both.


That's messed up. If anyone is triggered by diversity, I'd suggest maybe not watching a show that is entirely predicated on encountering alien cultures. And this is coming from me, a person whose general reaction to the word "multiculturalism" is an eyeroll and a muttered "feck".

Now about the actual show - I loved this week's Star Trek! They've set up that Engineer Stamets as potentially a smart-ass Rodney MacKay type of character, which I would thoroughly enjoy. I'm also eager to find out what the Discovery's secret is: my bet is they're trying to develop a cloaking device, which would finally explain why the Federation never had them. It's weird; as much as I liked the Dominion War and Xindi storylines in DS9 and ENT, I always preferred great standalone episodes which is why TNG is my favourite series. That said, I'm totally fine with Discovery taking on a more serial style.
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Nahsil
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:08 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Um, dude, I can't fucking stand 99.9% of comic book/superhero movies, I dislike JJ trek a lot and haven't bothered with Doctor Who. I grew up on TNG, and have watched every episode of DS9, VOY and ENT two or three times each. And I think Discovery is pretty good so far, and has by far the best pilot episode in Trek history.

But drawing any real conclusion about the show this early on is ridiculous. As I said, read Trekcore's review, or hell, just go a few pages back in this very thread...


Same. I'm enjoying it so far, and I'm a long-time Trek fan, hate Abrams, and don't generally care for superhero movies. I have my skepticisms around it but I honestly don't mind the change in tone and whatnot, so far, as long as they can turn it into something quality in the long-term.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:33 pm 
 

Turner wrote:
RE new Star Trek: just watched the first two episodes and while they're pretty good action-wise, I have a feeling this entire series is going to be based around this particular scenario/s and won't do what I really want from Star Trek (or any sci-fi TV series): monster-of-the-week episodes set in space/on other planets, hilariously improbable dystopian societies, totally out there but thought-provoking escapism, and a recurring larger story arc (read: every few episodes, like TNG did with Q and the Borg, or the X-Files, or SG-1's Goa'uld/Ori stuff). I actively want campy shit like the holodeck episodes, Data's Sherlock Holmes character (and the butler from the nanny gaining sentience... that was genuinely good sci-fi) etc, but I'd say this series is going to be all dumb action and clunky 2010s US race-relations parallels for the "ain't never read the books but we sure done watched Game of Thrones for the tits and fighting woo hoo!" crowd.

edit: ok so pretty much all the IMDB reviews of it say about the same as what I wrote heh.



Cracked said the series is all action, no sci-fi.

Youtube: show


Which was pretty much my major fear for the series, and pretty much exactly what the trailers showed. Fucking space trash. It's Star WarsTrek, and that's not what I want. Fuck them, fuck that. Star Trek is dead, and I totally agree, Star Trek needs it's sillier and thought-provoking episodes. Without those, Star Trek is cookie-cutter garbage.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:43 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Um, dude, I can't fucking stand 99.9% of comic book/superhero movies, I dislike JJ trek a lot and haven't bothered with Doctor Who. I grew up on TNG, and have watched every episode of DS9, VOY and ENT two or three times each. And I think Discovery is pretty good so far, and has by far the best pilot episode in Trek history.

But drawing any real conclusion about the show this early on is ridiculous. As I said, read Trekcore's review, or hell, just go a few pages back in this very thread...


Pretty much every post-70's Trek series took two seasons wallowing in some serious growing pains before finding their voice, but for the most part, at least they set the tone of the show if not the voice. I think I went over this earlier in this thread, but TNG's first two seasons are nearly unwatchable (black people kidnap white lady planet episode), DS9 seemed without direction unsure of how to "Trek" with a space station before the Dominion entered the picture, Enterprise got bogged down early in a bad time travel plot, and Voyager... Actually, that one just really never got much better.

So, I expect this one will also have some growing pains, but thus far, everything I'm hearing sounds fucking awful.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:50 pm 
 

An action-heavy pilot to a Star Trek series! How completely unexpected!

Episode 3 and 4 have been fantastic by the way. The show has been shaping up nicely. Apparently Jonathan Frakes will be directing a Mirror Universe episode later this season!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:07 pm 
 

I guess they were worried it wasn't unoriginal enough and wanted to make sure they only used completely recycled ideas.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:46 am 
 

Rezzy: watch this (first half is spoiler free): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=filkaXWGrPk
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:26 am 
 

Genius comment from that video:

low_flying_frying_pan wrote:
I'm sick of grim-dark super-grit in everything. That's my chief complaint with this show. Remember when Star Trek was hopeful, inspiring and bold, when it could skirt troubling, difficult and even sinister issues without spiraling into abject cynicism? Admit the truth, it's the serialization. That kind of over-arching story-telling only works when you constantly juice the drama (conflict). It's difficult to have a steady degree of tension without plummeting into chasing the purple-drama-dragon. Constantly upping the stakes to keep viewership. That's why the Great Bird (Gene Roddenberry) was so deeply opposed to it. It would poison a show with an ideology like Trek. Instead of exploring in wonder, we're left searching for reasons to go on with a miserable group of people being miserable to each other. I can already watch that with Game of Thrones or on the Walking Dead. Some of us in the midst want levity and courage in these divisive, despairing, and violent times. I want to believe in the future, not wallow with soggy blankets in an angst addled present.

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:04 pm 
 

I prefer my TV to be full of the pitch-blackness of the human heart, where triumph is a fever dream and all that awaits you in the end is a grisly, brutal death where all your hopes and dreams are shattered before your very eyes as you're forced to come to terms with the fact that everything you've ever believed in was a lie. Lives have been ruined and hopes have been shattered, and it was all your fault. That's why Fate/Zero is one of my favorite TV shows! :'3
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:02 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
An action-heavy pilot to a Star Trek series! How completely unexpected!

Episode 3 and 4 have been fantastic by the way. The show has been shaping up nicely. Apparently Jonathan Frakes will be directing a Mirror Universe episode later this season!


FUCKING GROAN. The mirror universe was done already in TOS and we got everything we need from it in DS9. This is pathetic.

Also, the pilot to TNG was not action-heavy.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:21 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Rezzy: watch this (first half is spoiler free): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=filkaXWGrPk


That's an interesting video and it does give me a tiny inkling of hope for the franchise--and again, I remember my aforementioned traditional Trek issue where most of them take two seasons to get anywhere. The thing is, it didn't address that the series, thus far, seems to lack the hopefulness of Roddenberry's future, and the series seems to lack thoughtful, intelligent, science-based storytelling that touches on various social, political, and religious concepts where rationality and understanding take precedent.

I agree with the sentiment that this serial style is ill-fitting for Trek. Concepts that they can revisit once in a while, or minor serial storytelling is fine--the way the Borg and Q frequently showed up in TNG, or the way the Dominion arc popped up every few episodes in DS9 in the latter half of the series. But Trek doesn't work like Walking Dead where they have to stretch like Mr. Fantastic in their plotting and make increasingly stupid decisions simply to maintain the struggles to keep it going. That's stupid. That means your story works because no one learns anything.
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