started watching 13 Reasons Why.

it's kinda annoyingly moralistic, as if it was made to be shown in schools, but it's more irritating how they just had to use a flawless pretty girl who apparently no one thinks is pretty as the protagonist.

This show is good, but I got about 2/3 of the way through season 1 before I realised that I like none of the characters. The main guy is totally unlikeable and I felt like he wasn't handling anything well enough. The supporting cast wasn't that much better. I got to the end of season 1 because I wanted to see the resolution of how it all ended. I watched the first episode of season 2 and decided to leave it there mainly because....


I hope you like it, and I think it does make some good headway into portraying mental health, but it's not the best. It does go downhill after season 1, apparently.

I should think so. it's hard to imagine the need for a season 2, so it could've only been forced into existence (like True Detective season 2 and other garbage that had to continue to exist due to a popular first 'season' (shit that actually stands alone as a movie/mini series, but because it's TV, they act like it just goes on and on).)

Is season 2 of True Detective really that bad? I haven't watched it yet but I kinda refuse to believe it could be outright trash.

^It's not outright trash.

I appreciate the gloomy and oppressive atmosphere. There are some pretty good lines mixed with some goofy ones, some pretty good moments of acting, and some interesting choices in storytelling. I think the most interesting moments of the season was when the 3 main characters interacted with the people in their lives instead of focusing on the job. The drama there ranged from decent to very good in my opinion, and sucked me in more than the main plot. Also there's some cool music.

So, for me at least, "outright trash" is not how I would describe it. I would describe it as a disappointing follow up to the first season. It didn't have the same kind of compelling characters and seamless bind of personal drama mixed with the detective drama. In S1 nothing felt separate, everything felt important, and the journey of these two characters, for me, came to a completely satisfactory ending even despite . I can't say that about S2. The characters are more just really fucked up than they are compelling, and the story while having interesting mysteries at first, is not resolved in any meaningful way and the personal drama barely tied into it by the end and left not much impact for me. It's just a bit of "well I guess that's over now". If S2 was S1 I would not continue with the show probably. S3 looks interesting, though! Let's hope that turns out better.

No, it's not trash at all. It's just a well-done cop drama show. If season 1 never existed, season 2 would probably be hailed as one of the best straightforward crime/police drama series in quite a while. However, season 1 had even more captivating leads, a more interesting setting, and more elements of philosophical musings and of course that vaguely supernatural borderline cosmic horror stuff that took it to another level. Season 2 is very pedestrian in comparison to that. Shit, for people new to the show I'd actually probably recommend watching season 2 first.

It's not trash. The problem with season 2 is that it has 4 main characters instead of 2, with the same amount of episodes as the first season and trying to tell double the amount of stories. It is inconsistent in its pacing and narrative jumps abound, but the tone and acting and overall story are pretty damn good. It isn't as tightly focused as S1 and doesn't quite suck you in as much as a consequence, but I enjoyed it.

Yeah that's exactly right. Honestly I think season 2 could've been as good as season 1 if they'd just had around 3-4 more episodes to wrap things up better. The pacing in the first 6 or so episodes is super slow, gradually building the characters and setting, and then all at once they seemed to realize they only had a few episodes left to wrap up the whole mystery, and the last few (despite featuring some of the best scenes of the whole series) felt really goddamn rushed. It seemed at first like the season was building to some sort of grand revelation on the level of season 1's, but the denouement ending up being pretty mundane.

Still really good, and I agree with bats that the show almost works better with the season order reversed. If they'd aired the other way around, everyone would rave about the show as a whole - instead season 2 is viewed as a disappointment. Which it is! But it's like thinking you won $1,000,000 in the lottery, only to find out you won a mere $100,000.

I'll add my 2 cents since I've recently watched True Detective. Season 2 is not trash but it has a lot of problems, first of which I'd say is Vince Vaughn, the actor and his character. I was extremely annoyed whenever he was on screen during the first few episodes. His scenes would basically go "fuck fuck fuck I'm awesome and you're weaker than me and you'll do as I please fuck fuck fuck." The rest of the characters weren't really interesting. They're all totally fucked up in their personal lives and it all felt forced and not engaging. And then you have a complex story that's just not developed well enough, given the number of main characters and the action. I stopped following the story early on since at many points I had no idea what was going on, I was just "seeing" what was happening rather than going through it.

It still has positive stuff though, and I guess I ended up liking it. I enjoyed the actions scenes, and there were quite a few of them. Of course nothing like that long take from season 1, but there's a particular long shootout scene that was incredibly awesome. I also liked the fact that despite everything the show tries to remain "realistic," especially with the action scenes and their aftermath (immediate or long-term).

But yeah, compared to season 1 it's just disappointing.

I started Bojack season 5, and I just couldn't pull myself away from it, so I ended up watching it in one sitting! The Free Churro episode was exceptional.

I think I figured out why BoJack season 5 wasn't making me laugh as much despite it being totally engrossing...

Season 5 is excellent, but the way I've been describing it to people who haven't watched it yet is that when Bojack started out, the show was 75% comedy and 25% drama, and now it's the other way around. It's especially less funny now that he's finally sorta started maybe facing up to the consequences of his actions instead of running away from them? Maybe?

It's definitely progressing and exploring new dramatic waters, but it never stopped being funny - Season 4 was hysterical for instance. This one had a lot of jokes I could recognize as funny objectively, but I just wasn't laughing so much because of how squeamish the entire situation around the jokes was.

Has anyone else watched Maniac yet? I'm only about halfway through the season but fuck it's good so far. The parody/retro-futuristic 80s setting ought to be antithesis to the very heavy personal drama the show slings around, but for some reason it works perfectly. In the same way, Jonah Hill shouldn't be this good at a serious role, but he is. Still plenty of time to fuck things up but for now I love it - the closest I can put it is Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind but in a Robocop setting.

I've only got two episodes left and it's really interesting and weird - visually fascinating and Emma Stone and Jonah Hill are just killing it. The story is super intricate with the number of bizarro different mutations it takes on. I like that it's trying to be very psychological, although my complaint would be that so far, it hasn't really gotten past the same themes and refrains established in the first few episodes to really hit a level of depth. But the effort is admirable.

Maniac was okay. I watched the whole thing but I wasn't terribly impressed. I liked the idea but the execution was a little off. Still, not the worst thing I've ever seen.

I'm only 10 episodes in, but Star Wars - Clone Wars has to be among the best Star Wars media. The attention to detail is excellent, the writing is surprisingly sharp, and some interesting characters (General Grievous) get some well deserved time in the spotlight.

Anyone started to watch Castlevania S2 on Netflix yet?

My lord, the art and animation is gorgeous.

You talking about the 2D Cartoon Network show? It's definitely excellent and one of my favorite pieces of SW material. The other characters that get an important depictions are the clones. Like, yeah they're all over the places in episodes 2 and 3 but Clone Wars is one of the only times they get to be the elite, unstoppable force they're supposed to be.

Holy shit I didn't even know that was out! I loved the first season including the animation and whatnot, and now I'm about to devour this one.

Hm, I was expecting to see this thread on fire about The Haunting of Hill House, but I was afraid to check until I finished the series. Did I miss the whole thing, or did no one really care about this show? I thought it was amazing. Truly some spooky/scary moments, fantastic acting and cinematography. Reading about the setpieces was incredible.

I keep hearing about it, and since I'm almost done catching up on Bojack S4 and S5 and am still waiting for my pokey friends to catch up to me in Twin Peaks (I feel like they watch an episode a week at best...grumble grumble) I might as well give that show a whirl.

Man, I would give it about the highest recommendation for a tv show possible. Up there with some of my all-time favorites. I'd say it's EASILY the best "spooky/scary" tv show I've ever seen. I'm talking genuine moments of true discomfort. Netflix originals can be so hit or miss, I went into this one with zero expectations and I COULD NOT consume the show fast enough. Luckily my girl could only handle 1 episode about every 2 days so she kept me at a reasonable pace. Shit gets heavy, admittedly.

I thought it was pretty close to flawless and the best horror media this year. It really showed what you can do with horror as an art form because it was about so much more than just some jump scares or an old house with creepy lighting. This was like an epic tragedy and focused on the lingering effects of horror on its characters, which was pretty profound compared to the way most in the genre do things. Mike Flanagan's best yet I think. The artistry and craftsmanship in the writing and cinematography just made it an arresting experience.

YES sir! I have to say I was really surprised how good it is. The first episode was good, but didn't really set me up with expectations for just HOW spectacular it gets. Would recommend for basically ANY fans of horror/thriller, with a special asterisk for fans of Hereditary.

There's a depth to the emotional plight of the family that really brings the whole thing home. They also play with time in a way that is super enjoyable for me, and probably anyone who loved True Detective Season 1 will find some similarities in the way the story is told. I've noticed a lot of shows are starting to do this now, and I think it rules when done expertly. I've heard about an amazon prime show called Homecoming that does the same thing. Was developed from a podcast apparently. I'm curious.

Well, now I'm definitely sold. Bojack is crushing me pretty hard but I'm excited to watch this.

Yeah, the more I pay attention to how people tell stories in TV and film, the more it seems like one of the best ways to make characters well-rounded and in-depth is to show the kind of impact a character's childhood or some event from the past had, to weave things from past and present into a story. There are hammy or overly spoon-fed ways to do that, but I thought Haunting of Hill House really pulled it off. The scene-jumping through time was very good.

I didn't think anything would beat BoJack and Better Call Saul for me this year but this was right up there personally.

Definitely. There's nothing more frustrating than a really heavy-handed flash back scene to give you some kind of "origin story". I fucking hate that shit. But if you can find a clever way to flip back and forth between two (or more) timelines simultaneously, while letting the overall story unfold? God damn. TD S1 was the first time I saw this really work masterfully, I believe. Glad some other people are taking notice.

Batjim: You know I want that hot take when you get into it! Keep in mind episode 1 didn't blow me away, but it was damn good, even still. The show just blossoms from the second and third episodes into something fairly special. Hoping you dig it.

Yeah Daredevil's new season had a quite lame and over-long flashback I just saw that really slowed down the episode and story. Made me miss Haunting of Hill House in comparison.

I'm not surprised! I think the superhero genre has to be the worst offender when it comes to hammy-ass flashbacks. only video games tend to do worse. "HERE! TAKE ALL THIS EXPOSITION SO WE CAN GET TO THE FIGHTING!"

Regarding the Haunting of Hill House Discussion, I pretty much totally agree. Didn't expect it to be so consistently strong, delivering the goods throughout in a very Stephen King-esque manner of going back and forth in time (I know King didn't invent the concept and I know the source material predates King, it's just what came to mind when I saw it). Very reminiscent of IT to me, really, as far as the storytelling is concerned; slowly revealing things from the past, the adult protagonists confronting the evil they faced as kids. The tension and suspense are absolutely superb, it never really slows down, it keeps driving right to the point, and it actually had a mostly satisfying ending for me, which is often a problem I have with horror. Just really great writing with almost no flaws. Best horror I've seen in a long time.

Yeah King is definitely hugely influenced by the source material for this, so it makes sense. It's a funny ouroboros-type of effect. That new IT movie undoubtedly influenced stuff like this with its polish and attention to character over just pure scares. And Mike's a huge Stephen King fan himself. It all comes together.

Yeah I suspected King might have been influenced by the source material, but I hadn't done enough research to know for sure, plus I was unsure of how faithful to the source this adaptation was. I haven't actually read anything from Jackson, aside from reading The Lottery in class during high school. Sounds like I probably need to fix that! I'm still kind of a horror noob, I didn't really get fully into the genre until I was 22. Sounds like I've got some work to do!

Started watching The Haunting of Hill House (spoilers through episode 3):



But, I can definitely see how it will be a grower as it progresses.

That scene at the end of Episode 3 is where the whole show really took off for me, and I couldn't wait to get to the next one. I hope you start to feel that connection with the family, otherwise the show will probably not be very interesting.

I think the interwoven stories and flashing back and forth from past to present is one of the best parts of the show - hope it grows on ya with the following eps for sure. I think it gets better and better as you go on. Probably going to start re-watching it today actually.

Well fuck, episode 4 just killed me. Ok, roped in. Jesus.

This makes me very happy.

I first look on any action in terms of time-consuming. Is it useful for me or not? I don't know, what you can see on TV in your country, but where I live, I can find nothing interesting for me, besides "culture" channel. I don't turn on TV at home.

The new season of MST3K appears to only be 6 episodes, but they did manage to get some seriously polished turds in there, not the least of which is fucking Mac & Me. What a pile of shit that movie is.