Howdy fellas,

I am aware of the change of this getting in are very slim, but I think Botanist are due for a reevaluation based on their latest album, both because it's the most significant release since the last appeal, and also I think their most metal one.

Let's get this out of the way: it still doesn't have any guitars. But it's the first (I think it's the first, but here's a consequence of them not being here, since I don't have any other place with constantly updated lineup info) Botanist album that is more of a band effort, with the bass having more of a presence, making Ecosystem the closest that Botanist has ever gotten to "normal" black metal.

And as much as you probably hate this argument, it wouldn't be the first M-A band without any guitars.

Here's a stream: https://verdant-realm-botanist.bandcamp.com/album/ecosystem

Several of us looked it over and while we had mods on both sides on the fence, there were more nos than yeses. Blacklisting stays for now.

For posterity's sake, here's my personal take, as somebody who has heard all of Botanist's albums to date and is leaning no: it's true we have bands that don't use guitars on the site, such as Wreche who just use a piano and drums. The difference between Botanist and that type of music is that Botanist is much less intense sonically, which separates the music far enough from black metal that it doesn't fall within the standards of this database. With Wreche, not only is the drumming intense, but there is a constant stream of fast notes that, indeed, lends the music its similarity to black metal despite being played with an acoustic instrument. With Botanist (and this applies to all their albums to date, really), you get occasional moments with blast beats that sound legitimately metal, but you also get plenty of sections with sparse, minimalistic dulcimer playing and mid-paced rocking drums. If the music were played by distorted guitars, even though the riffs aren't very metal, it would probably bear enough similarity to post-black metal to get a pass; likewise, if it were constantly in balls-to-the-wall mode like Wreche while still using the dulcimer, it would probably still be intense enough that its mood would be undeniably black metal. As it stands, with all the sections played with light, sparse, airy chords and light, frolicking drumming, Botanist often ends up feeling like some sort of experimental post-rock or new wave band with rasps and occasional blast beats. The end result bears some limited similarity to black metal as the database defines it, but it's not quite there.

I don't want to seem like an elitist, since I legitimately do like the band, but I feel like it would be unprecedented to include them in a metal database based on how their music sounds in a prima facie sense. Which, if I were in this band or a fan of them, I would take as a compliment, seeing as they've pushed the genre far enough with outside influences that it's no longer recognizable to a database that catalogs such music.