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cranialcrusherabc
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 11:39 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:06 pm 
 

Why was Amorfo (BRA) blacklisted?
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PDS
The Folk One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 1575
Location: A forest on an island!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:14 pm 
 

Blacklisted last month for being more punk than metal
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Overdosed
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:26 pm
Posts: 5
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:48 am 
 

Encyclopaedia Metallum wrote:
Sorry Overdosed, Encyclopaedia Metallum was forced to reject your submission for the band Viles Vitae (Portugal), for the following reason:

Provide proof of metalness (a link to song samples) and valid release (either evidence for a physical release, such as photos, or for a valid digital release). Please read our rules next time.

If you want to object to this rejection, please do so in the appropriate thread in the "Suggestions and Complaints" sub-forum. Do not e-mail moderators directly about this. If you need help digging up more information about a band for your submission, you can try posting about it in this thread.

Sincerely,
- PDS, Encyclopaedia Metallum


Here you go:

http://cavernaabismal.bandcamp.com/album/viles-vitae-iv-cd

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10074
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:00 am 
 

That's a pre-order, please wait until the album is actually released.
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Ruido Noise
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:08 am
Posts: 7
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:59 am 
 

Hello;

A moderator has rejected NASTY SURGEONS (https://www.facebook.com/nastysurgeons/) for this reason:
"We don't take bands before they have a release out."

Maybe this person need to check the official web of the labels before to take decisions to avoid waste the time of people that wants to cooperate with Encyclopaedia Metallum. You can buy the album here:
http://www.xtreemmusic.com/shop/spanish ... c&id=17962

Greetz

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theunrelentingattack
Not yet ready for a custom title

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:18 pm
Posts: 1408
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:12 pm 
 

You submitted it before it came out - which was today. And a user submitted it today and it was accepted. Maybe you should learn the rules before wasting our time.
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Ruido Noise
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:08 am
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Location: Spain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:18 pm 
 

A moderator has rejected FATHER BLUEBEARD and I don't know what's the reason.
They are an active band that self-released their first EP on December the 31th, and it's available through their official bandcamp page: https://fatherbluebeard.bandcamp.com/ where you can download for free or pay the quantity that you want.

Greetz

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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 9275
Location: At the Heat of Winter
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:22 pm 
 

Regarding acceptance, digital releases must be at least 20 minutes. Read the guidelines.
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Ruido Noise
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:08 am
Posts: 7
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:27 pm 
 

theunrelentingattack wrote:
You submitted it before it came out - which was today. And a user submitted it today and it was accepted. Maybe you should learn the rules before wasting our time.


I submitted it a few days ago, you're right, but I submitted it again today (during the night) too. I will complete the data that the other user forgot to add.

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Ruido Noise
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:08 am
Posts: 7
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:32 pm 
 

Diamhea wrote:
Regarding acceptance, digital releases must be at least 20 minutes. Read the guidelines.


The rules says "...AND long enough (preferably over 20 minutes)". If you ignore the releases under 20 minutes, some EPs or singles will be ignored.

Thanks.

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JoseFritz
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:40 pm 
 

I was surprised that Zealous Fuel was rejected as not-metal. They use all the traditional musical structures in metal: tritones, powercords, B flat a diatonic and almost exclusively minor keys. Even the textures are metal, drum attack is high in the mix and guitars all distorted... ? They charted at CMJ in 2001 on the metal chart.

If they were not metal, what were they? they booked metal shows, played metal shows, promoted other metal bands.. flyer-ing metal, publishing metal, broadcasting metal... in the small scene that was that time and place they were the metal in it's very core.

I know we are to avoid comparisons... but many less heavy bands are included herein (numerous) and far more eclectic bands (i.e. less metal) (cough mr. bungle cough) are in the encyclopaedia. So I'm having trouble seeing the purist/ not-purist rule of thumb I need to apply.

thanks

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10074
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:40 pm 
 

Ruido Noise wrote:
Diamhea wrote:
Regarding acceptance, digital releases must be at least 20 minutes. Read the guidelines.


The rules says "...AND long enough (preferably over 20 minutes)". If you ignore the releases under 20 minutes, some EPs or singles will be ignored.

Thanks.

A single 14-minute EP is nowhere near a valid digital release, sorry.
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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 9275
Location: At the Heat of Winter
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:42 pm 
 

JoseFritz wrote:
I know we are to avoid comparisons... but many less heavy bands are included herein (numerous) and far more eclectic bands (i.e. less metal) (cough mr. bungle cough) are in the encyclopaedia. So I'm having trouble seeing the purist/ not-purist rule of thumb I need to apply.

thanks


Citing the very first post in this thread, which everybody seems to ignore:

5. Comparing bands (don't)

This may seem like the obvious course of action in some cases, but be advised that we generally frown upon arguments like "you have band A listed and band B is similar, hence you must also accept band B". Please avoid this, as it comes with the following problems:
1) We simply do not work that way. Each band is assessed and judged on its own merit and trying to compare two distinct bands is treacherous business, even if they may sound similar. And if the two are indeed sonic carbon copies, perhaps the listed one should be deleted instead.
2) Since the site lists a (very) small number of non-metal exceptions, one might be tempted to use them as a reference point. However, these are exactly that, exceptions, and not subject to our guidelines on music.
3) Slippery slope. We do not want to base further inclusions solely on one or more listed band(s) that might be questionable or were wrongly approved to begin with. We would rather (re-)assess the proposed inclusion and the compared listed band(s) on their own instead of expanding a part of the database based around repeated instances of a resigned "we'll, we have this, why not this as well?". See item 1).
4) Most importantly, the Archives can in some ways be seen as a database of metal releases rather than bands. What that means is that in order to gain entry, a band only needs one predominantly metal release (ideally a full-length), regardless of the rest of their discography. This can result in bands starting out as metal, but changing to non-metal later or the reverse. More subtle cases exist, with bands being listed based on a (possibly lesser-known) fraction of their discography. So how does this connect to comparing bands? Well, it's simple: Since we judge releases, comparing band A as a whole to band B as a whole is a fallacious argument when one is actually comparing non-metal output of band A (accepted based on their metal output) to non-metal output of band B (unacceptable because they have no metal output). Consider it one level above arguing that band B should be included because they have a few songs as metal as band A's releases.

So again, each band is judged individually and we don't do the blind approach "A, hence also B".
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JoseFritz
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:02 pm 
 

I avoided making a conditional argument based on included bands. I defined Zealous Fuel as metal with music structure.
In the case that you exclude some kinds of metal (which now seems probable) I referred to included acts as points of reference.
I'm seeking a RULE OF THUMB. There are none in the rules.

I've read the rules three times now, and I keep noticing the 3rd rule is a logical fallacy. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10074
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:14 pm 
 

hehe yeah, naturally that fallacy did occur to me when I wrote that. Hence why it's not the only reason cited and using this argument does not automatically constitute a fallacy in all contexts anyway. Based on the stuff I've seen people submit and bring up as metal over the years, there is no doubt in my mind that blindly following "A, thus B" in approving bands would continually broaden the focus of this site into meaninglessness. Positive feedback.

EDIT: I just listened to the band on Bandcamp, seems to be some kind of heavy prog/fusion.
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JoseFritz
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:23 pm 
 

I understand the need for rules. If things were too broad, we'd be loaded down with 90s Ska bands and bad Canadian folk trios. Can you advise on what musical basis I should then appeal?

I thought the tri-tone would be enough. That's the diabolus an musica of metal. Minor keys hard attack? I'm not sure what else their missing except fake blood.

I want to understand so I don't waste time on any future dubious submissions.

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Nagaarum
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 6:31 am
Posts: 17
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:53 pm 
 

Hi there,

Admin said: "Not a metal band; does not belong on Encyclopaedia Metallum."
I have to ask you: WHY???

If Cadaveres doesn't fit with the Metal Archives why the Lamb of God fits???
I know that Cadaveres is a metalcore band, but as I noticed there are metalcore bands here.
Teaser for the new album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms72m9VSRnc

In addition there is evidence that Cadaveres released metal album.
Nail Records the biggest Hungarian metal label.
Look at this:
http://www.metalshop.hu/advanced_search ... =cadaveres

Salut,
Nagaarum

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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 9275
Location: At the Heat of Winter
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:56 pm 
 

Nagaarum wrote:
Hi there,

Admin said: "Not a metal band; does not belong on Encyclopaedia Metallum."
I have to ask you: WHY???

If Cadaveres doesn't fit with the Metal Archives why the Lamb of God fits???
I know that Cadaveres is a metalcore band, but as I noticed there are metalcore bands here.
Teaser for the new album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms72m9VSRnc

In addition there is evidence that Cadaveres released metal album.
Nail Records the biggest Hungarian metal label.
Look at this:
http://www.metalshop.hu/advanced_search ... =cadaveres

Salut,
Nagaarum


Citing the very first post in this thread, which everybody seems to ignore:

5. Comparing bands (don't)

This may seem like the obvious course of action in some cases, but be advised that we generally frown upon arguments like "you have band A listed and band B is similar, hence you must also accept band B". Please avoid this, as it comes with the following problems:
1) We simply do not work that way. Each band is assessed and judged on its own merit and trying to compare two distinct bands is treacherous business, even if they may sound similar. And if the two are indeed sonic carbon copies, perhaps the listed one should be deleted instead.
2) Since the site lists a (very) small number of non-metal exceptions, one might be tempted to use them as a reference point. However, these are exactly that, exceptions, and not subject to our guidelines on music.
3) Slippery slope. We do not want to base further inclusions solely on one or more listed band(s) that might be questionable or were wrongly approved to begin with. We would rather (re-)assess the proposed inclusion and the compared listed band(s) on their own instead of expanding a part of the database based around repeated instances of a resigned "we'll, we have this, why not this as well?". See item 1).
4) Most importantly, the Archives can in some ways be seen as a database of metal releases rather than bands. What that means is that in order to gain entry, a band only needs one predominantly metal release (ideally a full-length), regardless of the rest of their discography. This can result in bands starting out as metal, but changing to non-metal later or the reverse. More subtle cases exist, with bands being listed based on a (possibly lesser-known) fraction of their discography. So how does this connect to comparing bands? Well, it's simple: Since we judge releases, comparing band A as a whole to band B as a whole is a fallacious argument when one is actually comparing non-metal output of band A (accepted based on their metal output) to non-metal output of band B (unacceptable because they have no metal output). Consider it one level above arguing that band B should be included because they have a few songs as metal as band A's releases.

So again, each band is judged individually and we don't do the blind approach "A, hence also B".
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Nagaarum
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 6:31 am
Posts: 17
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:29 pm 
 

Diamhea wrote:

Citing the very first post in this thread, which everybody seems to ignore:


Yes, because If I notice that Lamb of God was accepted I don't think you will reject the Cadaveres which a very similar band...
Anyway I didn't get answer to my question: Why Cadaveres is not a metal band?

Sorry for my English...

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Erosion of Humanity
Destroyer of the Gods

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 5703
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:32 pm 
 

Because metalcore, just like deathcore, is a hybrid genre that blends heavy metal and hardcore. And there's a line in the sand for what's acceptable and what's not. Your band apparently falls on the "not" side which means that there is more hardcore than heavy metal in the music.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10074
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:15 pm 
 

JoseFritz wrote:
I understand the need for rules. If things were too broad, we'd be loaded down with 90s Ska bands and bad Canadian folk trios. Can you advise on what musical basis I should then appeal?

Well, you already appealed in this thread and another mod (me) agreed with the initial rejection. Agree to disagree, no big deal.

JoseFritz wrote:
I thought the tri-tone would be enough. That's the diabolus an musica of metal. Minor keys hard attack? I'm not sure what else their missing except fake blood.

I want to understand so I don't waste time on any future dubious submissions.

I appreciate that, but you have to understand that our basis for accepting bands is both more specific and more vague/intuitive than that. Guitar-based heaviness alone is not sufficient, nor are any non-musical theatrics. Yet, on the other hand, I can't give you any exact technical pointers, because we aren't professionally trained in musical theory or anything like that and metal is a many-faced beast (and I doubt trying to produce a foolproof definition of metal that way would work anyway, other than maybe in the form of some guiding checklist of musical features, but again, I don't have the know-how). What we require of bands to play, consistently, is metal riffs, and I/we can't really describe it any better other than "we know it when we hear it", based on the staff's combined experience of many, many years listening to metal. Obviously that'll be of little help to you, but there it is. I can tell you this, though: If you aren't sure a band qualifies, then it's probably better not to submit it.
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2336
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:22 pm 
 

I submitted the Ukrainian melodic black metal band Niezbezhnost yesterday and then got an approval notice this morning. I tried to access the page a little later today and there is no record of me ever submitting the band. I understand if the band doesn't meet the necessary criteria as there isn't a lot of information on them, but it's a bit odd that there is no record of the band being rejected on my band profile page, nor did I receive a rejection notice after the acceptance notice via email. Is this possibly a glitch?

This was the link provided in the approval email: http://www.metal-archives.com/Niezbezhnost/3540422033
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1337
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:34 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/%D0 ... %8C/126292
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JoseFritz
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:34 pm 
 

Is there some kind of list of metal sub-genres that are not metal-enough?
I've been reading the messages and it appears that whole sub-genres are banned.
That was not in the rules, but it would be useful.

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Midnight Rider
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:07 pm
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:38 pm 
 

JoseFritz wrote:
Is there some kind of list of metal sub-genres that are not metal-enough?
I've been reading the messages and it appears that whole sub-genres are banned.
That was not in the rules, but it would be useful.

Rules → Heavy Metal Only → Long-ass, rambling, read-before-complaining-only version
... and also please read the "We do NOT accept the following" list on the Detailed version

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Erosion of Humanity
Destroyer of the Gods

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 5703
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:47 pm 
 

This thread may also be of some use viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102592. I'm guessing that the stuff you're talking about is something we don't consider to me a metal genre/sub-genre though. Things like djent and nu metal are not considered to be metal by this site.
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2336
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:13 pm 
 

Antioch wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/%D0%9D%D0%B5%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C/126292


Got it, for some reason when I typed the band's name in with English characters it didn't redirect to their page so I assumed they weren't on here yet, hence the mix-up.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1337
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:22 pm 
 

You transposed some vowels, hells... a minor misspelling it was.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=nl
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theunrelentingattack
Not yet ready for a custom title

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:18 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:51 pm 
 

Yep, I accepted it, then deleted it since it was a dupe. Sorry H_I - meant to send you a note saying it was a dupe since there's no record of it now.
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kochujang
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:01 am
Posts: 28
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:54 am 
 

Why was Kunstzone blacklisted? Also, when was it blacklisted?

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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 9275
Location: At the Heat of Winter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:15 am 
 

Blacklisted in late 2015. Primarily industrial.
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Leave a steaming, stinking Rotting Repulsive Rotting Corpse = LIVE YOUNG - DIE FREE and move on to the NEXT form of yourself....or just be a fat Wal-Mart Mcdonalds pc of shit what do I give a fuck what you do.

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Gengangare
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:19 am 
 

I can understand why Vèrmibdrèb was blacklisted before as the demo was never released at all (Only the two bandmembers had the demo), but it was just recently released through Black Gangrene Productions for the first time on cassette tape. It's a mixture between Black Metal/Thrash Metal and Punk, so I think it fits well on M-A.

Discogs links for reference: https://www.discogs.com/V%C3%A8rmibdr%C ... se/9618197
Someone will most likely upload the thing to the internet at some point. I do not have any samples of it. But I would imagine the label has.

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Azmodes
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:34 am 
 

Vèrmibdrèb was blacklisted last year for being punk.
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Gengangare
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:39 am 
 

Hm. Seems odd as no one besides the band itself had heard the thing before now to my knowledge. Here is an actual sample:

https://soundcloud.com/blackgangrene/vermibdreb

If not deemed "metal enough" I will not question this further.

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kochujang
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:01 am
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Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:54 am 
 

Diamhea wrote:
Blacklisted in late 2015. Primarily industrial.

Thanks. They have metalled up considerably in their 2nd album, "The art of making the earth uninhabitable", which was released 3 months ago. I would like to appeal to have the ban lifted. The album in its entirety can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q5FCKZlv3Q#

You can find the song navigation in the description. The first song (Proven-ID) is more of an intro song. If the second song already falls through your metal-criteria (without any doubt), then you do not need to bother to listen to the rest. It is more or less the same.

Edit:
Their Album can also be found on bandcamp: https://kunstzone.bandcamp.com/album/th ... nhabitable

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The_Weaver_of_Dreams
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 9:02 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:30 pm 
 

PDS wrote:
Nope, they were rejected because they aren't metal. Just folk instruments and non metal -core.

I have their current EP "Jiana" and it definitely is folk metal (https://e-an-na.bandcamp.com/album/jiana)

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PDS
The Folk One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
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Location: A forest on an island!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:03 pm 
 

It was rejected based on that EP by one of the mods that is knowledgeable with folk metal. This is basically folk melodies and chugging / breakdowns. I like the band, Sârbă Ciobănească is my jam, but I agree with the mod that rejected them. The blacklist stays
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I dunno, I'm a guitarist and it always feels like playing a giant cock. Not just that but live music should hit you in the genitals. It might not if you don't use good amplifiers and your modelling shit goes straight out of the PA. But good music hits you HARD in the GENITALS.

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fboggiano
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:02 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Peru
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:16 pm 
 

Hi. For Metal Archives a band only exist if they have record an album or a demo tape. Doesn´t count that the band play live more than 30 show over 5 years, appear in several zines and two compilations. That doesn´t count for you?


Last edited by fboggiano on Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 2799
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:32 pm 
 

Well, pretty much. That doesn't count. For a band to be added to the Archives it must have AT THE VERY LEAST one Metal release.

Please, read the rules.
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Uncolored, on being a law-abiding citizen wrote:
I'm going to an illegal AnarchoPunkfest in an abandoned disco near a beach. If I'm not here tomorrow look for me in jail.
PhiloFrog, making accurate statements as usual, wrote:
Opsius is Metal as fuck.

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perzine
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:19 pm
Posts: 74
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:24 pm 
 

Can Asbestosisis (Melbourne, Australia) be whitelasted on the basis of the increased death metal sound in their latest CD release?

https://asbestosisis.bandcamp.com/album ... ck-in-time

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