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Mou
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:48 pm
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:23 am 
 

I got this message when tried to add Apokryphon:

Quote:
Please wait until the album is actually released on February 7th. For a band to qualify, it must have at least one (valid) release already out and available to the public at the time of submission. Pre-orders DO NOT count. If the album is in fact available in some form at the time of your submission, you need to provide hard evidence for this.


I included a YouTube link with the full album available which has been shared by the label in social media. Would'n this count as the album is in fact available in some form at the time of your submission?

Thanks in advance :)

PS: I'm just asking to know for future cases, no complains or blaming nobody, my english is not very good and I don't know if it may sound a little harsh.

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PaganiusI
Zee Bombelecher

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm
Posts: 1187
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:58 am 
 

Stream-only releases are not valid releases by our standards, so a youtube stream alone isn't the basis for an inclusion into the database. Which is also stated in our rules ;)
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ThStealthP
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:16 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Dominican Republic
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:45 pm 
 

.


Last edited by ThStealthP on Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:00 pm 
 

Witcher wrote:
Witcher wrote:
World Hate Center (Ger): I have noticed, that there was already some dispute about the band's style in 2011, but back then , only two songs from the album wre provided. Hre is the complete album Reloaded and I think, that the style of the band is really predominantly a mix of rac and hatecore, as the download description says and onot thrash metal or predominantly metal for that matter:
https://www.rac-forum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=255

Thanks and here is another repost from the previous page.
http://88nsm.com/975-world-hate-center- ... -2005.html

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:15 pm 
 

Witcher wrote:
Hunde des Krieges (Germany):
Not thrash metal, but rac, which is similar in style to the personally related band Division Germania or Rebel Hell.
https://aryan-voice.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... -2014.html
http://88nsm.com/8147-hunde-des-krieges ... -2014.html
For comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8hLawNGMLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwiMEr67hzU

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Mou
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:48 pm
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:29 pm 
 

PaganiusI wrote:
Stream-only releases are not valid releases by our standards, so a youtube stream alone isn't the basis for an inclusion into the database. Which is also stated in our rules ;)


Yes, I am aware of that!

The point is they are releasing digital (bandcamp) on feb 7th and physical on feb 14th/21st (cd/vinyl). The album is on pre-order (which is not a valid release in your rules), the digital album has not been fully upload on Bandcamp BUT it has on YouTube.

Maybe is a little weird situation, my question is that according to "If the album is in fact available in some form at the time of your submission, you need to provide hard evidence for this" the band should be approved or it must wait until feb 7th.

Link: https://www.facebook.com/avantgardemusi ... 7201112260

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PDS
The Folk One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 1608
Location: A forest on an island!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:05 pm 
 

Feb 7th. The release needs to be available for sale. Pre-order doesn't not count as being released and a stream before release is like a open-beta.
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Acrobat wrote:
I dunno, I'm a guitarist and it always feels like playing a giant cock. Not just that but live music should hit you in the genitals. It might not if you don't use good amplifiers and your modelling shit goes straight out of the PA. But good music hits you HARD in the GENITALS.

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Pichushkin
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:41 am
Posts: 145
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:12 am 
 

Hi. If I’m asking in the wrong area, please correct me but I must ask why my band Exaltation was rejected?
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Niklas Sanger wrote:
I'd prefer if this thread was more about physical attributes that affect playing or stage presence, or that are a detriment but play with anyway, not a man's penis size.

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PDS
The Folk One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 1608
Location: A forest on an island!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:42 am 
 

Pichushkin wrote:
Hi. If I’m asking in the wrong area, please correct me but I must ask why my band Exaltation was rejected?


viewforum.php?f=27
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Acrobat wrote:
I dunno, I'm a guitarist and it always feels like playing a giant cock. Not just that but live music should hit you in the genitals. It might not if you don't use good amplifiers and your modelling shit goes straight out of the PA. But good music hits you HARD in the GENITALS.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:31 pm 
 

Witcher wrote:
La Brigada (Chile): Hardcore based grindcore, not death/grind.
http://musica-nazionalista.blogspot.com ... -2003.html

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:52 pm 
 

Deleted Irae Satanail. No valid releases.
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Necrodictator
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 104
Location: Zimbabwe
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:07 am 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/A ... Sun/792646
Darkwave/ambient or something like that. Second track is in the same style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxBjpIGN-Bs

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:45 am 
 

Witcher wrote:

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:24 am 
 

Pin-Up Went Down (Fra)- The band plays mixture of avat-garde rock, funk,jazz, disco, soul, trance and other geres with only minimal metal influences. Their style can be compared to Mike Patton's most alternative/avant-garde rock projects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJc1X-i ... FncWIocgle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mEBHqy39Eg
https://pinupwentdown.bandcamp.com/

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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 284
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:07 pm 
 

Life's Decay (France) deleted. Industrial/darkwavey stuff.

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:55 pm 
 

Witcher wrote:
Maggie's Madness (Germany):
The band had always played pure hard rock under this name and their only heavy metal release is the album Love Attack" under the name Wildcat. Mmmaggies's Madness releases are in the hard rock style both a¨fter the band's reformation and also during the eighties:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc5tmD1znho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bbz5b5JEnQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23KiX-c ... eKRx_Wkynl
https://open.spotify.com/artist/7b9yvpxapsF1Mywmygcel6

Deleted.

Lots of open stuff in here, I know. I hope to make a dent in the coming week.
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Ludicus wrote:
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joecubbie
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:03 pm
Posts: 122
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:26 pm 
 

I think The Hunt should be reevaluated. The riffs are heavy, but the songs themselves lean more into hard rock territory like Triumph, Y&T, and Santers. If it does make the cut, it's probably as borderline as borderline gets. Here's the album in question for consideration. Thanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCr0-1YKXPc

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:16 pm 
 

Witcher wrote:

Yikes... deleted.
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Ludicus wrote:
Every day we stray further away from Tony Iommi.

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:12 pm 
 

Witcher wrote:
Gunjah (Germany): Not thrash/crossover, but rapcore/proto-nu-metal.
TThere is a reason, why their albums were recently posted in a blog dedicated to nu-metal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdKba0F_EBI
https://descargasnumetal4ever.blogspot. ... h?q=gunjah

The blog is dead. Can you provide any other means of listening to the two subsequent albums?

Witcher wrote:
Symphony Of Sorrow (Sweden): A mixture of gothic rock , alternative rock and nu-metal. There is only one real groove metal song on the first album and the second album is in a similar style:
https://archive.org/details/SymphonyOfS ... seLost1999
https://archive.org/details/SymphonyOfS ... Hatred2005
http://88nsm.com/2311-symphony-of-sorro ... -1999.html
http://88nsm.com/2311-symphony-of-sorro ... -1999.html

I only listened to the first album, which seemed ambiguous to me. The band was evaluated at least once before by Zodijackyl, however. The report in question. EDIT: Right, I just looked up a few comments about the band in the internal forum back in 2015 and the decision then after reviewing both albums was to keep the band; bizarre and borderline, but sorta acceptable.
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ThStealthP
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:16 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Dominican Republic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:45 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
Witcher wrote:
Gunjah (Germany): Not thrash/crossover, but rapcore/proto-nu-metal.
TThere is a reason, why their albums were recently posted in a blog dedicated to nu-metal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdKba0F_EBI
https://descargasnumetal4ever.blogspot. ... h?q=gunjah

The blog is dead. Can you provide any other means of listening to the two subsequent albums?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdKba0F_EBI

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... aggression

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... orrect+%3F

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ThStealthP
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:16 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Dominican Republic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:58 pm 
 

.


Last edited by ThStealthP on Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:24 pm 
 

Regarding Gunjah: Unfortunately , I could not find any other dowloads of their two other full albums, but here are some songs songs from it plus tow reviews, which describe their style wwell and which suggest ,that the style is the same as on their debut album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LtWbRgUBq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LtWbRgUBq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jra8Dsy24pY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avYKQkqJ-PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tydHDloieTQ
https://www.rockhard.de/reviews/gunjah- ... 07133.html
https://rockhard.de/reviews/gunjah-poli ... 21307.html

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joecubbie
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:03 pm
Posts: 122
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:59 am 
 

Despite formerly being Smokin' Roadie, Tempest (UK) sounds less NWOBHM and more new wave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW8tBJ6l9Mo

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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 709
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:32 pm 
 

Deleted Perseus from Spain, hard/alt rock.
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I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:53 pm 
 

Regarding Tempest (UK): Quite surprisingly , the second song on the ep "Waystin' Time" is a pure NWOBHM song in the style of Smokin' Roadiee, here is a live version of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktDt5ZHNZIs

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joecubbie
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:03 pm
Posts: 122
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:24 am 
 

Witcher wrote:
Regarding Tempest (UK): Quite surprisingly , the second song on the ep "Waystin' Time" is a pure NWOBHM song in the style of Smokin' Roadiee, here is a live version of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktDt5ZHNZIs


I was looking for a sample of the second track, but couldn't find one. This is definitely NWOBHM. I'm just not sure if one NWOBHM song and a quirky new wave track cuts it. I'll let the mods decide. Thanks for your help.

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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:35 pm 
 

I’d like to bring up Pelican for deletion.

https://pelicansl.bandcamp.com
https://pelican.bandcamp.com/
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Pelican/9712

I’ve skimmed all their full-lengths and a couple EPs and I only hear post-rock atmospherics, two note chugs and distorted power chords. “What We All Come To Need” probably has their most metal material on it, but it’s a moot point because the second half of the album is pure rock, in my opinion. They’ve been on here for over fifteen years now and I’m surprised that no one has tried to get rid of them. Thoughts?
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Five_Nails wrote:
This review is lazy garbage that would pass as a two-pager in a 100 level community college course solely because the student was in the thirteenth grade and actually passed something in that wasn't written on rolling papers.

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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 709
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:26 pm 
 

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
They’ve been on here for over fifteen years now and I’m surprised that no one has tried to get rid of them. Thoughts?

They're one of the biggest and most important post-metal bands.
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Xenophon wrote:
I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.

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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:27 pm 
 

Storm of the Light's Bane wrote:
Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
They’ve been on here for over fifteen years now and I’m surprised that no one has tried to get rid of them. Thoughts?

They're one of the biggest and most important post-metal bands.


Yet there's no heavy metal in their music. Listen to Mammoth from their debut EP. Single-note chugs 80 percent of the way through, and since when is that metal? How Pelican can somehow have enough heavy metal riffs to qualify on this site when bands that have more heavy metal riffs in one album than Pelican has played in their entire existence (e.g. BTBAM and "the silent circus") are blacklisted make no sense. Unless personal bias comes into play.
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Five_Nails wrote:
This review is lazy garbage that would pass as a two-pager in a 100 level community college course solely because the student was in the thirteenth grade and actually passed something in that wasn't written on rolling papers.

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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 709
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:17 am 
 

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
Storm of the Light's Bane wrote:
Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
They’ve been on here for over fifteen years now and I’m surprised that no one has tried to get rid of them. Thoughts?

They're one of the biggest and most important post-metal bands.


Yet there's no heavy metal in their music. Listen to Mammoth from their debut EP. Single-note chugs 80 percent of the way through, and since when is that metal? How Pelican can somehow have enough heavy metal riffs to qualify on this site when bands that have more heavy metal riffs in one album than Pelican has played in their entire existence (e.g. BTBAM and "the silent circus") are blacklisted make no sense. Unless personal bias comes into play.

Dude... Pelican is most definitely acceptable metal. Australasia is pretty unambiguous post-/sludge metal, as is pretty much all of their stuff I know. Please educate yourself on what post-metal is.

(also btw I personally think BTBAM is borderline, but acceptable so take your "personal bias" BS somewhere else.)
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Xenophon wrote:
I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.

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TheGrimWombat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1572
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:05 am 
 

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
Storm of the Light's Bane wrote:
Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
They’ve been on here for over fifteen years now and I’m surprised that no one has tried to get rid of them. Thoughts?

They're one of the biggest and most important post-metal bands.


Yet there's no heavy metal in their music. Listen to Mammoth from their debut EP. Single-note chugs 80 percent of the way through, and since when is that metal? How Pelican can somehow have enough heavy metal riffs to qualify on this site when bands that have more heavy metal riffs in one album than Pelican has played in their entire existence (e.g. BTBAM and "the silent circus") are blacklisted make no sense. Unless personal bias comes into play.


I'm not sure trolling is encouraged on these forums.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:59 am 
 

TheGrimWombat wrote:
I'm not sure trolling is encouraged on these forums.


I’m not trolling. I sincerely hear little to no heavy metal guitar riffs in the music of Pelican. All I hear are power chords and atmosphere with the occasional melody or metal riff over the top.
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Five_Nails wrote:
This review is lazy garbage that would pass as a two-pager in a 100 level community college course solely because the student was in the thirteenth grade and actually passed something in that wasn't written on rolling papers.

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:41 pm 
 

Regarding Gunjah, the debut album seems easily metal enough. Riffs all over the place, crossover thrash with some groove/"funk metal" mixed in, but not even borderline.
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Ludicus wrote:
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:15 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
Regarding Gunjah, the debut album seems easily metal enough. Riffs all over the place, crossover thrash with some groove/"funk metal" mixed in, but not even borderline.


Nevermind, thanks for the rereview and the already removed bands. One side qustion: Please, can I count with periodical checkings of my (and not to sound selfish, other users') requests will be handled in a smilar way in foreseeable future? Thanks.

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:28 pm 
 

As I said previously, I am trying to catch up with the thread, but I don't always have the time (let alone the motivation). I'm also trying to keep the band queue in check (which is almost at full capacity again), as well as band appeals. I've also been sick these past few days, which cut down on my planned site work considerably. I know things don't always move quickly here, but please have some patience.
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Ludicus wrote:
Every day we stray further away from Tony Iommi.

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:15 am 
 

Still catching up...

Witcher wrote:
Scarlet Red (USA)- pure hard rock, except for the song "Fight Fire":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMj3vXt ... PDGXfHT51v

Deleted.

Witcher wrote:
Punch'N'Judy (Ger):
Actually a Deutschrock/Folk rock band in the style of In Extremo, Subway to Sally and Saltatio Mortis:
https://www.youtube.com/user/punchnjudyNEWs
https://open.spotify.com/artist/177zF3Sk96VelzRWJOnW5U

I've asked a fellow mod who is more into this style to check it out.

Witcher wrote:

Still needs to be looked at. Quoting it for reference.

Witcher wrote:
World Hate Center (Ger): I have noticed, that there was already some dispute about the band's style in 2011, but back then , only two songs from the album wre provided. Hre is the complete album Reloaded and I think, that the style of the band is really predominantly a mix of rac and hatecore, as the download description says and onot thrash metal or predominantly metal for that matter:
https://www.rac-forum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=255

Quote:
http://88nsm.com/975-world-hate-center- ... -2005.html

First link throws up a privacy error for me, so I'm not gonna touch that. In the second one, the download link doesn't work for me.

Witcher wrote:
Hunde des Krieges (Germany):
Not thrash metal, but rac, which is similar in style to the personally related band Division Germania or Rebel Hell.
https://aryan-voice.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... -2014.html
http://88nsm.com/8147-hunde-des-krieges ... -2014.html
For comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8hLawNGMLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwiMEr67hzU

Neither of those links contain a usable download. Unfortunately the sample link that was included with the original sub is dead as well.

@ThStealthP: I would advise against posting huge lists of bands from a borderline genre in this thread when you're still a relative newcomer to this site and -not to sugarcoat it- still have a lot to learn. I suggest getting a feel for what MA considers to be acceptable and what it doesn't first and then only post about bands you're reasonably sure don't belong in here. Sorry, but this thread is cluttered enough as it is, I simply do not have the energy to go over dozens of -core bands with a microscope right now, bands that telling from some of Witcher's comments might turn out to be fine anyway.
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Ludicus wrote:
Every day we stray further away from Tony Iommi.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:51 am 
 

World Hate Center:
Direct links for download:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/32dbl5li8 ... r.rar/file
https://mega.nz/#!41hWjB7C!GiKa23GPrduO ... tkP3sQyN2k

HHunde des Krieges: I hope, that these limks will work:
http://www.rac-forum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=34026
http://88nsm.com/8147-hunde-des-krieges ... -2014.html

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:55 am 
 

WHC works, HdK doesn't.
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Ludicus wrote:
Every day we stray further away from Tony Iommi.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6163
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:22 am 
 

Fortunately I have been albe to save the HDK album, so I may be able to upload it again, but it will take some time, so possibly next week.

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10209
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:30 am 
 

Alright, thanks. I got the WHC album, I'll comment on it in my next post here.
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Ludicus wrote:
Every day we stray further away from Tony Iommi.

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