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Muhammadabbadabba
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Posts: 1291
Location: R'lyeh
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:02 am 
 

Adding my report for Stigmata to this thread.

While submitting this band on the basis of Conditioned to Murder, I hastily presumed the band's previous material was pure Hardcore Punk. Honestly, the band always had Metal influences but they dominated the very last album's music. Everything else is a Metalcore stew comprised of everything from '90s Metalcore to Groove Metal and even Crossover Thrash in places.

Suggestion: Metalcore with Crossover/Groove/Thrash Metal influences

Source/Evidence:
1990 demo (Metalcore/Crossover Thrash):
https://youtu.be/7beKA-HwJeQ

The Heart Grows Harder (Metalcore/Groove Metal/Crossover Thrash)
https://youtu.be/duPNi3nzipA

Calling of the Just (Metalcore/Groove Metal/Crossover Thrash):
https://youtu.be/3KOInLUjAEA

Hymns of an Unknown God (Metalcore/Groove Metal):
https://youtu.be/vFrIlUbv2-g

Do Unto Others (Metalcore/Thrash/Groove Metal):
https://youtu.be/cUSucmlG7Gw

Conditioned to Murder (Groove Metal/Metalcore):
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... SmISd_-xP8
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Necrodictator
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Zimbabwe
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 10:29 am 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/St ... 3540507722
Very prominent US power metal elements, so heavy/power metal would suit best IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDgY3dE7jQY

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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:18 pm 
 

The last couple posted here are taken care of - thanks. Here are the ones that I believe are still pending:
- Swashbuckle
- Stercore
- Walking Corpse Syndrome
- God of Malice
- Beyond the Black
- Beast in Black

Additional opinion needed for user S9NE on these bands:
- Triddana, Ethernity, Poetica, Rising Storm

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Kennermahn
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:36 am
Posts: 561
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:50 am 
 

Impetus
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Impetus/3540296542

This band is listed as death/doom metal but this is by no means death/doom, it's more like groove/thrash/crossover something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L57SOJZGEPo

An earlier demo does have the death/doom sound:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cqfMCLKwUI

I guess the right genre would be:
Doom/Death Metal, Groove/Thrash Metal
?

Thanks

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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 2993
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:05 pm 
 

Kennermahn wrote:
Impetus

Fixed.
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Opsius is Metal as fuck.

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Kennermahn
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:36 am
Posts: 561
PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2022 12:22 pm 
 

OpsiusCato wrote:
Kennermahn wrote:
Impetus

Fixed.


Thanks!

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AJManiac666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Costa Rica
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 2:33 am 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sl ... 3540305712

It's probably heavy/power metal right there

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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:43 pm 
 

Fixed the last one.

Unless they were updated in the last 4 weeks and not mentioned here, these are pending:
- Swashbuckle
- Stercore
- Walking Corpse Syndrome
- God of Malice
- Beyond the Black
- Beast in Black

Additional opinion needed for user S9NE on these bands:
- Triddana, Ethernity, Poetica, Rising Storm

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TheGrimWombat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1974
PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2022 3:38 pm 
 

Apparently, the other releases by Souldozer (https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/So ... 3540508967) were more in the stoner rock vein. According to this review as well as their own bio on their archived website.

https://reanimatedcerebralannotations.b ... ludge.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20050208070 ... dozer.com/
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AJManiac666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Costa Rica
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 9:52 pm 
 

There are some power metal present in the NWOBHM band ARC

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/ARC/16939

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K9J7QmF7t-g

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yungstirjoey666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 406
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:05 pm 
 

Should metalcore bands like Killswitch and As I Lay Dying must be renamed to "melodic metalcore?" Also, should all bands with the "NWOBHM" label have a "heavy metal" label next to it as well?

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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 398
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:27 pm 
 

Poetica - changed to "symphonic gothic metal with electronic elements"

Beyond the Black - changed to "symphonic metal/rock"

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S9NE
Magical Metal Girl

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:58 am
Posts: 198
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:41 pm 
 

I already updated Triddana a while back, seemed fair to specify it as celtic folk. Also good call on Poetica, TheUnhinged.
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AJManiac666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Costa Rica
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:18 pm 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Battle_Bratt/1475

not really straight power metal for their early material so should be Heavy/Power Metal (early)

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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2022 7:24 pm 
 

AJManiac666 wrote:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Battle_Bratt/1475

not really straight power metal for their early material so should be Heavy/Power Metal (early)

Fixed.

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AJManiac666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Costa Rica
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 4:25 pm 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Mi ... 3540303075

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Vigilante/112562

Heavy/Power Metal changes

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TheGrimWombat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1974
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2022 7:40 pm 
 

TheGrimWombat wrote:
Apparently, the other releases by Souldozer (https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/So ... 3540508967) were more in the stoner rock vein. According to this review as well as their own bio on their archived website.

https://reanimatedcerebralannotations.b ... ludge.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20050208070 ... dozer.com/


I'm suggesting we just add "/rock" to the end of the current genre.
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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:23 am 
 

The last few are taken care of (Misty Rox being changed to heavy metal/hard rock instead of heavy/power metal, and Vigilante being changed to progressive heavy/power metal. They have some thrash metal elements, but not enough to add/overcomplicate the genre further). AJmaniac, about your suggestion to add power metal to Arc, the genre is fine as is I think. A lot of NWOBHM bands had the very early power metal sound, and hard rock elements.

These are the ones that I think still need to be looked into:
- Swashbuckle
- Stercore
- Walking Corpse Syndrome
- God of Malice
- Beyond the Black
- Beast in Black

Additional opinion needed for user S9NE on these bands:
- Ethernity, Rising Storm

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ThStealthK
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:39 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Dominican Republic
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 12:42 pm 
 

Thrash/Groove Metal (early); Nu-Metal (later)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... AfsH4EhZqo
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... KzzxCNWL6U
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... FZsGkVKTQU
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... 00QO3fMKw0
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Gryn/47107
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AJManiac666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Costa Rica
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:14 pm 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Fatt_Matt/79267

Heavy/Power Metal change

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Kennermahn
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:36 am
Posts: 561
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:47 pm 
 

ThStealthK wrote:


I agree with this, updated

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ThStealthK
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:39 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Dominican Republic
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:26 pm 
 

Southern/Groove/Nu-Metal:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... 08Xx_T9ETw
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/So ... 3540278384
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BLMcommunist
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:29 am
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 10:52 am 
 

I think Def Leppards genre should be changed, they only made 1 nwobhm album and 2 hard rock albums, so I don't think calling their mid era stuff hard rock works, I'd call em nwobhm/hard rock(early) glam/pop rock(later)

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AJManiac666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Costa Rica
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:12 pm 
 

BLMcommunist wrote:
I think Def Leppards genre should be changed, they only made 1 nwobhm album and 2 hard rock albums, so I don't think calling their mid era stuff hard rock works, I'd call em nwobhm/hard rock(early) glam/pop rock(later)


Regarding Def Leppard it's better to keep their current genre tags that way.

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yungstirjoey666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 406
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:37 am 
 

I'd like to add in Avantasia; their post-Metal Opera discography still has power metal tracks in them (Savior in the Clockwork, The Wicked Rule the Night, Babylon Vampires), but they often fall in the lines with hard rock/pop rock, especially with singles such as Lost in Space, Mystery of a Blood Red Rose, and Dying for an Angel. Metal Opera albums are 100% pure metal and even some of their new stuff such as Mystery of Time and Moonglow, so they still belong in the Archives. I'd say symphonic power metal/rock is a good label for them.

Bands such as Kamelot and Dreamtale are labeled as "melodic power metal." I think melodic is a redundant descriptor for power metal (especially EU power metal), since it is already melodic for the most part. I also think Kamelot and Trans-Siberian-Orchestra should have the "symphonic" label on them since they have enough symphonic elements. Also Rhapsody of Fire should have "neoclassical."

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yungstirjoey666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 406
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:24 pm 
 

Should "with death metal influences" be augmented in Epica's genre? They're not explicitly death metal, but Mark Jansen's (mediocre) death growls are very prevalent in the music.

Spoiler: show



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MDL
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:12 pm
Posts: 929
Location: Unknown
PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:38 pm 
 

About Epica, I disagree. The usage of harsh vocals is pretty much a standard for many symphonic/power/gothic metal bands nowadays, unfortunately, and became part of their identity. In that case, we would also add such descriptor for bands like Scarleth, Volturian, Ignea and Demencia Mortalis. Also because the growling isn't a consistent and proeminent part of all of Epica's discography.
Since we're on the topic, I believe they also deserve the "Progressive" tag. They've always had the complex songwriting for long compositions and the inclusion of world music elements that would make a band like Angra or Edu Falaschi solo to be deemed as "progressive". Their most recent outputs have been mostly progressive on the sense of a more technical songwriting and instrumental approach and ambition to a common symphonic power metal sound. So, maybe "Symphonic/Progressive Metal".

Spoiler: show





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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
Posts: 2993
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:27 am 
 

yungstirjoey666 wrote:
Should "with death metal influences" be augmented in Epica's genre?

Eh... No. Not at all.

Using growls =/= Death Metal.
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Uncolored, on being a law-abiding citizen wrote:
I'm going to an illegal AnarchoPunkfest in an abandoned disco near a beach. If I'm not here tomorrow look for me in jail.
PhiloFrog, making accurate statements as usual, wrote:
Opsius is Metal as fuck.

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yungstirjoey666
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 am
Posts: 406
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:39 pm 
 

I guess I understand the case with Epica; they should at least be considered "symphonic prog metal" or something, since they do tend to use some more unconvential structures in their music.

Anyways, I am wondering about The Raven Age's label as "melodic groove/metalcore." I'm not entirely sure where the "groove" metal comes from, melodic or not, and while they do have songs that are mid-tempo (eg. The Day the World Stood Still), I wouldn't really consider them "groove metal" per se; I think "melodic metalcore/heavy metal" makes more sense imo (unless if the Archives only recognizes "heavy metal" as only traditional heavy metal style.

Also As I Lay Dying and Killswitch Engage should be renamed to "melodic metalcore" to differentiate from metallic hardcore. Examples:

Spoiler: show
AILD:

KSE:


I'm just going back to repeat some stuff from my old posts, this time with audio links:


I'd like to point out Rhapsody of Fire as neoclassical metal; I mean, Galneryus and Versailles are also given this label as well, so why not?

Spoiler: show





Avantasia should have an added "rock" label since they've been producing hard rock/pop rock singles pretty often, though they're still in the symphonic power metal camp:

Spoiler: show





Also Kamelot should have "symphonic" in their genre label, since their orchestras sould very authentic. Also I'm not entirely sure why they're given the "progressive" label:
Spoiler: show



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AJManiac666
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Costa Rica
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:06 am 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Eden/24657

http://www.metal-samples.com/search/label/Eden

There are some USPM elements

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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:13 am 
 

Eden - seems fine with just Heavy Metal. Would sooner add Hard Rock than Power Metal, but don't think that it needs that either.

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MuraColony
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:14 am
Posts: 4
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:49 pm 
 

I previously reported an error of the genre of the band, Brutal Decay, but rejected twice.
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Br ... 3540511832

I just can't get it because the band is obviously a Thrash Metal band and doesn't have Grindcore elements.

I hope this site shows more correct information. Sorry if this place is inappropriate for this kind of post.

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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:51 pm 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/803526

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MuraColony
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:14 am
Posts: 4
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:50 am 
 

KingSpooky wrote:
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/803526


Thank you, I've read that already. I'm a bit disappointed because there was no discussion about the band's genre.

I would appreciate if someone corrects the genre to Thrash Metal only.

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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:54 am 
 

It could use some more opinions. Since the riffing is the main thing that should be taken into consideration, it should be noted that the -core style vocals and buried guitar production paired with vocals and drums dominating the mix detract from what one would think of as thrash metal, so when listening try not to let that affect the determination too much.

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Kennermahn
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:36 am
Posts: 561
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:57 am 
 

MuraColony wrote:
KingSpooky wrote:
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/803526


Thank you, I've read that already. I'm a bit disappointed because there was no discussion about the band's genre.

I would appreciate if someone corrects the genre to Thrash Metal only.


Well, you could meet us halfway here, I'd agree with the genre Thrash Metal with Grindcore influences, implying that the grindcore influences are minor, but this definitely doesn't sound like Exodus, if you know what I mean.

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MuraColony
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:14 am
Posts: 4
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:21 pm 
 

Kennermahn wrote:
MuraColony wrote:
KingSpooky wrote:
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/803526


Thank you, I've read that already. I'm a bit disappointed because there was no discussion about the band's genre.

I would appreciate if someone corrects the genre to Thrash Metal only.


Well, you could meet us halfway here, I'd agree with the genre Thrash Metal with Grindcore influences, implying that the grindcore influences are minor, but this definitely doesn't sound like Exodus, if you know what I mean.


Thanks for your reply.
Maybe this is a little complicated discussion.

First of all, I don't think what makes a band Thrash Metal means it sounds like Exodus.
Not all Thrash Metal bands have riffs that sound like Exodus, I think some of you would agree with that.

Also, we need to take into consideration that Grindcore itself has Thrash Metal influences, which makes this topic confusing.
In my opinion, one of the important elements of Grindcore is blast beats, which the band Brutal Decay doesn't have.
I think Hardcore influences are important for Grindcore too.

I think there are many Thrash Metal demos which productions are poor, too.

I would appreciate if we could discuss a little more.

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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:32 pm 
 

I went ahead and changed the genre to Thrash Metal with Grindcore elements. That seems to be a good compromise for now. There are 2 songs so far that can be assessed, under 6 minutes of material, so there's very little that can be taken from that. It doesn't make sense to spend any more time on putting such a short discography under a microscope. There are nearly 700 reports in queue with more serious issues, and unfortunately sometimes not everyone is in agreement. Kennermahn and I have heard your points, and each put a fair amount of time into this. It isn't a very considerate thing to badger the staff repeatedly about a small issue like this. Good luck with your project.

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TheGrimWombat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1974
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:04 am 
 

My two cents is this guy has a bit of an argument. These two songs sound very alike to every other basement demo by however many south american bands that are listed as death/thrash metal on metal archives that kind of have a sound reminiscent to "cogumelo bands", but not quite, if you get what I mean.
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KingSpooky
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:24 pm
Posts: 2489
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:38 am 
 

Thanks for your opinion, as well. If someone feels strongly that the genre should be different than how it is now, feel free to make the adjustment.

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