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MRmehman
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:34 pm
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Location: The Painted World of Ariamis
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 1:33 pm 
 

How do the admins feel about "war metal" as a genre? Will it be acceptable on Metal Archives at some point? I've found it's a widely accepted term outside of the archives (RYM, Bandcamp) and there's a good number of notable bands who identify themselves using the term, though it can be difficult to define at times. I'm interested to hear what senior MA members/staff have to say about this.
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Auselesspileofflesh
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:41 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 8:37 pm 
 

I've always put bands under the "War Metal" tag under the rawer death/black/thrash hybrids. I've never felt it to be a legitimate sub-genre, more so "kvlt" metallers trying to be more "kvlt".

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Goatfangs
58.2% Metal

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:52 pm 
 

I remember a long time ago, Cannibal Corpse was listed here as "Gore metal", and in many ways, that is an apt description. Gore metal is death metal about gory subjects. But what else defines it and separates it from death metal outside of lyrical content?

Pornogrind and Goregrind seem to be labeled based on lyrical content, but it should also be noted that both genres (which, because I haven't really explored much of, I kinda see them as the same thing) got a nickname after a particular musical style first developed. Gurgled vocals, noisy riffs (if there even any) and endless gravity blasts dominate many of the bands of either genre.

War metal kinda has its own shtick going on, but musically it is (typically raw) black metal with varying degrees of thrash and death metal. I think it is differentiated from "blackened death metal", which is death metal with black metal elements. Compare late Behemoth to Blasphemy or Archgoat. Goatwhore has a crisp production with sludge influenced riffs, rather than raw blasting brutality.

But I admit, it would be amusing to see a band labeled "Raw War Metal"
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NurseWitchWound
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:33 am
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 3:17 pm 
 

War metal is just a distinct type of playing Black/Death Metal. It can't be anything outside of these except the occasional Grind also. Same with 'Slam' but I don't know why it's recently been added as a genre because it's the same as Brutal Death Metal but it's just a certain style of playing that relies on constant chugging, no skankbeats, deep gutturals and shit production, but most the "slam" bands today aren't slam in the slightest, a lot of them are just straight up deathcore, especially some of the shit bands labelled as "slam" on this site.
Might as well start adding more stupid 00s BM terms like "Black Metal/Norsecore" on Dark Funeral and Marduk's pages or "Symphonic Black Metal/FAGGOTH" on Dimmu Borgir, CoF and Ancient's pages.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:39 pm 
 

war metal is a bit like nwobhm, not really a genre but also clearly a distinct thing. Its not just black/death either its more a direct continuation of 80s hodgepodge extreme metal with some bands leaning more towards death metal and some more to thrash or grind. The question is whats the difference between style, movement and subgenre?

imo it would help if MA started recognizing it as a distinct movement because it would make things more clear.

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Goatfangs
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2021 3:58 pm 
 

Slam is definitely a distinct style, and I don't really see it as being like deathcore, although there are a lot of slam bands that use deathcore/hardcore elements. I think the addition of this tag greatly depended on users filing reports on bands known to play some form of slam.

If War Metal is accepted as a genre tag, the same process would be necessary.

The site used to label certain bands as "Mallcore", which isn't really a genre but rather a derisive nickname for "Nu Metal". I think I argued for the switch of terms to "Nu Metal" because it would present a neutral POV on the band pages.
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:22 am 
 

Nah, it's just a little short hand pseudo sub-sub genre, not unlike norsecore or torture doom. A term that makes sense when realllllyyy drilling down to groupings in active discussion between the knowledgable, but not worth chucking up there as the official genre. It's just a very narrow flavour of black/thrash/death metal. I'd say it's probably the closest to getting that status, but isn't really worth it, the consistent genre tag and similar artist tab does the trick.
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funeralravens
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:08 pm
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:56 pm 
 

I personally believe that war metal should be a separate subgenre rather than just black/death metal. The reason for this is because war metal has nothing to do with black metal. War metal is a mixture of death metal and the first wave of black metal, which is a subgenre of thrash metal and not proper black metal.

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OuTbREaKRT
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 4:08 pm
Posts: 18
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:52 pm 
 

We already have a bunch of war metal on the database, it's just that the term "bestial black metal" seems to be preferred here.

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Axel666MoWi
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:57 pm
Posts: 171
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:09 am 
 

I don't know about "war metal" but "war black metal" should definitely be something. I created a topic some years ago about this. War Black Metal could be the "brutal death metal" of black metal. To be honest I hardly see how we can just put Burzum and Marduk (for example) under the same tag which is just "black metal".
On the archives the genre "medieval black metal" exists, but what is it supposed to mean? How can this be a thing and not "war black metal" which would actually be defined by some real and concrete elements. To me Medieval Black Metal is only related to the lyrics/visuals... It's like adding as a tag nsbm, rabm, unblack or some things like satanic black metal. Plus there's only 50 bands under this tag, and some I would have guessed to be are not.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:39 pm 
 

there are def a few war metal bands that are more death metal leaning or grindcore leaning than black metal though

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funeralravens
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:08 pm
Posts: 295
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:51 pm 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
there are def a few war metal bands that are more death metal leaning or grindcore leaning than black metal though

Most war metal bands actually have more in common with death metal and thrash metal rather than real black metal bands like Burzum, Darkthrone, Mayhem, etc. The sound is completely different. To lump it into the same group as bands who fuse real black metal with death metal is ridiculous.
Axel666MoWi wrote:
I don't know about "war metal" but "war black metal" should definitely be something. I created a topic some years ago about this. War Black Metal could be the "brutal death metal" of black metal. To be honest I hardly see how we can just put Burzum and Marduk (for example) under the same tag which is just "black metal".
On the archives the genre "medieval black metal" exists, but what is it supposed to mean? How can this be a thing and not "war black metal" which would actually be defined by some real and concrete elements. To me Medieval Black Metal is only related to the lyrics/visuals... It's like adding as a tag nsbm, rabm, unblack or some things like satanic black metal. Plus there's only 50 bands under this tag, and some I would have guessed to be are not.

Marduk is not war metal, they are just black metal that happens to be really brutal. I don't think brutal black metal deserves to be a separate genre.
As for medieval black metal, I think it's a real thing, but some bands belonging to this subgenre for some reason lack the tag. Obsequiae is pretty much the biggest band in this subgenre, but the mods for some reason stubbornly refuse to give them the genre they deserve.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:01 pm 
 

Maybe if you consider Norwegian bm the only purely BM sound but I think thats just a strain of bm that just really blew up.

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GuardAwakening
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 384
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:34 am 
 

Goatfangs wrote:

The site used to label certain bands as "Mallcore", which isn't really a genre but rather a derisive nickname for "Nu Metal". I think I argued for the switch of terms to "Nu Metal" because it would present a neutral POV on the band pages.


All mentions of "mallcore" have actually been entirely removed sort of recently, I even brought it up with a moderator that it may be a good idea to have that word abolished from the "rules" page and instead have it switched out for the real genre name (nu metal).

And I agree that word "mallcore" is (was) really cringe.

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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 2308
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 4:09 am 
 

To me war metal is more about the band's general aesthetic than the music itself, and after all the music itself should be what dictates the genre description.

For simplicity's sake and to avoid too many proprietary genre descriptions I would rather war metal bands keep their 'black/death metal' designation.

For the same reason I think the 'depressive black metal' tag should be merged with 'atmospheric black metal', because the whole 'depressive' bit I feel refers more to the band's aesthetic than the music which in many cases is more or less interchangeable with atmospheric black metal.
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collingwood77
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Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:33 pm 
 

I don't see why not, I think it is a sound and an aesthetic as well as a lyrical perspective, e.g. bands like Impiety and Deiphago. Just saying it is Black Metal would not be super informative in those two cases.

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TheLoneForest
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:16 pm
Posts: 760
Location: Quebec
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:40 pm 
 

Zerberus wrote:
To me war metal is more about the band's general aesthetic than the music itself, and after all the music itself should be what dictates the genre description.

For simplicity's sake and to avoid too many proprietary genre descriptions I would rather war metal bands keep their 'black/death metal' designation.

For the same reason I think the 'depressive black metal' tag should be merged with 'atmospheric black metal', because the whole 'depressive' bit I feel refers more to the band's aesthetic than the music which in many cases is more or less interchangeable with atmospheric black metal.


I disagree with the last bit. Apati, Lifelover and Psychonaut 4 do not sound like Paysage d'hiver or Blut aus Nord. Depressive Black Metal is just as seperate from black metal as Atmospheric black metal is

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DecapitatedGnome
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:44 am
Posts: 1
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:50 am 
 

Interesting discussion. Would War Metal be a description solely based on lyric content? 1914 is the first band I listened to that I would put into this category.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5570
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:08 pm 
 

no lyrical content has little to do with it.
War metal is basically uncrystallised 80s extreme metal but made after the 80s but with the push for bigger extremes that characterizes both death and black metal. Generally it tends to be closer to black metal than death metal but there are plenty of bands that lean towards thrash and grindcore influence is common.

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MRmehman
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:34 pm
Posts: 788
Location: The Painted World of Ariamis
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:43 pm 
 

OuTbREaKRT wrote:
We already have a bunch of war metal on the database, it's just that the term "bestial black metal" seems to be preferred here.

Is that an actual genre tag? I've never seen it used before.
DecapitatedGnome wrote:
Interesting discussion. Would War Metal be a description solely based on lyric content? 1914 is the first band I listened to that I would put into this category.

MA doesn't use lyrical themes to decide genres (I'm sure exeptions exist but eh) and I don't think 1914's sound constitutes what most people would call war metal, sadly. Great band never-the-less.
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GuardAwakening
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 384
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 6:14 pm 
 

NurseWitchWound wrote:
War metal is just a distinct type of playing Black/Death Metal. It can't be anything outside of these except the occasional Grind also. Same with 'Slam' but I don't know why it's recently been added as a genre because it's the same as Brutal Death Metal but it's just a certain style of playing that relies on constant chugging, no skankbeats, deep gutturals and shit production, but most the "slam" bands today aren't slam in the slightest, a lot of them are just straight up deathcore, especially some of the shit bands labelled as "slam" on this site.
Might as well start adding more stupid 00s BM terms like "Black Metal/Norsecore" on Dark Funeral and Marduk's pages or "Symphonic Black Metal/FAGGOTH" on Dimmu Borgir, CoF and Ancient's pages.


Slam death metal is just brutal death metal but just with most (if not all) the riffs being made into slams.
It’s got nothing to do with the production, idk where your criticism of “shit production” comes from unless you’re referring to those god awful high school kid projects that litter the archives and give the genre a bad name.

But those points aside i was completely in favor when it was made an official genre label on the site. i even asked the staff if they’d consider it all the way back in 2015.
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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 4651
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:04 am 
 

I really hope it's never accepted. It's used incorrectly most of the time and it just leads to pointless discussion by scene tourists that confuse war metal and black/death. I'm really tired of explaining bands like Teitanblood, Knelt Rote and Infernal Coil aren't war metal. For example Rateyourmusic tags all black/death as war metal and it's a fucking mess (like most tags on that website to be honest).

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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 4651
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:08 am 
 

TheLoneForest wrote:
Zerberus wrote:
To me war metal is more about the band's general aesthetic than the music itself, and after all the music itself should be what dictates the genre description.

For simplicity's sake and to avoid too many proprietary genre descriptions I would rather war metal bands keep their 'black/death metal' designation.

For the same reason I think the 'depressive black metal' tag should be merged with 'atmospheric black metal', because the whole 'depressive' bit I feel refers more to the band's aesthetic than the music which in many cases is more or less interchangeable with atmospheric black metal.


I disagree with the last bit. Apati, Lifelover and Psychonaut 4 do not sound like Paysage d'hiver or Blut aus Nord. Depressive Black Metal is just as seperate from black metal as Atmospheric black metal is

That's mainly because Lifelover and Psychonaut 4 mix black metal with post/punk and alternative rock. They are far from being just "black metal bands". Apati second album isn't even black metal imho, it's mostly post rock, so it's only logical it doesn't sound like Paysage d'Hiver.

Edit: typo.


Last edited by Gravetemplar on Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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GuardAwakening
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 384
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 11:51 pm 
 

Honestly i sort of hoped for a while that “war metal” could become a viable genre on here rather than just calling it “black/death metal”. it would do a good job at separating bands that sounds like ya know, Blasphemy and Black Witchery from something that sounds like Behemoth and Noctem, there should definitely be some sort of notation that separates those two categories of sounds from one another.

i mean really, why not?
there’s already a couple of unnecessary genre prefixes which i still don’t understand what tf they’re supposed to mean
...like idk what “pagan metal” even is, yet that’s used on here.
Nor do i really get what “epic” means in a genre either. And they must not be that important cuz i’ve been using MA for years & years to browse bands by genre and it’s never proved to be an issue. In contrast to that, “war metal” would actually be useful (at least to me).

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collingwood77
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Posts: 334
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:21 pm 
 

Some of the biggest South East Asian metal bands are War Metal so you would tend to call it a genre over there, e.g. Impiety (Singapore), Deiphago (Philippines), Warkvlt (Indonesia). War Metal has a distinct lyrical focus, sound and aesthetic (bullet-belts, etc.), which differ from Black Metal and Death Metal. The ideology and sound is all about fighting a war rather than depressive or melancholic introspection or singing about nature.

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