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~Guest 1396208
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2021 1:33 am
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 11:22 pm 
 

imo war metal definitely has enough of its own characteristics to be considered a separate genre but im curious as to see how other ppl feel about this

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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:20 am 
 

They think the black/thrash/death metal covers it well enough. Personally I think it'd be neat just to pull it apart, I mean we use bloody "pagan metal" which is far less well defined, but eh, is what it is.
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DeathFusion
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:25 pm
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Location: Norway
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:47 am 
 

I agree, I associate black/death more with something like Behemoth.

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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
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Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 8:33 am 
 

I agree that there's pretty far between the sound of Behemoth and Blasphemy, but at the same time I think there would be too many borderline bands that overlap considerably between the "war metal" and "black/death metal" terms. The same can obviously be said for viking- and pagan metal, but I don't consider either of those real genres either.
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EvergreenSherbert
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:48 pm
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:23 am 
 

War metal can be ambiguous I think. But there are bullshit ambiguous genres on the archives too so I don't know.

This should probably be moved to Suggestions and Complaints, is there a mod we should message for that?
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pyratebastard
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:05 pm
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Location: Pacific Northwest US
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 1:34 pm 
 

What are the musical characteristics that set war metal apart? I know that war is a very common lyrical theme in most metal subgenres. Do you have any examples of bands that fit the 'war metal' genre?
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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 2343
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 6:44 pm 
 

pyratebastard wrote:
What are the musical characteristics that set war metal apart? I know that war is a very common lyrical theme in most metal subgenres. Do you have any examples of bands that fit the 'war metal' genre?

Listen to some of these songs in the spoiler, and maybe you'll understand why one would want to separate the genre from stuff like Behemoth or Belphegor.

Spoiler: show




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Zerberus
Metalhead

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Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 3:12 am 
 

My problem with the distinction between war metal and black/death metal is that there are many bands that are associated with the term that don't really sound alike.
Archgoat and Impiety, as examples, both sound like a mix of black and death metal, but not all that much like Blasphemy or Revenge. And yet they are often associated with the war metal term.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5570
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2022 6:25 pm 
 

Zerberus wrote:
My problem with the distinction between war metal and black/death metal is that there are many bands that are associated with the term that don't really sound alike.
Archgoat and Impiety, as examples, both sound like a mix of black and death metal, but not all that much like Blasphemy or Revenge. And yet they are often associated with the war metal term.


Well that is kinda like any other metal genre. I mean how similar are Emperor and Von?

War metal is in my opinion the direct continuation of 80s extreme metal. So basically before extreme metal really crystallised into specific subgenres. There are a couple variations on this sound like some bands lean more towards death metal like Impiety, some bands lean more towards thrash(most bands from South America and Bestial Warlust from Australia), some bands lean more towards black metal(Archgoat) and lastly the Canadian style has the most grindcore.

The question is if its a distinct genre or not and I would not say so really but at the same time its a very specific hybrid form of extreme metal that is very recognizable. I would personally add it to MA because I think it would make our lives easier. I consider it kind of similar to NWOBHM as well, NWOBHM isn't a genre really but at the same time there are definitely some unifying factors sound wise that make it useful even today. War metal is more valid in my opinion when just looking at it from a pure musical perspective.

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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 2325
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 3:41 am 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
Zerberus wrote:
My problem with the distinction between war metal and black/death metal is that there are many bands that are associated with the term that don't really sound alike.
Archgoat and Impiety, as examples, both sound like a mix of black and death metal, but not all that much like Blasphemy or Revenge. And yet they are often associated with the war metal term.


Well that is kinda like any other metal genre. I mean how similar are Emperor and Von?

War metal is in my opinion the direct continuation of 80s extreme metal. So basically before extreme metal really crystallised into specific subgenres. There are a couple variations on this sound like some bands lean more towards death metal like Impiety, some bands lean more towards thrash(most bands from South America and Bestial Warlust from Australia), some bands lean more towards black metal(Archgoat) and lastly the Canadian style has the most grindcore.

The question is if its a distinct genre or not and I would not say so really but at the same time its a very specific hybrid form of extreme metal that is very recognizable. I would personally add it to MA because I think it would make our lives easier. I consider it kind of similar to NWOBHM as well, NWOBHM isn't a genre really but at the same time there are definitely some unifying factors sound wise that make it useful even today. War metal is more valid in my opinion when just looking at it from a pure musical perspective.


I don't necessarily disagree, although in many cases you add prefixes like "symphonic" or "melodic" to indicate that difference.

From my point of view I would probably like less genres on MA, but then add a new "Style" field that is basically free-text or a menu with lots of options. So the main genres would be something like:
Death Metal
Black Metal
Heavy Metal
Power Metal
Thrash Metal
Folk Metal
Groove Metal
Gothic Metal
Doom Metal
Stoner Metal
Industrial Metal
Symphonic Metal
Speed Metal
Progressive Metal
Metalcore
Deathcore
Grindcore
Experimental

Then the Style could be examples like:
Depressive Black Metal
Raw Black Metal
War Metal
Atmospheric Black Metal
etc etc etc
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Hexenmacht46290
Has a GED in Gamercide

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 11:23 am 
 

pyratebastard wrote:
What are the musical characteristics that set war metal apart? I know that war is a very common lyrical theme in most metal subgenres. Do you have any examples of bands that fit the 'war metal' genre?


Behemoth is playing a show near me, soon. They will be playing it with Arch Enemy, at a theater, with a capacity of over 2000 people. They are black/death metal. War/goat metal bands are also black/death metal. However, they would never play with a melodeath band, or play for 2000 people(unless it’s a big festival appearance). This is a good guide, as to what makes their style so different:
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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 11:43 am 
 

I guess the same reason pirate metal isn't allowed either. Honestly, death/black should be enough to distinguish these bands. RYM uses the war metal tag and it's a complete shitshow, all death/black metal bands are tagged as war metal even if they aren't.

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OlioTheSmall
Handsome (marsupial) Beast

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:08 pm
Posts: 2731
Location: Squatter's Crog, Australia
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2022 12:30 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
I mean we use bloody "pagan metal" which is far less well defined, but eh, is what it is.

Holy shit, you're not wrong.

I hereby petition to have every 'pagan metal' band moved to their appropriate genre. Whiteness does not take riff form.
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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2022 1:51 am 
 

I'm a really huge war metal fan, but actually, comparing war metal to viking/pagan metal doesn't seem right to me.

I honestly didn't think Viking/Pagan metal was a real genre till I listened to Einherjer's album "Bloc" and when viking/pagan metal is like that it's honestly a 100% distinct style from death, black or any other extreme genre. Honestly, it's hard to even say whether or not there's black or death in certain parts because it's so unique.

On the other hand, most of my favorite war metal bands mix black, death, and grind: Archgoat, Revenge, Conqueror, Proclammation, Anima Damnata, Axis of Advance, Blasphemy, Sadistik Exekution, Bestial Mockery, Weregoat, Tetragrammacide, Teitanblood, etc. These bands all have a very distinct style of black/death that is heavily focussed on certain types of fast drum patterns and other types of guitar work that is often a bit grindier than typical black/death.

So honestly, while war metal is distinct from black/death or blackened death metal, it's still a sub-sub-genre of them, whereas I honestly feel now that Pagan/Viking metal when done in a very certain specific way isn't even a sub-genre at all, it's entirely its own thing.

So yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say we should or shouldn't have a war metal section, but the question is over the fact that it's a smaller sub-genre as compared to black/death.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5570
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 5:50 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
I guess the same reason pirate metal isn't allowed either. Honestly, death/black should be enough to distinguish these bands. RYM uses the war metal tag and it's a complete shitshow, all death/black metal bands are tagged as war metal even if they aren't.


to be expected from rymnerds tbh

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PaganiusI
Zee Bombelecher

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm
Posts: 3276
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2022 6:13 am 
 

Don't see how this topic if going to bring anything new to the table...

viewtopic.php?p=3029072#p3029072
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