Isn't Holocaust (GBR) NWOBHM? They're only listed as heavy metal early and progressive metal later.

Link: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=760

Even Illusion's Play is funeral doom,



Derigin, he and many of us presented solid evidence as to why Shape of Despair is funeral doom and it has all been stubbornly ignored or at least looked over or something! That's the way I see it. Stubbornity is keeping them "atmospheric doom/death", compromise is "funeral doom, atmospheric doom" and completely correct is just "funeral doom" ...



It would not be a catastrophe to list them as "Funeral doom, Atmospheric doom" or something. In fact, it would be correct! They are doom, they are funeral doom, they are atmospheric. Even better, it would settle this debate once and for all.



So, just because "Shades of..." is in a "goofy time signature" it is suddenly no longer "funeral doom" (or "dodges the discussion")? Can you clarify?



Funeral doom evolved from doom/death as Goatfangs says:



Well fucking said!



caspians views on Shape of Despair are radical, that they are just slow and not doom metal. Even here, the admittance that "Funeral Doom" would work for them is made.

He mentions Killswitch Engage. They are metalcore. They are influenced by melodic death metal and use melodic death metal riffs, but in a metalcore style. Shape of Despair may use death metal riffs, although very very slow death metal riffs, but they do so in a funeral doom style. in this way they are not doom/death because not only does doom/death use death metal riffs, they also use them in a death metal style along with a doom metal style.

I have already seen forum posts by others who are confused about the mistaken label on Shape of Despair's page. Can we PLEASE just settle this debate once and for all? Put their tag as "Funeral Doom/ Atmospheric Doom/Death"

And if the mods do not want to compromise on this, WHY not? And give a real reason other than "because we felt like it"

Otherwise every once in a while (could be weekly, monthly, bimonthly, or have long gaps in between or short bursts or whatever) someone is going to ask about it (not going to mob onto the MA or anything though, just ask about it) and bring it up again. The compromise I am suggesting will prevent that and further silly squabble over Shape of Despair's genre.



Besides, all of these sites cannot possibly be mistaken! SoD refers to themselves as funeral doom and associate themselves with the genre. Constant reviews and neutral point of view assessments (doom-metal and wikipedia) refer to them as funeral doom.

I think this is a mouthful, and I think "mallcore" in of itself sort of encompasses the electronic influence that they had later in their career.

I didn't consider it relevant enough. It's not a genre change, just a one-off thing, like Opeth's mellow album, or Pat Metheny's distorted/noisy album.

I gave it another listen today and I was surprised, my memory seems to have been off. It seems even more funeral doom like then Shades Of, quite comparable to modern Skepticism, the way the music flowed, its momentum. Like a river almost, the course, pace, and destination are set. The way its constantly expanding, with lots of subtlety. Shit, I am not a reviewer...

Here:

Shape Of Despair - Sleep Mirrored
Skepticism - March October
Mournful Congregation - White Cold Wrath Burnt Frozen Blood & Part 2



I don't understand what the time signature has to do with it either? Could the staff clarify? Thanks.



I actually don't disagree with that section of his post. I don't hear the death metal elements in Shape Of Despair, though you could say they have the influences.

Here, some death/doom:

Evoken - Quietus
Ahab - Old Thunder
Winter - Into Darkness

The flow is quite different, a lot more uncertain, more emphasis on rhythm. Almost like a bulldozer or a dark mass in the middle of the night slowly expanding and consuming without regard. Less trance-like then funeral doom. The methods to attain ambiance usually differ as well, as Goatfangs mentioned earlier. Doom/death has more reliance on spacing and acoustics, and funeral doom a lot more on the dirge/trance/ritualistic atmosphere.

Suggestions on whether the genre should be updated... the information have been taken from the band's MySpace site.
http://www.myspace.com/oddsbologna
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=43461

Ok so, "Thrash Metal (early), Industrial/Thrash Metal (mid), Mallcore (later), should be ok, the important is to remove that "Brutal Thrash Metal" that really sounds odd (same for the 5 bands listed as "Brutal Thrash" here on MA)

It shouldn't. The new wave period didn't release anything; everything else is covered by the current genre tag.

Hellbound was deleted, all reviews called it crust punk. The others were fixed.

Technical thrash?
http://www.myspace.com/watchmydying
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=34243

Shadowdances really doesn't sound to me like "Doom/Atmospheric Death Metal" at all. As their MySpace tracks indicate, their roots are primarily in gothic and alternative rock as well as maybe a little electronic and industrial stuff.

I was considering submitting them to the "Cleansing the Archives" thread, but there seem to be a few samples from their latest album, Misery Loves Company, that are somewhat metal. That being said, though, it does seem like a borderline case to me, although it does help that all of the members have histories in earlier death metal projects.

Shape of Despair changed to "Atmospheric/Funeral Doom".

Divina Enema is listed in the archives as 'Avant-garde'. Not having heard them before this left me unsure whether they where metal or not, so after some looking around I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vqsMUGxSQ4

And yes, the tag seems correct, just needs metal added to the description, so, 'Avant-garde Metal'.

Thank you.

I'd like to add that, to these ears, Shape of Despair is to funeral doom what Dimmu Borgir is to black metal. All the superficial aspects are there, but none of the essence.

Now everyone else, stop clugging this thread with your moanings.

And what about Funeral (Nor)? http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3438

I have pointed at that thing in one of my earlier posts... they are listed as "Melodic Doom/Death (later), but they are not Death/Doom in their two most recent albums, here's a song from their album "From These Wounds": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt93z352J6Y (the other songs from this album are in the same vein) and this a song from their last album "As the Light Does The Shadow": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g21WgwhSdZQ . As you can hear, no growls, only clean vocals are used, so the genre name should be changed in something like "Gothic/Doom Metal (later)" or "Melodic Doom Metal (later)".

Holy crap, that's what I'd call excessive. I was tempted to change the whole description to simply "Doom Metal".

Iron Thrones

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540273759

Progressive Atmospheric Sludge

listen to the first 2 tracks on the myspace, strongly resemble sludge and many elements
http://www.myspace.com/ironthrones

Yes, this would be right too.

What you changed it to now is perfect! They faded away from funeral doom on later albums, but retained some qualities, each album moving further away from that. They always had gothic elements, and From These Wounds is the classic Funeral sound in a faster Gothic/Doom context.

Also Shape of Despair was changed to Atmospheric/Funeral Doom... works for me!

Please, no.

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=122109
http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=124233
http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=86784
http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=91115

Maybe is just nitpicking but "Funeral Black Metal?" I'd say "Funeral Doom/Black metal" instead.

+1

"Funeral" as a tag is for the sub-genre of doom metal. By itself it is unrelated to black metal. "Funeral black metal" is essentially the same as "Funeral Doom/Black metal" or "Black/Funeral Doom Metal" / "Blackened Funeral Doom" (and these genres are essentially different ordering of the fusion genres, for which there seems to be no set standard for this order as at times one genre may dominate over the other, or both might harmonize equally - except with X/Thrash genres)

But yeah, it is a nitpick, rather than a useful change, as "Funeral Black Metal" would be included in the results if one were to just search "Funeral" or "Funeral Black" as the "Funeral Doom/Black Metal" bands.

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540304436

Listening to them on Myspace, they should probably be listed as either "Brutal Death Metal/Grindcore" or just simply "Death Metal/Grindcore".

http://www.myspace.com/kryptikembrace

I find it annoying that Down got changed to simple 'Southern metal'. I think that's way too generic a catagorization for them. I would put Southern/Doom/Sludge.

No, it's pretty apt. Don't know where the doom or sludge is in their sound.

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540277489
Technical Brutal Death Metal with Deathcore elements

"Deathcore" should suffice.

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=40038
"Epic pagan metal"
Should be "black metal" (samples: http://www.myspace.com/walquiriamex )

First time using this thread, so if I did something wrong please let me know.

My suggestion involves Recondite (USA):
http://static.metal-archives.com/band.p ... a4ad313ca7

They're listed as Progressive Black Metal, but I hear very little "black" in their sound, more of an Opeth-esque type of metal. Listen for yourself:
http://www.myspace.com/reconditemusic

Would Progressive/Experimental Death Metal be a better tag?

The Last Shot of War" "Brutal Death Metal/Grindcore"

Not grindcore at all. Brutal Deathcore would be more fitting.

http://www.myspace.com/thelastshotofwar

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=9099
The current genre is non-descriptive and misleading in my opinion.

http://www.myspace.com/miseryincband

Their older songs sound like typical finnish gothic metal in the vein of Sentenced, Poisonblack, To Die For ... etc. Their newer more aggressive stuff is.... metalcore? Anyway their current genre really doesn't describe what they play.

Mael Mórdha
http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3256

I see their genre was (very) recently changed from celtic folk/doom to death/doom, but I really disagree with this - they are definitely not "celtic folk" as previously described, but neither are they death metal or death/doom. Rather, they are a blackened traditional doom band. I'm reminded a lot of Primordial listening to them, if Primordial dropped the folk and went doom metal.

http://www.myspace.com/maelmorda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyDRGfwmDUs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dll8vRrOdt0

I really don't hear the "blackened" in Mael Mordha. I think the original tag was appropriate and I agree that the "death/doom" tag is way off base.

No? But they tend to use a lot of tremolo picking when they hit the mid and fast paced sections of songs, like at 3:50 in 'Winds of One Thousand Winters', at 2:20 in 'Gealtacht Mael Mordha', at the chorus of 'Godless Commune of Sodom' at 1:55, at 3:10 in 'Cluain Tarbh' etc. It's not full-on BM, just a blackened edge to the music that's frankly fucking fantastic.

The biggest problem is that they aren't doom, even if they have slow parts.

As for: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540304956

I don't know why the genre from what I entered them as got changed...they are obvious neo-Cradle of Filth influenced. It's obviou sby the tracks that are goth-keyboard only.

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=48586

Acoustic Black Metal/Ambient

Does such a description make sense?

If I had any I'd be willing to bet money that this band can be taken straight to the "Cleansing the Archives" thread.

Submitting them to the 'cleansing' thread would be a very bad idea since their early material fully validate their place in the archives. Whatever they have currently on their myspace does not reflect their early releases.

True, and there are some death growls sprinkled here and there, but for the sake of brevity I think celtic folk/doom metal would the best description. People expecting to hear either death or black metal would probably be disappointed.

Cyber Baphomet is a side project listed as "Electronic Black Metal", though it isn't actually metal at all, rather it is pure electronic music. "Ambient/Industrial" would be sufficient to cover their sound.

Here is an upload with one song from each of their albums, which are fairly representative of the musical makeup of their respective albums.

See, I don't hear much celtic folk in their sound. Certainly there's a song or two which throws in a flute or a keyboard/piano section, but it's not very indicative of "celtic folk" per se. I'm not really hearing a lot of folk melodies or folk instrumentation on any of their material I currently can listen to (their first two full lengths and the 'Paths of Insanity' EP)

Also, vocal style =/= genre (though it can help define it, certainly) but on their 'Path to Insanity' EP, there is a second, pure black metal style vocalist. This EP features an earlier version of 'Godless Commune of Sodom' which is QUITE different than the later version (and the chorus riff, played slower, is more like melodic black metal played at a doom pace) - and the black metal screamer shows up on other tracks, too.

Blackened Doom Metal just seems right for this band, overall.