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Muhammadabbadabba
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Posts: 1178
Location: R'lyeh
PostPosted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:47 am 
 

Selective Aggression was originally submitted on the basis of the demo featuring much more metallic music. Initially, it was rejected on account of being "too short" as a digital release despite featuring five different songs and quite professional studio quality. That demo was eventually issued on tape and sold at live shows. Does this count as a physical release?

Only after the release of Spiritual Warfare was Selective Aggression accepted. The second release is much more Hardcore. In fact, I believe it merits a change to the genre field to reflect the transition.

Still, I believe the band to be acceptably Metal on account of the first release, especially now that it has a physical format.

Suggested change: Thrash Metal/Hardcore/Metalcore

Demotape:
https://twitter.com/SXA716/status/948611432668688385
https://twitter.com/SXA716/status/949792789021249537

Demo (Thrash Metal/Crossover):
https://selectiveaggression.bandcamp.com/album/demo

Spiritual Warfare (Hardcore/Metalcore):
https://selectiveaggression.bandcamp.co ... al-warfare
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Skullycat
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:49 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Uzbekistan
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:07 pm 
 

Brutal Death Metal
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Mortal_Decay/217

Discography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlUNPwBRwhU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhRdVWGoF9I&t=835s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTvW9Mt7VFU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLBTs1Nkh08

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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:05 pm 
 

Why doesn't Burzum have dungeon synth in its genre? There are 7 bands on MA that are labelled as dungeon synth, so I assume it's now allowed.
So the correct genre for Burzum is "Black metal, Ambient/Dungeon synth".

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S9NE
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:58 am
Posts: 150
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:44 am 
 

Ever since I submitted Barbarus (USA), I felt that calling it pagan/doom metal didn't sound right. I made a report for this, but it got closed without any comment. I still can't put my finger on exactly what would be more accurate, but this is certainly not doom metal (imo). I just wrote that hoping someone would come up with something better.

So anyway, here are the albums on Bandcamp:
Barbarus I (+ instrumental version)
Into the Distant Light

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Skullycat
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:49 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Uzbekistan
PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:24 pm 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Holocausto/2356
Add ''technical thrash metal'' to the Holocausto genre, so that it is:
Black/Thrash Metal (early/later), Crossover/Thrash Metal, Technical Thrash Metal (mid), Experimental Industrial (1993)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsvOZJC8YSQ

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joecubbie
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:03 pm
Posts: 99
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:39 am 
 

This might be a controversial post, but I'm just curious...

Why is Rush's genre "Hard Rock/Heavy Metal (early), Progressive Rock (later)"? I only ask because by having it as such, it seems to me it's referring to their debut as being the former (which I agree with) and the remainder of their career being progressive rock since they went prog on Fly by Night. That said, I never considered Rush's output from Fly by Night to Hemispheres to be progressive rock as the riffs are too heavy. Personally, I consider these albums the beginnings of progressive metal. From then on, it seems they strode the line, with future albums leaning towards progressive rock and a few metal songs here and there. That is until Clockwork Angels which returns to the progressive metal sound, but I digress. Could Rush's genre be changed to "Progressive Metal/Rock"? Here are a handful of songs that could warrant this genre change. If not, I understand. Thank you...

"Anthem": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VcswhBy9tk
"By-Tor and the Snow Dog": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UU62UcP_BA
"Bastille Day": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azc_FNZXaRw
"The Necromancer": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lt12vKmLhXU
"2112": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZm1_jtY1SQ
"A Passage to Bangkok": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaC041pQl4I
"Something for Nothing": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW7NL9ZQ6c8
"Cygnus X-1": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MlYgt-QdMI
"Cygnus X-1 Book II - Hemispheres": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uXCfDRddC0
"Circumstances": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZOgc8CgWUU
"Natural Science": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7W0Nm8iHwk
"Clockwork Angels": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYFXbGQcfoE

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Bonziepsycho
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:14 pm
Posts: 96
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:08 pm 
 

Diplomate wrote:
Why doesn't Burzum have dungeon synth in its genre? There are 7 bands on MA that are labelled as dungeon synth, so I assume it's now allowed.
So the correct genre for Burzum is "Black metal, Ambient/Dungeon synth".


I’d like to second this; Dauði Baldrs and Hliðskjálf quintessential Dungeon Synth albums.
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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 689
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:19 pm 
 

putrevomitory wrote:
Storm of the Light's Bane wrote:
They're actually on bandcamp, haha. Anyway, I'd say heavy/power metal is actually pretty accurate.

Mybad, I should have linked the band, it's the one from Brazil. Similarly named though.

Ah, my bad. I'll take a look at them soon.

EDIT: Changed.
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I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.

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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:19 pm 
 

Bonziepsycho wrote:
I’d like to second this; Dauði Baldrs and Hliðskjálf quintessential Dungeon Synth albums.

I am sure there are way more artists on MA that should be labelled as dungeon synth. I would add that genre to Summoning as well, but for now Burzum is the main issue. I don't think anybody is going to argue with this, I'm surprised it's not done already.

Would also like to bump Draconian (link to issue), I'm sure their demos were just forgotten.

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ᴎostalgiʞK
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 171
Location: Argentina, Brazil
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:50 pm 
 

Bonziepsycho wrote:
Diplomate wrote:
Why doesn't Burzum have dungeon synth in its genre? There are 7 bands on MA that are labelled as dungeon synth, so I assume it's now allowed.
So the correct genre for Burzum is "Black metal, Ambient/Dungeon synth".


I’d like to second this; Dauði Baldrs and Hliðskjálf quintessential Dungeon Synth albums.


Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something, but isn't "ambient" a genre which contains all kind of synths, guitars, drums, sounds made by a machine, [or bongos (?] or anything that could create from naive, to just relaxing atmospheric sound? I think that dungeon synth is not necessary in any case of any band on MA, because ambient genre forms part of everything (In my opinion!)

If I'm wrong I think adding dungeon synth would be feasible, because it's correct anyways... I third that.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:21 pm 
 

ᴎostalgiʞK wrote:
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something, but isn't "ambient" a genre which contains all kind of synths, guitars, drums, sounds made by a machine, [or bongos (?] or anything that could create from naive, to just relaxing atmospheric sound? I think that dungeon synth is not necessary in any case of any band on MA, because ambient genre forms part of everything (In my opinion!)

If I'm wrong I think adding dungeon synth would be feasible, because it's correct anyways... I third that.

Here's what ambient sounds like.
Here's dungeon synth.
I think nobody is going to argue about Burzum being closer to the second example than the first one. Some stuff of his still sounds ambient, so double tag would be OK, I guess.

Actually, a lot of bands on MA are wrongly labelled as dark ambient. This mostly concerns neoclassical darkwave projects of black metal musicians, so I don't report them, since I doubt they are going to be evaluated.

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Zodijackyl
Definitely Proportionate

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7414
Location: Longmont Potion Castle
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:02 am 
 

Similar to how we don't go back and label various classic 90s bands as "depressive black metal" or "slam" because a later movement has "claimed" a band as part of that label, just because we accept a current genre tag on modern bands who can be accurately as such means we need to go back and retroactively change perfectly valid genre tags on bands that are accurately categorized as such.

Genre labels such as ambient are extremely broad, and we are not particularly interested in your nitpicking about what is and isn't ambient or goth or whatever. The majority of ambient, dark ambient, and darkwave genre tags on this site are functionally understandable and do not require re-evaluation.

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Bonziepsycho
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:14 pm
Posts: 96
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:07 am 
 

If the “history” of when the movement started is a problem, then this shouldn’t be an issue at all; the style was created and recognized in the early 90s by bands like Mortiis and Pazuzu (both of which I just realized are on here). Burzum popularized it with his two albums. However, I don’t agree with adding dungeon synth to a band like Summoning at all. The style is a secondary genre throughout, and in every instance of a band like this, simply “ambient” should suffice. The reason I think Burzum, Mortiis, and Pazuzu are different is because they literally have entire albums to showcase the style, while being the forefathers of the movement in the 90s. The whole point of the movement was to crate a medieval/fantasy, Tolkien worship breed of music, and all three did exactly that.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:05 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Similar to how we don't go back and label various classic 90s bands as "depressive black metal" or "slam" because a later movement has "claimed" a band as part of that label, just because we accept a current genre tag on modern bands who can be accurately as such means we need to go back and retroactively change perfectly valid genre tags on bands that are accurately categorized as such.

By this logic Black Sabbath shouldn't be doom metal and Venom/Bathory/Celtic Frost shouldn't be black metal.

Quote:
Genre labels such as ambient are extremely broad, and we are not particularly interested in your nitpicking about what is and isn't ambient or goth or whatever. The majority of ambient, dark ambient, and darkwave genre tags on this site are functionally understandable and do not require re-evaluation.

This is a better explanation, since non-metal bands simply aren't a priority to the site. But labelling all those non-ambient bands as ambient is the equivalent of labelling all thrash, black and death metal bands as screamo.

I will respect your decision, even though I don't agree with it.

Bonziepsycho wrote:
However, I don’t agree with adding dungeon synth to a band like Summoning at all. The style is a secondary genre throughout, and in every instance of a band like this, simply “ambient” should suffice.

Summoning is not ambient at all, they are a 100% example of dungeon synth. They have 2 dungeon synth EPs and lots of dungeon synth songs on their albums, so I think labelling them as dungeon synhth would be correct. But the moderators have another vision, so I won't argue with them.

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PaganiusI
Zee Bombelecher

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm
Posts: 966
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:23 pm 
 

You realize that Dungeon Synth is a Sub-genre of ambient, right?
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:48 pm 
 

PaganiusI wrote:
You realize that Dungeon Synth is a Sub-genre of ambient, right?

In some sources dungeon synth is described as a subgenre or being influenced by dark ambient, but I don't agree with that at all. Ambient sounds like, well, ambient. It doesn't sound like normal music, it sounds like nature/environment. Basically it's industrial background noise. Dungeon synth is completely different, it's much closer to traditional music. It's not background noise, more like simplistic faux-medieval music.
Here's some dark ambient music, does this or this really sound like that?
Some Burzum songs sound like dark ambient or ambient to me, that's why I proposed Ambient/Dungeon synth tag. But dungeon synth is completely different from ambient.

Another incorrectly tagged non-metal genre is neoclassical darkwave. It's labelled as "Neoclassical/Darkwave" (most ridiculous one, it would be the same as labelling someone as Neoclassical/Metal), "Neoclassical/Dark Ambient", "Dark Ambient/Darkwave" and so on. The strangest one is Dark Sanctuary, who are labelled as "Darkwave/Gothic Neoclassical", which doesn't make sense at all. It would be way easier to just label all these artists as Neoclassical Darkwave, and maybe only a few bands as Dark Ambient. Rateyourmusic does a good job at labelling those bands, in my opinion.

I actually regret that I brought these issues up, they are clearly less important than the incorrectly labelled metal artists. I just thought I would give a shot at Burzum since he's clearly not just ambient, but whatever. I respect your decision if you think it's not that important.

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Muhammadabbadabba
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Posts: 1178
Location: R'lyeh
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:51 pm 
 

Diplomate beat me to it, but for what it's worth, Rate Your Music treats Dungeon Synth as only a subgenre of Electronic Music and not Ambient despite the two having faint relations. I don't profess to be an expert on this subject, so perhaps a more informed opinion on this is needed.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:00 pm 
 

Muhammadabbadabba wrote:
Diplomate beat me to it, but for what it's worth, Rate Your Music treats Dungeon Synth as only a subgenre of Electronic Music and not Ambient despite the two having faint relations. I don't profess to be an expert on this subject, so perhaps a more informed opinion on this is needed.

I also am not an authority on this subject, but from my point of view dungeon synth is a completely independent genre that represents minimalistic medieval/fantasy style music. It may have influences from neoclassical darkwave and dark ambient, but overall it's a completely different thing. I think the confusion with dark ambient comes from the fact that it was referred to as dark ambient in the 90s, but it's merely that, a confusion. In most cases I can easily tell these three genres apart, and I believe even a person who has never heard these genres will be able to see the differences between the songs that I linked in my previous post.

Calling dungeon synth as a subgenre of dark ambient is like calling Slipknot death metal. They may have those influences, but do they fall within this genre? I don't think so.

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Bonziepsycho
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:14 pm
Posts: 96
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:30 pm 
 

Again, I second this. Dungeon synth may combine elements nicely with other experimental genres, like ambient/noise/drone, but as a style is more similar to something like progressive electronic or horror synth, which I would say is more electronic. Yes, on the distant side, like how post-punk and pop punk are still sub genres under the same umbrella as hardcore and Deathcore, but like it’s been said, ambient has little song structure and is essentially musical atmosphere. The opposite can be said about dungeon synth which is literally modern medieval music; the songs literally use ancient modes like Dorian instead of modern scales.

An example would be this Burzum song that’s in the Dorian mode:
https://youtu.be/YPGeEE05N5A
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ᴎostalgiʞK
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 171
Location: Argentina, Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:45 pm 
 

Diplomate wrote:
Calling dungeon synth as a subgenre of dark ambient is like calling Slipknot death metal. They may have those influences, but do they fall within this genre? I don't think so.


I'm not an expert by any means talking about ambient genre, everything was good n' enjoyable to read until you putted that Slipknot has death metal influences as an example of sub-genres, this makes the conversation confusing to comprehend.

Diplomate wrote:
Zodijackyl wrote:
Similar to how we don't go back and label various classic 90s bands as "depressive black metal" or "slam" because a later movement has "claimed" a band as part of that label, just because we accept a current genre tag on modern bands who can be accurately as such means we need to go back and retroactively change perfectly valid genre tags on bands that are accurately categorized as such.

By this logic Black Sabbath shouldn't be doom metal and Venom/Bathory/Celtic Frost shouldn't be black metal.


Well, Diplomate has a point here talking about Sabbath's example, now for the early days of black metal > Venom, Bathory, even in Hellhammer you'll see a huge influence coming from the punk, early black metal had lot of this, but definitely they're and were black metal.

The debate is feasible... I like it.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:08 pm 
 

ᴎostalgiʞK wrote:
Diplomate wrote:
Calling dungeon synth as a subgenre of dark ambient is like calling Slipknot death metal. They may have those influences, but do they fall within this genre? I don't think so.


I'm not an expert by any means talking about ambient genre, everything was good n' enjoyable to read until you putted that Slipknot has death metal influences as an example of sub-genres, this makes the conversation confusing to comprehend.

Diplomate wrote:
Zodijackyl wrote:
Similar to how we don't go back and label various classic 90s bands as "depressive black metal" or "slam" because a later movement has "claimed" a band as part of that label, just because we accept a current genre tag on modern bands who can be accurately as such means we need to go back and retroactively change perfectly valid genre tags on bands that are accurately categorized as such.

By this logic Black Sabbath shouldn't be doom metal and Venom/Bathory/Celtic Frost shouldn't be black metal.


Well, Diplomate has a point here talking about Sabbath's example, now for the early days of black metal > Venom, Bathory, even in Hellhammer you'll see a huge influence coming from the punk, early black metal had lot of this, but definitely they're and were black metal.

The debate is feasible... I like it.

I didn't formulate my thoughts correctly, I mean when you call dungeon synth artists as dark ambient, fans of dark ambient react the same way as if you called Slipknot death metal. Slipknot may sound like death metal to the general audience, but we all know how laughable that is. I don't really see how a person with some hearing could confuse dungeon synth with dark ambient, apart from the situations when dungeon synth artists directly incorporate dark ambient sounds.

As for Venom/Bathory/Celtic Frost, I would say they are way closer to thrash metal than dungeon synth is to dark ambient. I also brought up this analogy because, as far as I know, they weren't called black metal in the 80's, they were thought to be thrash or death metal. I am not sure about that since I weren't alive during these years, but in some interviews Mayhem's music is referred to as brutal death metal, which doesn't make any sense now. Yet nowadays nobody argues about Bathory or Celtic Frost being black metal.

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AriesWarlock
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:15 am
Posts: 10
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 1:09 am 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Da ... osis/61976

Dark Psychosis is listed as black metal but their music is more black/thrash. Their bio on their facebook also states it:

Quote:
About
Blackout Thrash Metal


Quote:
...Dark Psychosis will continue to push the limits of the Black/Thrash Metal genre.


https://www.facebook.com/pg/darkpsychos ... e_internal




Diplomate wrote:
Diplomate wrote:
...

I see After Forever were recently changed from Symphonic gothic/power metal to just Symphonic/power metal. If that's the case, then those bands I listed definitely need to be stripped of the gothic tag as well, since in After Forever's case I could at least hear a few gothic rock style clean guitars on their debut album, but in Draconian, Sins and probably MDB I can't hear even that apart from a few cases. I would say Tristania's Widow's Weeds is not much more gothic than AF's Prison of Desire, so I still believe they need a death/doom tag addition, though their other albums are definitely gothic.



What makes After Forever power metal? I would suggest adding a "death metal/classical (early)" because of their first 2 albums. On http://www.metal-observer.com/ before the site crashed and lost all of their info, they had an interview with AF (after a crappy review of their first album) in which they asked them to describe their style, and I remember they said they play death metal with classical music parts. This part of the interview forever stuck with me, and it's an important fact to highlight.

Anyway, I called Metal Observer's review of their first album Prison of Desire crappy because the reviewer gave it a poor score, hammering again and again that AF wasn't gothic enough like Tristania... when they weren't trying to do that; their music was heavier, their riffs more death metal than gothic metal. Give Prison of Desire a listen, and you will notice how different it is from Tristania or Nightwish.

Sadly, that interview is lost but I did find another interview where they describe their early work as "death metal/classical". Matter of fact, there are quite a few articles on their death metal/classical era.


Quote:
Sander told us aobut the development of the band's sound, "The arrival of the keyboards changed our style, and we began to compose death metal with a classical and melodical touch.


http://www.kindamuzik.net/interview/aft ... ever/1636/


I never thought I would touch on this old subject but I am glad I did. Those were good times :D

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PaganiusI
Zee Bombelecher

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm
Posts: 966
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:53 am 
 

Would you mind including samples when posting here? We won't take your word on genres and we won't take a bands word on their genre.
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AriesWarlock
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:15 am
Posts: 10
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:55 am 
 

Of Dark Psychosis black/thrashiness? Sure

Youtube: show

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ThStealthP
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Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:16 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Dominican Republic
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:30 am 
 

Melodic Black/Death Metal or Melodic Black Metal:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Necrophobic/1350

Discography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsDiRsnN7xc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I83DpVvRui0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNtxaTj2rYY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K40PvW3ZWDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItBPdgimZvI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv-yKfnhFis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BxffnaOXcQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvJfw_CXUxw

Brutal Deathcore:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Si ... 3540444626

Discography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIARaW5TAiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g4Zxxd-PY4

Symphonic Gothic/Doom/Death Metal:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Th ... eloved/375

Discography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJIhmCjEl4s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1z0qnQT6Y
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sy ... 3540331942

Gothic/Doom/Death Metal:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sy ... 3540331942

Discography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BizNne267Q

Technical Deathcore:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/De ... 3540342373

Discography:
https://depthsofhatred.bandcamp.com/

Technical Deathcore:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Al ... 3540281390

Discography:
https://alicethroughthewindshieldglass.bandcamp.com/

Technical Deathcore:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/An ... 3540454750

Debut EP:
https://music.apple.com/us/album/blood- ... /980759266

Technical Deathcore (early), Deathcore (later):
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Th ... 3540316559

Discography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19X0fqnBsHw
https://skullandbonesrecords.bandcamp.c ... nite-death
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bep9UYvGMyc
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ag_NpXabtq
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9EYD8dkxao
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... FMT7AE44rD

Technical Death Metal or Technical Death/Black Metal:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sarpanitum/28155

Discography:
https://sarpanitum.bandcamp.com/

Cattle Decapitation:
Grindcore/Goregrind (early), Progressive Death Metal/Grindcore

Discography:
https://cattledecapitation.bandcamp.com

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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 204
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:13 pm 
 

AriesWarlock wrote:
What makes After Forever power metal? I would suggest adding a "death metal/classical (early)" because of their first 2 albums. On http://www.metal-observer.com/ before the site crashed and lost all of their info, they had an interview with AF (after a crappy review of their first album) in which they asked them to describe their style, and I remember they said they play death metal with classical music parts. This part of the interview forever stuck with me, and it's an important fact to highlight.

Well, this album indeed sounds like death/doom metal, but if you think After Forever deserves to have death/doom as their early genre, then Tristania should be labelled as gothic/doom as well, since both of these bands have these aspects only on their first albums. Mods disagreed about labelling Tristania as anything rather than gothic metal, so here you go.


Mods, sorry for bumping this again, but this issue is really small and I believe it won't take much time at all. Draconian's first two demos are definitely black/doom metal, is that enough to justify the genre change?

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Skullycat
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Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:49 pm
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Location: Uzbekistan
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:30 pm 
 

Black/Thrash Metal (early), Black Metal (later)
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sk ... itch/16879

Discography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpKRIEimNgI
https://open.spotify.com/album/6TuqCsJxrNjPIh2fhqdVBh
https://open.spotify.com/album/4xJ2vrgHTbBnIKmS4TRjHd
https://open.spotify.com/album/3JwABKYWqvnDs5CLzYXx0P
https://open.spotify.com/album/2JOIi9CHxbQPQPHJNXDQBi
https://open.spotify.com/album/03T9bKKlfydmgyarZCKlDo

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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 689
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:30 pm 
 

Skullycat wrote:

No, use the search function (and ideally stop making genre requests, you've only been somewhat correct once out of 9 times).
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I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.

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Bonziepsycho
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:14 pm
Posts: 96
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:42 pm 
 

Bonziepsycho wrote:
Bonziepsycho wrote:
Bonziepsycho wrote:
Knuckle Dragger's genre is fine, except I think Hardcore should be added to the tag; their three releases prior to the new ep were very hardcore, and less so death metal. So "Powerviolence/Grindcore/Hardcore/Death Metal."
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Kn ... 3540450521
https://knuckledraggertn.bandcamp.com/ (4-Way Split, Pinion / Knuckle Dragger, self titled)

Agoraphobic Nosebleed's genre is fine except Cybergrind needs to be added to the Grindcore tag (Cybergrind/Grindcore, Sludge/Doom Metal). They play more straightforward grind on Honky Reduction and Agorapocalypse, but are far more on the electronic cyber side of grind on Frozen Corpse Stuffed With Dope and--especially--Altered States of America.
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ag ... 3540453905
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2eIf6fxs-I
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3qBpKgHjJ4
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m_IYjBhlbU
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J2UrXH5tds

Full of Hell's genre makes sense, somewhat, but they definitely play powerviolence and noise on their newest album. Might it just be better to condense the genre to "Powerviolence/Grindcore/Death Metal, Noise" (since the noise is played separate from the main genre, such as single tracks or segments of songs, or like the full EPs) and write in the notes that they shifted to a more deathgrind sound on their last two albums?
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Fu ... 3540438869
* https://fullofhell.bandcamp.com/album/weeping-choir (noise and powerviolence)
* https://fullofhell.bandcamp.com/album/t ... ng-ecstasy (no noise, but powerviolence)
* https://fullofhell.bandcamp.com/album/a ... eavy-light (I know this was a one off collaboration, but it is definitely "noise" and "powerviolence" to describe the later genre)
* https://neurotrecordings.bandcamp.com/a ... ike-i-ache (Another one off collaboration that fits the noise and powerviolence in the later style)

I discovered Gutalax needs a slight change to their genre: Goregrind/Grind 'n' Roll.
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Gutalax/3540310608
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PO6HZKU-IM
* https://gutalax2.bandcamp.com/

I've also seen that Slam has been added as a genre, and here are two band's I've added that fit this tag:
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ma ... 3540408586
* https://mancubus1.bandcamp.com/album/yo ... el-ep-2015


* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Re ... 3540407912
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgcVYunQed8 (sorry, I could only find a live video)
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg0bdTK24pQ
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xlu4gBYeYE


I'm not really sure why Noctem has thrash in their genre; they've just sounded like Melodic Black/Death their entire discography.
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Noctem/102839
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMb88dwS0BU
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnTblcwCJYg
* https://noctem.bandcamp.com/album/haeresis

Inhuman Nature is definitely defined as "crossover" on their new album. They have some crossover elements, with more hardcore elements on their first EP; vice versa on their new album.
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/In ... 3540431445
* https://inhumannature.bandcamp.com/album/inhuman-nature

Tore Fagerheim is an artist I've been meaning to bring up for a while now. His full length album, which got him accepted, was pure Melodic Death Metal; however, he needs additional tags. He ventures into pure Metalcore at times. He also has many singles, of many different styles. I think his genre needs to be extended to "Melodic Death Metal, Metalcore, Various." I think the comma works better because he ventures between the really melodic melodies and then into harsh palmuting; not really musically combining the two at the same time.
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/To ... 3540424849
* https://metalguitarstuff.bandcamp.com/a ... lking-fire
* https://metalguitarstuff.bandcamp.com/t ... king-track
* https://metalguitarstuff.bandcamp.com/t ... tic-ballad
* https://metalguitarstuff.bandcamp.com/t ... king-track

Also, I think Rambo Hates Rainbows needs a slight addition, too. They released a Noisecore album in the middle of their discography, so "Black/Sludge/Doom Metal, Noisecore, Electronic." Of the few releases they have, it's the only other full length and the second longest release, so it's a legitimate style they've played. I can't find the first demo, but it included all three styles as well separately.
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ra ... 3540407237
* https://8bitexternal.bandcamp.com/album ... ship-grind

I'm really sorry about this one, guys. Picha's early tag is mildly incorrect; the grindcore/noise early tag as it is would be accurate for a band like Full of Hell or Hatred Surge, but these two releases merit it two different genres: Noisegrind/Gorenoise. Both are uniquely different and are heavily incorporated in both. The noisegrind aspect of it incorporates heavy noise over grind riffs while having an odd uniqeness to it (like Anal Cunt or ShitFuckingShit's first album: https://shitfuckingshit.bandcamp.com/al ... -2006-2007). The gorenoise aspect is seen in parts of the first release and heavily in the second, where it is essentially harsh noise wall-grind, or basically goregrind with the gain and level turned up all the way. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyR9G-IALWA) those two samples/examples lay out the difference in the two and show how it is present in the early tag for Picha.
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Picha/3540427636
* https://picha.bandcamp.com/album/carepicha
* https://picha.bandcamp.com/album/culiando-renalmente


Sorry for the long list, guys. Just get around to it when you're able to.



Gatecreeper are known for having started the hardcore influenced death metal and consistently incorporate it as a secondary genre. I'm not a huge fan of the influences/elements genre tag, but I think adding hardcore as one or the other is appropriate in this case. The hardcore sound is too representative to completely ignore for them.
* https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ga ... 3540382449
* https://gatecreeper.bandcamp.com/album/ ... epravation
* https://gatecreeper.bandcamp.com/album/gatecreeper

I just realized that Infectious Grooves is on here and think that's awesome, but why is their genre funk rock? They play Funk Metal, a sub genre of Alternative Metal. They sound far less like Betty Davis and Funkadelic and more like Primus, Faith No More, and The Beyond. I would even say in the same vein as Scatterbrain, but that's a topic for another time (unless someone else thinks that "heavy" should be replaces with "Alternative").
Funk Rock:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB3C8hvPIqo
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWFvXNA5-eQ
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB9H7zuA5mk
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21sP7orRS3c

Funk Metal
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTjAGIIO_-0
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=953PkxFNiko
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4nFX4roZ6Y
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG_k5CSYKhg
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbLhHtaVIO4
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXBrLMeDCyQ

Infectious Grooves
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f7XwCsx4fs
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVb6kq_94dU
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAJ5-7sqqbc
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Last edited by Bonziepsycho on Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:36 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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GreogianChant
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:30 am
Posts: 9
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:47 pm 
 

This one's gonna be difficult.

I'd like to make the argument that Shadow of Intent needs their genre tag changed. Sure, their older stuff is very much deathcore, but their most recent output is very much void of any deathcore-isms that would make them a deathcore band anymore. Melancholy sounds much like a mix of Dimmu Borgir and Fleshgod Apocalypse. Hardly any breakdowns that would consider them to be deathcore.

Would definitely take a listen to their material. If needed, I would suggest changing the tag to "Melodic Deathcore (early), Symphonic Death Metal (later)"

Reclaimer - Melodic Deathcore (https://shadowofintent7.bandcamp.com/album/reclaimer)

Melancholy - Symphonic Death Metal (https://shadowofintent7.bandcamp.com/album/melancholy)

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Skullycat
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:49 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Uzbekistan
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:18 pm 
 

Mmmm... I don't know what you think, but I think Equilibrium needs to change the genre. For starters, his new album ''Renegades'' lost most of the Folk sound that characterizes it. I feel that the album is Alternative/Melodic Death Metal, and I can match it with Modern Metal bands like In Flames, Soilwork, Scar Symmetry and the occasional Metalcore band. I don't know what they will say, but I leave them to their criterion

If so, they could update the genre as:
Epic Folk Metal (early), Alternative/Melodic Death Metal (later)

Album:
https://open.spotify.com/album/5OwdLCFvErScbK19xeGl8D

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PDS
The Folk One

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:04 pm
Posts: 1558
Location: A forest on an island!
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:48 pm 
 

Skullycat wrote:
Mmmm... I don't know what you think, but I think Equilibrium needs to change the genre. For starters, his new album ''Renegades'' lost most of the Folk sound that characterizes it. I feel that the album is Alternative/Melodic Death Metal, and I can match it with Modern Metal bands like In Flames, Soilwork, Scar Symmetry and the occasional Metalcore band. I don't know what they will say, but I leave them to their criterion

If so, they could update the genre as:
Epic Folk Metal (early), Alternative/Melodic Death Metal (later)

Album:
https://open.spotify.com/album/5OwdLCFvErScbK19xeGl8D


While the album is more some sort of epic/melodic groove metal with folk influences, who knows what will happen when the next album comes out. God who knows what the general Equilibrium fan base will think. Some songs can still sort of be called folk metal but the rest, definitely not. It's a transition album, just gonna have to see what happens first. Or, well that's my take. Past albums had their own influences but this is the first one where the folk isn't he forefront. IMO best wait and see what happens with the release after this one. It took three years to make that but I think it most likely won't take as long if they are continuing the super simple songwriting path.

GreogianChant wrote:
This one's gonna be difficult.

I'd like to make the argument that Shadow of Intent needs their genre tag changed. Sure, their older stuff is very much deathcore, but their most recent output is very much void of any deathcore-isms that would make them a deathcore band anymore. Melancholy sounds much like a mix of Dimmu Borgir and Fleshgod Apocalypse. Hardly any breakdowns that would consider them to be deathcore.

Would definitely take a listen to their material. If needed, I would suggest changing the tag to "Melodic Deathcore (early), Symphonic Death Metal (later)"

Reclaimer - Melodic Deathcore (https://shadowofintent7.bandcamp.com/album/reclaimer)

Melancholy - Symphonic Death Metal (https://shadowofintent7.bandcamp.com/album/melancholy)


You're right on it being difficult. The symphonic bits is prevalent throughout but iirc, it was in the second album as well. As per the riffs, it does sound more death metal/deathcore than straight up deathcore. I'll listen to the other albums and will leave a message on the end decision.

EDIT: Symphonic added.
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Antioch
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Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:01 am 
 

A minor suggestion concerning Atheist's genre. Why's it labeled Death/Thrash Metal with Jazz and Progressive influences. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to label them "Progressive Death/Thrash Metal/Jazz Fusion"?

I'm posting samples as per the rules, but I know many mods around here know the music very well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2KZczLu3dI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuDnEAdX5P0
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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 689
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:12 pm 
 

Cross posting these from the report queue as I refuse to listen to this racist trash (or download anything from that site), which will just cause them to sit in the queue:

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/v ... 8/show/all

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/v ... 0/show/all
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Xenophon wrote:
I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.

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Skullycat
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:49 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Uzbekistan
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:51 pm 
 

Slam/Brutal Death Metal
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ma ... 3540365461

Discography:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GevQhMjOf6k&t=26s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsp-Q7_5O8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xIvGN-ICz4&t=486s

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TheGrimWombat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1537
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:39 pm 
 

Storm of the Light's Bane wrote:
Cross posting these from the report queue as I refuse to listen to this racist trash (or download anything from that site), which will just cause them to sit in the queue:

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/v ... 8/show/all

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/v ... 0/show/all


The Death Before Dishonor report is stretching it, this is pretty much all midpaced RAC influenced thrash metal. Some of it kind of reminds me of https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Bifrost/394 in some parts in that it has some parts that can be reminded of Bathory or blackened heavy metal parts, even. Sure, the opener is a ripper that nods to Slayer or proto-death metal bands from South America, but mostly this is Heavy/Thrash Metal with some of the influences I mentioned earlier.

I'd probably just label it Thrash Metal, however, I would like to hear the input from Muhammadabbadabba on the matter. If any mods want the files, I would be happy to provide them.
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Muhammadabbadabba
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Posts: 1178
Location: R'lyeh
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:03 pm 
 

Storm of the Light's Bane wrote:
Cross posting these from the report queue as I refuse to listen to this racist trash (or download anything from that site), which will just cause them to sit in the queue:

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/v ... 8/show/all

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/v ... 0/show/all

TheGrimWombat wrote:
The Death Before Dishonor report is stretching it, this is pretty much all midpaced RAC influenced thrash metal. Some of it kind of reminds me of https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Bifrost/394 in some parts in that it has some parts that can be reminded of Bathory or blackened heavy metal parts, even. Sure, the opener is a ripper that nods to Slayer or proto-death metal bands from South America, but mostly this is Heavy/Thrash Metal with some of the influences I mentioned earlier.

I'd probably just label it Thrash Metal, however, I would like to hear the input from Muhammadabbadabba on the matter. If any mods want the files, I would be happy to provide them.

I'm no moderator, but I can definitely lend my two cents. Anyone who wants mp3s can message me.

Re: Godnightdream. It's definitely not strictly Heavy Metal, but I wouldn't throw out the descriptor entirely. It's Modern Metal which intersects with so many genres rather than strictly conforming to one convention. I'd call it an intriguing mix of Groove, Thrash, Gothic and Epic Heavy Metal with the occasional Funk/slap bass. Witcher's pretty close to the mark, but some refinement could help nail down this band's genre.

Re: Death Before Dishonor. The Death Metal influences are way too minor to call it Death/Thrash in any capacity. The vocals are more in line with tough guy shouts than death grunts. The Heavy Metal influences are present on account of the RAC influences, but take a lesser role; some is even faintly groovy. I would call this Groove/Thrash Metal with RAC influences.

All interested parties can contact me.
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Muhammadabbadabba
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:43 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
Well I'm not exactly the foremost expert on folk metal but if I'm not mistaken, Skyclad is usually considered to be the first folk metal band, no? Not necessarily the first to use folk elements/instruments, but the first to make that the core of their sound. Now I suppose the question is, since still nobody really sounds like them, do we say they simply laid the foundations and never fully "became" pure folk metal? Or do we say the genre as whole developed in a different direction? Personally, I simply say that "folk metal" describes many different sounds the same way "black metal" does.
PDS wrote:
HIHI, FOLK METAL MOD-SAMA DESU!

I'd say it depends. I don't have early Skyclad available atm. I only have Poverty Line, and Answer Machine? Onwards and, yeah lots of the riffs aren't really folk but Idk if I can really call them Heavy Metal riffs. Skyclad just sort of takes the gamut of genres to be influenced. Little bit of heavy, little bit of thrash, bits o' punk. I swear one song is more Beat Poetry ala Gill Scott-Harris with the guitars following the beat. Though some songs on the era I'm listening to is primarily folk integrated in the riffs.

Considering we do have early proto-black metal bands as like black/speed/something. I'm sort of fine with either option, but I don't think we can just label Skyclad as folk/heavy metal.
Zodijackyl wrote:
Once again, the idea of not overcomplicating things prevails. Just as Mayhem or Tormentor can simply be called "black metal" and Morbid Angel are labeled "death metal," you can simply label Skyclad as "folk metal" without adding further. Keep it simple, if possible.


Pardon me for being THAT guy, but Skyclad's first album was straight up Thrash Metal with only faint Folk instrumentation. Both A Burnt Offering for the Bone Idol and Tracks from the Wilderness were the band's first proper Folk Metal releases that defined the rest of their career.

I would agree that Heavy/Folk Metal would overcomplicate the genre field since Folk Metal is inherently a fusion genre whose definition depends entirely on where the band is from (a Folk Metal band from Ireland or UK won't sound anything like a Folk Metal band from Ukraine or Russia), but the band's early Thrash Metal release should be noted.
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 5988
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:20 pm 
 

As for Death Before Dishonour, I think the proposed variant of tthrash metal/rac, would be fine, for the sake of simplicity. My main point was to get heavy metal from the genre, since this is not traditional heavy metal for sure.
As for Godnightdream, I think ,t hat the genre should containgroove and gothic metal and probaly something else, which would express their influences from other non-metal genres.
These are just my two cents, as the aothor of the original reports. Thanks to whoever proposed any modifications, though.

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TheGrimWombat
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1537
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:39 pm 
 

It shares a lot more in common with trad metal than it does death metal.

Edit:
I think that, as I thought when I submitted the band, that Beetlegork needs an updated genre.
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Be ... 3540425133

https://beetlegork.bandcamp.com/album/ascension

I think calling this band just Sludge Metal doesn't really do it justice.
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