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BuriedUnborn
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:01 pm
Posts: 62
Location: 50°02′09″N 19°10′42″E / 50.035833, 19.178333
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:04 am 
 

So checking various random bands in the site I ended up finding some bands with the next genre tags:

- Alternative Metal
- Thrashcore
- Dark Metal
- Crustcore

I mean, these could be somewhat explained with logic: Alt Metal could just be Alt Rock with metal riffs, Thrashcore = Metalcore + Thrash, Dark Metal some sort of metal with dark riffs/atmosphere and Crustcore = Crust + Metalcore. But considering MA has strict rules regarding band genres and the logic of what's metal and what's not, I find it weird and contradicting.

There are a few bands with "Alternative/X Metal" in their tag, with only one band being purely "Alternative Metal". I frankly don't understand what Alt Metal is, but all known bands catalogued as "Alternative Metal" are blacklisted for being basically Alt Rock, and other bands that are present and can be considered "Alternative Metal" don't carry that tag. Thrashcore is a derivate of hardcore; I've never heard of Thrash Metal + Metalcore being actually called thrashcore, has most bands that play a style like this one are simply marked as "Thrash Metal/Metalcore" or something similar; if some of these are being called "Thrashcore", it gets confusing. Is crustcore supposed to be crust punk or some mix between crust and metalcore? I've never heard of that tbh, and if it's an alternative way of calling crust punk, then it's also kind of confusing.

Lastly, Dark metal is mentioned in the rules as possibly being "anything", and that doesn't explain anything at all, as there are many bands catalogued as "Dark metal" in the site, and they apparently vary a lot in their sound each from the other, with just makes it much more confusing.

I know that not all bands have a solid genre, there are many bands that you might hear them and you can't tell what they're actually playing, and putting something like "Doom/Death/Black/Thrash/Hardcore" is just senseless, so they might be catalogued under something like "Dark" or "Alternative" metal, but nowhere in the site are these genres explained properly.

Since the Encyclopaedia Metallum seeks to be a full and accurate archive of bands, consistency in genre tagging would be something important in my opinion. It's hard to keep the database accurate when some bands are tagged with genres that are not very much real or fully developed, or tagged with alternative names for the genre(s) they actually play. I'd guess those bands with the sole "Thrashcore" tag are "Thrash Metal/Metalcore" actually, as they don't seem to be any side projects and having non-metal bands that have no relation to the metal scene or any well-known metal musician would go against the site's rules, and I'm pretty sure any newbie who sees some bands with these doubtful genre tags might get confused, and potentially start submitting non-metal bands constantly, just to have them rejected and to go to the forums later to ask about these weird genre tags (not like that's my case or anything though).

I guess I've made my point; I'd like to have maybe some explanations as to why these genre tags. If you want, just tell me to go hear the bands and make my own idea of what genre they play and come back to the forums to discuss it and see if it can be changed, because that might actually solve this instead of making a huge text wall trying to find answers from the mods who might be as clueless as I am in some of these cases.

Lastly, I've got a suggestion that could probably improve the site somewhat and give direction to people who's not too familiar with certain metal genres. The site's rules explain what genres are accepted and what genres are not, as well as the difference between one bias of a genre and the other, but I don't think there's anywhere in the site where genres are actually explained. I mean, there's Wikipedia for that, but having a section where some other genres like "Death 'n' Roll" or certain combinations like "Melodic Death Metal/Metalcore" are explained, together with maybe some examples of acceptable bands and some explanation of how the riffing and sound of those genres is, in order to guide newbies and probably clear some doubts as to when a band is acceptable or not a bit better than the rules do.

That's everything I've got to say. Cheers.
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6127
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:26 am 
 

Regardingthrashcore : In some European countries, mine included _thrhcore" was just another term wfor crossover thrash. In act, it was used prdominatly to the term crossover thrash. That is thank to the influence of German metal magazines like Metal Hammer and Rock Hard, who did the same. That is why they are some bands that tag, because some users and moderators from non----english speaking countries in the early stage of database did not know about the strict disctinction in Anglo -Saxon wworld, so some bands were accepted with that tag. When reviewing such bands, you must first listen to the music , and then decide, if they are actually metal or not. You can of course report the bands with unappropriate genre and make your owngenre suggestion. If you think, that, after listening to samples , some of those bands are not metal, simply bring them up in the respective "cleaning"thread.
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https://thrownintothefire.wixsite.com/m ... %9D-Anyway

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PaganiusI
Zee Bombelecher

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm
Posts: 1158
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 5:55 am 
 

For most of those bands, I suppose the genres are leftovers from ancient time (at least Dark Metal is). Dark Metal is actually a genre that we want to get rid of, but many of those bands lack sufficient samples so we can adjust them.

Feel free to track down the music and post them in the genre changing thread, don't flag a report for each and every one of them.

As for the Alt Metal thing, that is a valid descriptor for bands that have alt metal mixed into their sound, but is usually not acceptable on its own. Don't see a problem here.

And personally I don't think explaining every single genre in the rules is of much use really since mods are the only ones that can change them anyway. There's other sources for that.
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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:53 am 
 

Witcher wrote:
You can of course report the bands with unappropriate genre and make your owngenre suggestion.


PaganiusI wrote:
Feel free to track down the music and post them in the genre changing thread, don't flag a report for each and every one of them.


*cough cough*
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I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6127
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:10 am 
 

I have unfortunately read Paganiusi's message after i had already more than half of them (thrashcore( done, sorry for that.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4941
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:33 am 
 

Thrashcore is refers to fast (American) hardcore punk. Examples would be early D.R.I. but also Siege and to name a newer band Reproach. It is not thrash/metalcore even though for a minute in the 2000's some people tried to adopt this term for that.
Thrashcore is also where thrash metal got its name from. Thrash metal was metal that sounded like fast hardcore punk but then thrash metal got bigger than thrash ever was and then to differentiate between the 2 terms people started to call thrash thrashcore.

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Azmodes
Ontologically Outrageous

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10140
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:22 am 
 

There used to be a lot more "dark metal" entries on MA, technically it's an ongoing cleanup. Most of the remaining ones are still that way because we simply couldn't find anything to listen to and replace it with whatever's more fitting.

Something similar goes for "thrashcore". A few years back I went through all the entries and adjusted what I could for clarity, since only very rarely was it actually the fastcore kind of thing. But the work is far from done.
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6127
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:57 pm 
 

I went through the thrashcore bands again and posted my proposals in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=35533&p=2883830#p2883830
A lot of these bands were in fact groove metal, some were crossover thrash and one was even nu-metal- The Pisces.
Unfortunately, it is hard to find samples for BlackMetalGirl's bands and they are the most common with this problematic tag.

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