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Azmodes
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:04 pm 
 

Deleted Star Gazer from Germany. One heavy metal 7'' single, but the rest of their discography (3 full-lengths) is predominantly melodic hard rock.
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Midnightwards666
Heavy Metal C-3PO

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
Posts: 975
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:12 pm 
 

So what is the rule on accepting metal singles? I just searched the rules and noticed that one metal single drowned out by several non-metal full-lengths will not allow the band a place on MA... but what if a band have no other albums released than one single? I already knew a band needed one fully unquestionnably metal album in order to gain acceptance, and from then on they can in theory play electronic dance music and still gain acceptance. Does this only apply for full-lengths?
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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:34 pm 
 

I would say case by case basis. For instance if there's some obscure 80s hr/hm band that released like one 7" and that's all it's a completely different story than a band from 2017 who has one metal single y'know. And yeah, their discography will be taken into account. Pretty sure the band Az posted about got deleted because someone mentioned they had a ton of material that wasn't taken into account when they were submitted years ago.
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Krister Jensen
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:48 am
Posts: 376
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:25 am 
 

Apathetical Syndrome needs to be revaluated, sounds too much ambient. download.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 7145
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:54 am 
 

For explanation about Stargazer, it was apparently deleted as the result of my submission yesterday. I could not find the band in the Archives, since they were listed as Star Gazer and not Stargazer, so I wanted to submit them myself. I knew, that heir first album was not consistently metal, so I submitted them with samples from the first single and the full album Dinomania, which I own and which is imo consequently heavier than their first album. The submission was naturally rejected as duplicate and it turns out, that even Dinomania was not metal enough, sincesthe band got quickly deleted afterwards. Hre is their single , if sanybody wants to listen to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNkM-nSsC_0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmPfhiE4B9M

On another topic, can please somebody please review the bands Crossfaith and Metal Nobre, which I have posted on the previous page: I know they have multiple albums, but i just do not want it to get overlooked or at lest would like to know, if somebody is already working on it?

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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:13 am 
 

HouseSpiders wrote:
So what is the rule on accepting metal singles? I just searched the rules and noticed that one metal single drowned out by several non-metal full-lengths will not allow the band a place on MA... but what if a band have no other albums released than one single? I already knew a band needed one fully unquestionnably metal album in order to gain acceptance, and from then on they can in theory play electronic dance music and still gain acceptance. Does this only apply for full-lengths?

Full-lengths are preferred. EPs might work, but as Eros said, it depends on the individual case. The way I see it, it's all about context and documenting things as they are. So a case like Star Gazer, where there is one metal single and a sizeable non-metal discography, that's not acceptable. However, if a band only released an acceptable single and nothing else, that would be fine, because their output as a whole is clearly metal and that's the simple reality of it. But what if they had released a rock album after that, you might say? Well, they didn't. What if they had one recorded, but by some unfortunate happenstance it never got released? Well, they didn't release it. That's how things turned out. And if they ever did, we'd have to take another look at the entry.

Star Gazer was approved by me in 2014 and although I'm not sure, it could be that I simply hadn't been aware of the post-7'' material (there was only mention of the single in the submission notes and that the band "got more melodic later on"). Most of the discography was added after they were approved. Witcher's duplicate (and Antioch and Paganius being observant) made me check out their full-lengths and none of them are predominantly metal, sadly.

Witcher, I'll check out Crossfaith and Metal Nobre when I can. For the record, there is no need to constantly bump your posts in here, unless we are talking about something getting buried after a month or so. This thread can move slowly, but we're keeping track of it.
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Texas King
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:05 am 
 

Why is White Zombie accepted as a (true) METAL band?

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~Guest 368187
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:09 am 
 

Texas King wrote:
Why is White Zombie accepted as a (true) METAL band?

Because they have at least one metal album. La Sexorcisto: Devil Music Vol. 1 is pretty clearly a (groove) metal album.

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Midnightwards666
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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:55 am 
 

Erosion of Humanity wrote:
I would say case by case basis. For instance if there's some obscure 80s hr/hm band that released like one 7" and that's all it's a completely different story than a band from 2017 who has one metal single y'know. And yeah, their discography will be taken into account. Pretty sure the band Az posted about got deleted because someone mentioned they had a ton of material that wasn't taken into account when they were submitted years ago.

Azmodes wrote:
Full-lengths are preferred. EPs might work, but as Eros said, it depends on the individual case. The way I see it, it's all about context and documenting things as they are. So a case like Star Gazer, where there is one metal single and a sizeable non-metal discography, that's not acceptable. However, if a band only released an acceptable single and nothing else, that would be fine, because their output as a whole is clearly metal and that's the simple reality of it. But what if they had released a rock album after that, you might say? Well, they didn't. What if they had one recorded, but by some unfortunate happenstance it never got released? Well, they didn't release it. That's how things turned out. And if they ever did, we'd have to take another look at the entry.

Star Gazer was approved by me in 2014 and although I'm not sure, it could be that I simply hadn't been aware of the post-7'' material (there was only mention of the single in the submission notes and that the band "got more melodic later on"). Most of the discography was added after they were approved. Witcher's duplicate (and Antioch and Paganius being observant) made me check out their full-lengths and none of them are predominantly metal, sadly.

Witcher, I'll check out Crossfaith and Metal Nobre when I can. For the record, there is no need to constantly bump your posts in here, unless we are talking about something getting buried after a month or so. This thread can move slowly, but we're keeping track of it.


Thanks. I wasn't appealing against the deletion, I just wanted to understand the rule better for future references, in case I ever submit a band again or find an accepted band no longer matching MA criteria. To be honest, I never even knew that bands could be subject to re-evaluation based on later releases.
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Witcher
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:18 pm 
 

Another dubious band is the metalcore band Crossing Edge, since they play imo exactly the kind of alternative tinged metalcore with emoish melodies, that Sonic Syndicate play on their later albums and that is more core than metal. Samples:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/5k1OePx7NuIotEyYT4SLR0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOHS3RDwCz0

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Witcher
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:18 am 
 

And yet anothr problematic band is Faceplate, listed here as thrash/Power metal. I could not find any samples, but German rock Hard describes the music as groove-core with industrial influences and Discogs.com lists the album as "experimental hardcore.
Review: Mit ihrem atmosphärischen Groove-Core, gespickt mit Industrial-Hints, erinnern FACEPLATE hier und da ein wenig an die Groovemonster von Souls At Zero, ohne deren Klasse ganz zu erreichen. Trotzdem geben die Jungs aus Kanada auf ihrem Erstling eine ganz passable Figur ab. Sicher auch ein Verdienst von Produzent Mark S. Berry (u.a. VoiVod), der die rhythmusbetonte Mucke des Vierers prima in Szene gesetzt hat, ohne die Band in ein zu enges Soundkorsett zu zwängen. So bleiben der Gruppe genügend Freiräume, in denen sie ihre urwüchsige Power entfalten kann. Leider mangelt es dem FACEPLATE-Debüt auf die Dauer ein wenig an der nötigen Abwechslung, obwohl sich die Jungs zumindest in Sachen Geschwindigkeit größte Mühe gegeben haben. Aus dem Rahmen fallen mit der völlig kaputten Geräuscheskapade 'Deep False Hope' (klingt wie'ne Mischung aus Ministry und Einstürzende Neubauten) und der balladesk-düsteren Black Sabbath meets Alice In Chains-Nummen 'Morose' eigentlich nur zwei der zwölf Tracks. Ansonsten groovt es eigentlich ständig, was einem mit der Zeit doch gewaltig auf die Eier gehen kann. Sieben Punkte mit Aufwärtstendenz haben sich FACEPLATE, die auf dem letztjährigen Dynamo Open Air fleißig Promomaterial verteilt hatten und dadurch letzten Endes auch den Deal bei Milestone an Land ziehen konnten, aber allemal verdient.
https://www.rockhard.de/megazine/review ... ew%5D=3494


https://www.discogs.com/Faceplate-Casua ... e/11463764

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Antioch
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:55 am 
 

Witcher wrote:
Faceplate

I've ordered a copy from Discogs. Pretty cheap.
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Witcher
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:55 am 
 

Thanks a lot, Antioch. Interesting conicidence, since the rereason, whey I posted this, was the fact, the a copy of the album appeared on a Czech auction site and I was gathering info on the band, if it is worth buying or not. I finally decided not to, since the postage I would pay wwould be higher than the actual price of the CD and I do not want to have in my collection CDs I do not really like. https://aukro.cz/faceplate-casual-obser ... 6934323901

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Antioch
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:20 am 
 

I paid €7 for 4 CDs incl. postage (from Germany). Nothing I can't resell at the same price.
Bought this one, too:
http://www.discogs.com/Bliss-Re-Thought/release/1644387
It'll need re-assessing, too, at some point *hint Azzy*.
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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:36 am 
 

Metal Nobre deleted. Another mod commented on Crossfaith, saying that they're borderline acceptable, but perhaps more of us will chip in on this one.

Crossing Edge was approved based on the first full-length. I'll have another listen.

Thanks, Antioch. Lemme know.
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Witcher
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:07 am 
 

Thanks, Azmodaz.
Another band I was wondering about recently is Holy Soldier. I know, that they were accepted based on their first album, but I was listening to it recently and ffrankly I do not find any difference in style or heaviness between H"Holy Soldier" and "Last Train". They both sound to me like Ratt's Out Of The Cellar album, combined with Dokken's more hard rock material, also more Har rock than metal. The only songs, that could be called metal on the debut are "Tear Down The Walls" and with some hesitation "See No Evil" , which has something similar to Queensryche, the rest is predominantly hard rock imo. The third album is grunge inspired modern hard rock, by the way. Here are all three albums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFx5KCtQsvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-l4GzF234A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-0pi_B ... 5D5E4E2C33

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Witcher
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:25 am 
 

The Czech bband Harlej also needs re-evaluation, since they play imo hard rock with punk influences and not really metal: Full album and samples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQKNXix ... x0wzCoavm0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xapbQ0x2AOE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMdklJq ... DO-NK-2hbN
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXL5lIE ... ED93ECD26D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNOEE_Y1RRw
https://www.youtube.com/user/harlejTV

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Midnight Rider
Metalhead

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Posts: 400
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:18 am 
 

Witcher wrote:

Full-length 1995 / Full-lenght 2000 / Full-lenght 2002 / Full-lenght 2004 / 2010 Compilation /Full-lenght 2011 / Full-lenght 2012 / Full-lenght 2014

Basically, Punk rock/Hard rock (early), Skate punk/Pop punk (later). :eek: Nuked!

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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:15 am 
 

Crossing Edge nuked.
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Witcher
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:37 am 
 

The Czech band Drunk President is imo more hard rock with funk influences than heavy metal with funk influences, they sound like a mix of Extreme and Mr.Big. Here are two songs on Youttube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujwwROdsWG0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPuiDSEuSOM
Unfortunately I do not know, if this download from Ulozto will work for you:
https://www.uloz.to/!StHCNGc6/drunk-pre ... ossles-rar

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Krister Jensen
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:48 am
Posts: 376
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:51 am 
 

Krister Jensen wrote:
Apathetical Syndrome needs to be revaluated, sounds too much ambient. download.


+

Blodtørst - sounds strange for sludge metal plus the quality is rather poor. I've checked that's their only release. Download.

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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:12 am 
 

Yeah, Blodtørst isn't sludge. Borderline instrumental stoner rock/metal and as a digital release it's kinda wonky. Deleted.

Drunk President deleted.
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Witcher
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:45 am 
 

Thanks again.
Another one: Steven Patrick, former vocalist of Holy Soldier. There is one real heavy metal song on "Red Reign", namely "Fire", but again, the rest of the album is predominantly hard rock imo. Full album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n34o8-o ... FMCqvDJbc7

His second album"Guns&Gold" is entirely in country&blues style and has nothing to do with metal whatsoever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCqiowa7QpY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTlV65l7s1Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE90aJ ... 8RSXAPsCQQ
https://store.cdbaby.com/cd/stevenpatrick2

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Helvede
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:28 pm
Posts: 1674
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:15 am 
 

Antioch wrote:
Witcher wrote:
Faceplate

I've ordered a copy from Discogs. Pretty cheap.


I had that Faceplate once. I remember it as metal.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 7145
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:45 am 
 

The Swedish band Crashdiet iis imo pure sleaze/glam/hard rock and not really predominantly heavy metal. Their style is in no way different from other Scandinavian neo-glam bands like Crazy Lixx, Hardcore Superstar, Dirty Penny, Santa Cruz etc., so I see not much reason in featuring then here.
Samples: Full first album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opTHtib59cE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC1Ztug7MhE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgeXu3yYzn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nsNTmPp74c
https://www.youtube.com/user/MrSleaze
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crQ26FCqnmU
https://open.spotify.com/artist/1cB013ULmW96lglRcrWTut

Edit: To have the Holy Soldier samples complete, here are their two early demos. The first one, the three track demo from 1985, is really heavy metal in style, while the second demo from 1988 is already in the polished hard rock style of the debut album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5cjlY3RcXE

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HOT_DOG_DAY_89
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Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 11:52 am
Posts: 157
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:17 am 
 

I always figured Crashdïet was accepted because they draw a lot of inspiration from the more metal works of Mötley Crüe and Skid Row.

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Azmodes
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:46 am 
 

I remember we wanted to review Crashdïet again at some point, but it would appear that kind of slipped through the cracks. Oops.

Helvede wrote:
I had that Faceplate once. I remember it as metal.

eeeeeh, Antioch sent me the album and it's certainly not thrash/power. Hardly metal at all; the review Witcher posted isn't wrong. It's some kind of industrial mallcore/groove, probably deletable. EDIT: It's gone.
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Antioch
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:15 pm 
 

I realize this has been here for very long, and you may want to keep it as a side-project, but the band isn't really metal.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sundown/2384

Design 19 is goth rock...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7r_tJY ... rt_radio=1

...and Glimmer is electronic/industrial music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nKMHlv ... LMl5j27RCw
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BuriedUnborn
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:12 pm 
 

Based on what information was 14-22. The only thing I can find about this band is some pages citing that its only known member (Adrián Cenci) recorded "Calles de Cemento" at age 15.

There is no album cover, no photo of the release, not even a single known track of it, only the name of the release, a vague date (1985), the starting year of the band (1983) and just one known member of the band.

This was added more than 9 years ago though, I don't know if it was accepted thanks to samples, some review in a fanzine or website or anything like this, but this is way too obscure and it lacks almost any crucial info.
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PaganiusI
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:57 pm 
 

That's...not uncommon for obscure 80s/90s stuff, though. Keep in mind that just because there's no info now, doesn't mean there hasn't been info when it got added. There most likely was, because otherwise it wouldn't have been accepted.
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Texas King
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:47 pm 
 

Why are Scorpions accepted as a metal band on MA when they've never played metal music, but hard rock (up until Love at First Sting and cheesy rock in the later period)? They've never made the album that can be considered mostly metal.

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~Guest 368187
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:58 pm 
 

Texas King wrote:
Why are Scorpions accepted as a metal band on MA when they've never played metal music, but hard rock (up until Love at First Sting and cheesy rock in the later period)? They've never made the album that can be considered mostly metal.

Because they have at least one album we consider metal. How about you stop asking about big bands?

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Texas King
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:59 pm 
 

Storm of the Light's Bane wrote:
Texas King wrote:
Why are Scorpions accepted as a metal band on MA when they've never played metal music, but hard rock (up until Love at First Sting and cheesy rock in the later period)? They've never made the album that can be considered mostly metal.

Because they have at least one album we consider metal. How about you stop asking about big bands?


Can you tell me which album exactly?

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~Guest 368187
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:07 pm 
 

Texas King wrote:
Can you tell me which album exactly?

https://www.metal-archives.com/news/view/id/86
This is simply all that needs to be said about the topic. They are mentioned in the rules, as well and it even says they aren't going anywhere. So, again, please stop asking about very well known bands.

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Derigin
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:09 pm 
 

It's been a while, but it was a 70s' era album: In Trance, Taken by Force, etc.

But as Storm says, please do stop asking about famous, well-known bands. We don't say this because we're mad at you, or anything of that sort, but just that we have discussed them to death, and if you search this forum you're more than certain to find the answer you are looking for about them. Repeating ad nauseum the reasons we rejected or accepted a band isn't something we like to do.
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IntoNevermore
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:31 pm
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Location: Venezuela
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:33 pm 
 

Hi,

I was wondering if I could re-submit the band Old Love, it was rejected a few years ago with the following message:

"While the "Perversion" EP seems to be leaning towards post-black metal, the first EP is certainly post-hardcore. Given that they're both rather short digital-only EPs, I don't think this is currently acceptable based on this output. There certainly isn't a complete, predominantly metal album."

Given that the rules have changed a bit, I would like to know if their 5 track EP Perversion can make them eligible to be accepted. Thanks.
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theposega wrote:
pressingtoplead13 wrote:
what those bands do is water it down

so you perfectly understand why people don't like the shit

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 7145
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:56 am 
 

I was very surprised today to find the band Streets here, since they play a very commercial style of melodic hard rock/aor, which has absolutely nothing to do with metal and which is in the vein of bands like Foreigner, Journey or Alaska. Please, listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ1HrqA ... U2R7ZnvEiK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FPAdU9U1R8
https://heavyharmonies.com/cgi-bin/band ... ndNum=1199
Joe Cubie's post in the "genre" thread made me notice, that Streets are listed, please see it here: https://www.metal-archives.com/board/vi ... 8#p2813258

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 11196
Location: Ob der Enns, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:16 am 
 

IntoNevermore wrote:
Hi,

I was wondering if I could re-submit the band Old Love, it was rejected a few years ago with the following message:

"While the "Perversion" EP seems to be leaning towards post-black metal, the first EP is certainly post-hardcore. Given that they're both rather short digital-only EPs, I don't think this is currently acceptable based on this output. There certainly isn't a complete, predominantly metal album."

Given that the rules have changed a bit, I would like to know if their 5 track EP Perversion can make them eligible to be accepted. Thanks.

Wrong thread, please post in the correct one.

Witcher wrote:
I was very surprised today to find the band Streets here, since they play a very commercial style of melodic hard rock/aor, which has absolutely nothing to do with metal and which is in the vein of bands like Foreigner, Journey or Alaska. Please, listen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ1HrqA ... U2R7ZnvEiK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FPAdU9U1R8
https://heavyharmonies.com/cgi-bin/band ... ndNum=1199
Joe Cubie's post in the "genre" thread made me notice, that Streets are listed, please see it here: https://www.metal-archives.com/board/vi ... 8#p2813258

Deleted. I don't know how this got approved.
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Shadechaser
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:06 am
Posts: 211
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:21 am 
 

hi.
HeavierThanThou systematically adds misc stuff of lineup both to appropriate tab and additional notes.
also he adds "bandcamp" to "version description" of digital versions.
example:
https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/D ... her/729574
and respective digital version:
https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/D ... her/729579
as for my disagreement with "bandcamp" note, here's this album on amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Crusher-D ... C3%B6dsrit
please sent a friendly reminder to him.
cheers.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 7145
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:16 am 
 

I am not a moderator, but I tthink, that your post was intended to be in another thread, Shadechaser. This is the correct thread you seek: https://www.metal-archives.com/board/vi ... 6#p2813406

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