A cuple of things:
I have started listening to metal, wwhen I was twlve in 1988. The first son, which has drawn me to metal , wasNa panské by the Slovakian band Dereš. Any mamathematical problem with that?
YEs, I was sometimes qute rude and not always very firiendlywith users as ma moderator. But some users and maybe also the site owner, rmember, that I started ofquie polite, my increasing rudenss was very much a rection on the demand for a _"more reslute" approa Nobody of the aamins and site owners, however, approached me and asked my to aaadjust my approach. O the contrary, rather harsh treatment of users was pretty much the norm in those times, which some may have already forgotten.
Why you bring it up in a discussion about a band is beyond me.

I have also completely missed the fact, aht ththat another moderator, King Spooky, agreed with me about the band's deletion Will you alalso call his view problematic in regard to borderline bands? I think not.

Most importantly,tly the age difference may be only ten years, but the ten years also matter, as you are showing by calling me premanently "kiddo". Not only it isimmature, but as you may know, I have completely lost myeyesight due to damaged eye nerves, this database is one of the last sources of joy and entertainment for me now. To call a badly handicapped, amost 45 yers oldperson a "kiddo" should make you think about yourslf and your own character rahter then publicly dissecting mine real or assumed mistakes. Not matter what you say in the future, this fact will always
bring me the moral prevalence.

Also, spare me , please, of your machisms as "don't you ever". Yur sudden intervention, after a moderator has agreed with me, was more than stange, and I will also voic my opinion equally clearly in the future, in ccases, wwhere I am ststrongly convinced, that I am right.

Nobody cares, man. The whole "I've been listening to metal since I was 12, and know better than you kids" rhetoric is some of the cringiest shit, and easily one of the most obnoxious kneejerk reactions seen from metalheads. It reads like a dick waving contest, meant to try to suggest that one person is better than another based solely on the length in time they've been listening to metal, whereas expertise and knowledge with music don't strictly come from age. It's the metal equivalent of "respect your elders"; it's a copout and it's ageist as fuck. If a person has to lean on it in a discussion, it means they've lost and surrendered to juvenile schoolyard tactics to try to come off the better person. It has no weight here.


You are right that it was a different time; toxic behaviour was more likely to be excused away back then than it is now. There was a culture that promoted elitism, and secrecy, and being generally rude and dismissive of users. It's so bad that despite years of trying to do the exact opposite - being more open, transparent and reasonable with our users - you still have visitors from across the Internet who incorrectly see us as this awful, terrible, toxic place. You were part of that; in fact, you epitomized it. It got so bad that admins did approach you about it; I know, because I was privy to it and was aware of it. You may deny it, and I don't know the exact details of what they told you, but I knew Nightgaunt and Evenfiel well enough to know they did act on complaints - of which there were many - and did reach out to you politely about them. The Internet is a great archive for past behaviour, and you don't have to look far back for it, especially even on this board; the number of times you dismissed users with rude, crude and overtly negative messages; how you hounded after some users to be banned or punished on the sole basis that they disagreed with you; how polite and friendly questions were given harsh and obtuse answers; and how you went to other communities to try to defend MA, but only made situations worse by being arrogant and angry in every response you gave. You had a bad temper and it showed, and a number of users who are now well-respected regulars and mods were targets of that abuse. Sure, you weren't the only authority figure that treated users like shit, but you were one of the worst for it.

You may have changed and become a better person, and at MA I like to think we've moved beyond much of that behaviour from our staff, but it gets brought up in discussions like this because people get sick of the hypocrisy and your arrogance. People here remember what you were like, and find it ironic how you whine and bitch about being ill-treated by the staff, but did worse to other users in the same position that you are in now. It's perplexing to the rest of us that, after years of putting down users that routinely talked back to you, dismissed what you said, or even just disagreed with you, that you would partake in the same behaviour you condemned now that you're a regular user. That said, we're not assholes here. That toxic behaviour is a thing that, I'd hope, is a thing of the past here, and we wouldn't tolerate putting people down, or treating them like shit, and certainly not punishing users for disagreeing with us. However, painting us like that is a disservice that you know - you should know, from your own experience - isn't the norm for most of us. You're not a victim here, and we're not going to play the game of being your executioners. We have responded politely to your comments, many of which have come off with this air of authority that you do not have here anymore. You have a tendency to treat our mods with disregard. We trust them. They have more than earned to be respected here.

You know what's a little sad, Witcher? When you came back, there were some mods and users who looked forward to it. They were excited to have someone who was a great contributor of the past come back to help us in our collective efforts, and those efforts are appreciated. But those same people have soured since then, in large part because the impression you've left is one of a person who sees themselves as right all the time, needs to be an authority figure, victimizes themselves, and constantly sees this need to argue and fight whatever decisions or actions are taken by others. We want to foster an environment of cooperation. Are you able to do that?


Opsius' post to you on the band didn't contradict anything KingSpooky said. We work as a team here. As a newer mod who gave his opinion, he waited to see the input of other mods. Opsius pointed out, rightly, that the band was already assessed beforehand by multiple mods, and seen as fine. He gave an explanation as to why it was fine. His first post to you was friendly, reasonable, and explanatory. That does not give you carte blanche to seek the opinions of other mods, or to try to attempt to sow discord between mods, saying one disagrees and another agrees. You don't get to be upset and throw a tantrum because we won't entertain that. It may not have been the case when you were a mod, but nowadays we work as a team. If there's disagreements, we talk about them as a team. If KingSpooky was so fussed about the band, and truly believed it didn't belong, he'd talk about it with Opsius and I and the rest of the staff. This is what happens when you work together and get along. Beyond bringing up the band to our attention, you are not privy or a part of those discussions between staff.

I may give a friendly suggestion here, though. You seem hung up on wanting to participate with some authority on the site, in some manner. Loads of our users get by without having to feel this need to be authoritative here; they're just happy to contribute or edit the site, and perhaps someday, we may look at the work they've done and offer them more privileges. That doesn't totally seem to be the case with you. Your participation is appreciated; you've done stellar work on researching bands, but you also get involved in activities that border on trying to come off as an authority figure here. Some of these activities you've been warned about, such as your reports on bands where you were giving your opinion about acceptability. It seems your actions in this cleansing thread are similar, where you're intent on constantly bringing up bands for removal, because you want to have your opinion matter as to whether it's acceptable or not. It is healthy for users to let us know which bands should be removed from the blacklist, or ones that were accepted but perhaps in error. We're human, we make mistakes. But, the desire to constantly bring up bands for removal serves another purpose, which is to get your opinions on metalness to the forefront of decisions on bands on the site... like it was in the past when you were a mod on the band queue. When you're wrong - and that happens more often than not - you get upset, angry, and lash out like you've been doing now. My suggestion might be to take a step back. Maybe stop bringing up bands for removal. Recognize that your opinion is that of a user, and that while we appreciate it, we do not need to follow it. And, if you really are just wanting to contribute to the site, that you just focus on activities where your opinion about the music or about a policy isn't a factor. Maybe then you won't feel so victimized by mods who don't agree with you.


Nobody is making fun of you for your disability, or criticizing your suffering. That's not tolerated here; we're not ableist, and in fact are very sympathetic of your disability. It is not your disability that's an issue. It's your attitude and your tendency to be arrogant and authoritative, neither of which are acceptable here.


When it comes to a mod's decision, your opinion doesn't matter. That's not us being assholes, or being dictators, or being rude to you. It's just the truth. Once a moderator has made a decision, that's it, the only people whose opinions matter about that decision are other mods, and you are not another mod.

Only brifly:
Neither Nighgaint, not Evenfiel ever racks out to meabout my beahvour about the users. The noly time Nightgaint reached to me was when he aked me to sstop rpoposing rrviews for deletion, which I promptly did. What suprises mem, is thatwhen I return, I was being classed as one of the sources of all evil , which happaned in the past.The behauvour was fairly normal, even one of the site owners called some users "pissants" and "whelps".I recognize and respect, aht the enviroment has changed, butthat does not give you the free hand to constantly bombard me with my alleged or real past mistakes in relationship with users.

I fully Agree, that mobody is pperfect and that I also may make mistakes in my judgement, but there are cases, ehter I am absolutely convinced of my right. Yes, I consider my iopinion to be authoritative to some degree.I see, that you will probably never understnd , what I mmean , so just let's leave it at that.

You do not want to acknowledge me in my opions just as "person, who knows a lot about metl" and whose opopinion should mattter, now matter in which postition he is.


If myrecent handicap has taight me anything, it is to defend my self and mey own intergrity from eople who feel in some way privileged. You are not in my place, so you can understand
I appreciate you calm response andyur proposals. I wil try to avoid further confofrontations in this thread.
Howver , you shold also acknowledge, that in both of my confrontations with Obbsious, he was the one to include derogatory prsonal commentts , in the first case even answerrting in a vry ssarcastic and condescending way. when I answered in the same iironic way, I got a warning. In such cases, I don't care about the rank or posttion of person whwo did it, but I respind in a way of same treatment.
You are right, I consider myself a person of authority in the metal field. IY do notapire currently for any site positio, since my handicp, but the oly thing I wanted, was that you could took me as someone whose opnion should have a large witght , no matter If he's a moderator or not. If that is not possible, I willl have to live with it, though i aadnit , that's a bitter pill for me to swallo

I also aknowledge my mistaken suggestion, when I have fully repect, when King Spooky pointed me to the to the album, which was metal.
ww.


What I cn't accept , especially in my currentstate,when a person, aa modmoderator or toher or ther , speals highly condescendinto me, or isult me by calling me names, which clearly serves to dehumanize and niniscule oponnents in discussion, which the moderatour finds "anannoying", pesky or disrespecttful. You should walk a mmile in my shoes to understand why. g in

Such person and its comments have lost any wight and importance to me, no matter if he has your trust or the trust of the site owners.

I really appreciate your response, you advice and your sincerity. But plese, stop reminging me about my past real or alleged mistakes in relation to the users. It was many yeras ago, I have forgotten most of them, I was never aked to adjust my behaviour except for the one case with the reviews and mstrictly from the human point of view,I don't understand, why some mods and admins, including one of the site owners, felt the need to bring it up aginst me in discussions. OOOf course, I am not ppefect, but to start this when I am down and with a big personal pain.
Actuallly, It was me who pointed out the fact, that the moderator Christkiller calls some users "subhumans who blong to the gas chambers", don't you remember anymore?
Let me close with the remark, that I will take some ouof your adices at heart and that I always appreciate your opinion.

P.s. I have solved the Zemětřesení mystery,please see my comment in the respective thread or my report on the band. It is related to this topic, since it was real real band, but a hard rock tribute band, which should be removed from the site.

On a completely different note, any update on Steel Owl? There seems to be a deadlock with one keep and one delete.

I was the one who originally petitioned for their removal before retracting after a more thorough second listen. To me, Steel Owl is one of those barely Metal bands, but perhaps we could use more ears.

Deleted NZZN, Pole Position and Braveheart.


It's listed as an Åkerfeldt side-project/exception, not because we think it's metal (a fact reflected in the absence of "metal" in the genre tag).

Eh, in my own independent assessment, I think Randomised is acceptable, although it does have two Hard Rock tracks, namely "Heart Beat" and "Rainbow". The rest is a mix of German Heavy Metal in the vein of Scorpions and Accept.

Just give a very cursory listen to the other stuff which is more Hard Rock.

That's what I was thinking (minus the Soundgarden part) haha.



Any update on this one? Obviously, not my "request" or whatever you want to call it, but I am pretty interested in if this is okay since it sounded borderline to me from what I've heard.

Just listened to more albums from this band. My own assessment by album:

• We'll Be with You: a very rough mix of Heavy Metal and Hard Rock with neither genre dominating over the other. A real case of 50/50
• Randomised: primarily Heavy Metal with a few Hard Rock tracks
• Bodygames: a mix of Glam/Hard Rock and Heavy Metal with the Glam being more prevalent
• Homeless: a mix of Glam/Hard Rock and Heavy Metal with the Metal being predominant but less than Randomised. Much more metallic than Bodygames. Reminds me of the French band Trust

Obvious, the mods will need to step in here with their own takes, but in my opinion, Randomised and Homeless make the strongest case for their inclusion. Make of that what you will.

WhatDrivesTheWeak deleted.
Accidental blacklist evasion for What Drives The Weak, the newest album is also borderline at best.

Retaliation (Croatia) - insignificant name change to The Rite of Retaliation with the same members. We have Reborn and Cult of Reborn in the same entry, so those two bands should be treated as one entry as well.
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Retaliation/126480

Deleted Monoxide (US) - duplicate entry of New York band.

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/%D ... iscography

More like hardcore/alternative with some groove metal touches (guess it is called nu metal then?). Samples are found only here though:
https://vk.com/club88446700

Deleted Attica (Denmark) - duplicate entry.

Will merge.

Ash. The single Midnight Witch, upon which the band was porbably accepted, contains two songs, whose riffing is imo just the standart seventies hard rock type, they are not exceptionally heavy and the guitar papplaying is very far from the heave riffs of Bands like Black Sabbath. The first song is quite epic, but other seventies hard rock bands like Uriah Heep has such epic songs. The first single"Avignon", is soft psychedelic folk rock.
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ash/3540409808
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LAYuGq__Fk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPEahF-3xVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz_Qa6k_7O0
Uriah Heep"Rainbow Demon" for comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEdKcblmctA

Astro Negro nuked. No valid release as of now, only a preview track of an upcoming EP on bandcamp and some invalid promo CDs.

Deleted Bundeswelfra (Poland) - added based on info in a zine that had their name misspelled this way and demo name was printed as "The Totem". It is the band Bundeswehra (already on the page), and the release title is "Totem" (not "The Totem").

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Te ... 3540464018

Is this band eligible for MA? The MA pages listes just 3 releases by the band, but if you look at the discogs page, the discography is much bigger: https://www.discogs.com/ru/artist/668508-Tem-Oph-Ab
That's said all of the material is noise/industrial/ambient with that single-track rehearsal being an exception:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Tem+Oph+Ab

I made a report about it while the forum was seemingly down (perhaps just for me) but, Speedfreaks should go, likely.

https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/745050

Please, could the bands Trust and Trust Rocks be merged?
It was only a name modification, not a complete change, and it eas done solely to avoid confusion with the Freach band Trust. The was only a change of bassists , which was not crucial for the band or tis sound. When band leader Marc Piras left, the band changed its name to Mocking Death. Thelast line-up on the Trust rocks page is tthus icorrect, since it shuld contain Marc Piras- it is the lin-up for the following band Mocking Death. Thanks.
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Trust/33715
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Trust_Rocks/95119

Deleted Tem Oph Ab and SpeedFreak.

Thanks for the quick response to Speedfreaks. Appreciated.

Got a question on 14 Sacred Words.

Seems like some fairly average metalcore, not as metal rooted as i think the guidelines describe?

Full discography here: https://rac-forum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=35886

Their full length is also available here (and on iTunes): https://music.apple.com/gb/album/not-alone/1499668919

Should be deleted: Uniform Choice (US)
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Un ... 3540339966
(there's wrong/missing info on their page. They started off in '82 instead of '92 as is listed, and have a whole decade's worth of punk/hardcore releases in their discography. Their style became more metal for the 1992 and '93 demo releases (not enough to justify a listing on the site though, in my opinion).

Hardcore/Punk era, 1984:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKW25_F1bZg

Early '90s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP2Zi2F5C5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKF8Qj312Ms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpPVuAv3HtU

https://www.discogs.com/artist/281032-Uniform-Choice
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Choice

Should be deleted: Mirror (US)
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Mirror/3540338908
Progressive Rock
http://www.mediafire.com/file/sntwy9x19 ... 9.rar/file

Apparently the nities version of the band , led by their original drummer, but wiwth otherwise all new members, is considered a different entity as the hardcore band, at least for the purpose of the site.I have already reported the band for genre change last year and the genre was cahnged, since it ewas originally listed as power metal. So both demos were reviewd on that occasion, though I don't know, if their metalness was thoroughly examined. I 'm otherwise indifferent to the materialon the demos.You can find my report on the band's page.

Deleted Jugulur (US) - duplicate entry.

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Jo ... 3540482454 completely programmed music, no real instrument.

Yes, I was going to say the same.
https://joxeankoret.bandcamp.com/releases
"Joxean Koret's very first EP, made exclusively with software instruments. Atmospheric Black Metal."

Doesn't matter as long as it's metal.

See viewtopic.php?p=2558123#p2558123

Deleted Uniform Choice (US) - even with looking at the early '90s version of the band as a separate entity, more rock than metal.

Deleted Mirror (US) - progressive rock.

Thanks, King spooky. I have my doubts about Uniform Choice, but was hesitant to presnt them here. Regarding the sythesized guitars- YEs, is was a stong prponent of excluding such bands during my time as a moderator. It was notnowhere in the rules, as it eas the case with some toher tthings, for example, side projects were accepteable without limits back then, but when I discussed this opinion with the "old" moderators, abalbiet such didiscussion were rarare, most of us agreed, that a band to be metalhad to have at least electrified stringed instruments tobe acceptable, be it guitars, bass, electric violins or cellos. That was the deiniton of metal used back then and the site owners did not voice any objections, though I did not discuss it back then directly with them. It is the stance, which I also have in real life, since as Azmodes, currently ponted out, the band with sythesized guitars could be very well considered to beling rather to electronic music. If it has changed, I have to repect it, thoughI will again admit, that seeing such bands here makes me a bit unconfortable.

Deleted Stork (US) - not metal.

Deleted Mozart (US) - operatic rock.

I will post this report here:
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/744532

Deleted Storm (United Kingdom) - no info on a valid release to be found, and track listing of apparent release are the names of well-known cover songs.

Deleted Concrete (Poland) - core.

Deleted Sandbox (US) - alternative rock.

Deleted Cosmic Saints (Canada) - Rock.