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CHAIRTHROWER
Methed-burnt rogue babelfish

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:57 pm 
 

This schmaltzy, closing line from sweetie's Mother of Graves' review has me in stitches:

"However, all fans of the sadboi side of this genre should make a quick stop."

Never heard of "sadboi", before, but I actually googled it up and got a kick out of it (kind of like Andrew Cuomo's daughter identifying as "demisexual", in The Guardian, a few days ago)...


Last edited by CHAIRTHROWER on Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 922
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:23 pm 
 

CHAIRTHROWER wrote:
Lord! This schmaltzy, closing line from sweetie's Mother of Graves' review has me in stitches:

"However, all fans of the sadboi side of this genre should make a quick stop."

Never heard of no "sadboi", before, but I actually googled it up and got a kick out of it (kind of like Andrew Cuomo's daughter identifying as "demisexual", in The Guardian, a few days ago)...

I also found this article on the Aesthetics Wiki that has an entire page dedicated to the "Sadpeople" culture.
https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Sadpeople
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:48 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
I also found this article on the Aesthetics Wiki that has an entire page dedicated to the "Sadpeople" culture.
https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Sadpeople

I finally have a name to put to the pitiless glorification of depression, self-harm, mental illness and the imagery associated with it that is found in modern rap/hip-hop music and popular culture. Thank you.
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CHAIRTHROWER
Methed-burnt rogue babelfish

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:05 pm 
 

Do sadbois/girls/people also wave their own flag, like 1/2sexuals do?

(good article, btw!)

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... demisexual

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:31 am 
 

The Sabaton discussion from the last page just made me realize that the worst possible thing Sabaton could do is make a song or album about the American Civil War. I can only imagine how unfathomably tone deaf such a thing would be.
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Demon Fang
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 am
Posts: 195
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:52 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
The Sabaton discussion from the last page just made me realize that the worst possible thing Sabaton could do is make a song or album about the American Civil War. I can only imagine how unfathomably tone deaf such a thing would be.

I would be in full anticipation of 1914's response to that.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:56 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
The Sabaton discussion from the last page just made me realize that the worst possible thing Sabaton could do is make a song or album about the American Civil War. I can only imagine how unfathomably tone deaf such a thing would be.


They have a side project (either that or it's a bunch of ex-members, I forget which) all about the civil war called Civil War actually. Really awful music too.
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Slater922
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:20 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Subrick wrote:
The Sabaton discussion from the last page just made me realize that the worst possible thing Sabaton could do is make a song or album about the American Civil War. I can only imagine how unfathomably tone deaf such a thing would be.


They have a side project (either that or it's a bunch of ex-members, I forget which) all about the civil war called Civil War actually. Really awful music too.

Geez, you weren't kidding :ugh:

I gave one of their songs a chance, but I just can't get into it. I mean, what are even those vocals?!
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:34 pm 
 

Nils Patrik was so good in old Astral Doors and some of the Lion's Share stuff but he just doesn't fit in any of the other projects I've heard him in. It's like trying to put Lemmy in a neoclassical prog band or whatever.
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colin040
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:13 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
It's like trying to put Lemmy in a neoclassical prog band or whatever.


Hey now, that could have been interesting.

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hells_unicorn
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:18 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
It's like trying to put Lemmy in a neoclassical prog band or whatever.


Hey now, that could have been interesting.


Well, if you drop the neoclassical part and Lemmy is just playing bass, that's basically what his stint in Hawkwind was prior to Motorhead being formed. Personally I think Civil War is a solid band, I actually like them better than Sabaton primarily because of Nils' vocals, which are freaking majestic.
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Sweetie
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:50 am 
 

CHAIRTHROWER wrote:
This schmaltzy, closing line from sweetie's Mother of Graves' review has me in stitches:

"However, all fans of the sadboi side of this genre should make a quick stop."


I'm thrilled, lol.

Also, from Hells_Unicorn take on Sound Of White Noise:

"Nevertheless, there is a reason why none of the songs featured on this album or any other subsequent album with John Bush at the helm have been featured live since Anthrax's classic lineup reunited in 2005."

https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/A ... ria/285757
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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:17 pm 
 

Sweetie wrote:
CHAIRTHROWER wrote:
This schmaltzy, closing line from sweetie's Mother of Graves' review has me in stitches:

"However, all fans of the sadboi side of this genre should make a quick stop."


I'm thrilled, lol.

Also, from Hells_Unicorn take on Sound Of White Noise:

"Nevertheless, there is a reason why none of the songs featured on this album or any other subsequent album with John Bush at the helm have been featured live since Anthrax's classic lineup reunited in 2005."

https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/A ... ria/285757


Noted and updated, doesn't really refute my initial point since that's the only time a single song from said era was included, not to mention the lowest point of what was otherwise a consistently thrashing performance, I doubt many in the audience were elated at the prospect of a shitty groove metal song being included in a set with Belladonna on the mic.
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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:21 am 
 

^The Sound Of White Noise is a goddamned motherfuckin masterpiece. Great metal SONGS start to finish. One of the best albums of the 90's and light years ahead of their peers in songwriting class. All this talk about the album being influenced by grunge... so what? It doesn't sound like any grunge album I know. I happen to really like Soundgarden and AIC (both considered metal here on MA) and IF Anthrax got some influence from those great bands then good, cause Sound Of White Noise fuckin rules.

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bayern
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:11 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:41 am 
 

Hells, Hells... I'm going to send you somewhere and beyond, brother... such a merciless crucifixion of "... the White Noise"... I personally don't find it a glaring masterpiece, no, but I see little wrong with it. And I liked it even more when I listened to it the other day... true. It's by no means the biggest offender on the scene, especially considering the time when it was released, when all practitioners were rushing to modernize their sound, and not only of white noise, any which way they could. Hells, Hells...


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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:18 am 
 

Only is an amazing song. Perfect really.

Sound of White Noise is a cool album. But that's it. After that...
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Napalm_Satan
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:48 pm 
 

I used to really enjoy SOWN; it was by far my favourite Bushthrax album. I guess the latter is still the case but I don't care for it so much now. Outside of a few songs like 'Burst' or 'Only' I find the riffs and songwriting to be generic, boring and uninspired, and I really can't stand Bush's vocals on much of the album, a problem that would plague that entire era of the band's history for me.
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Sweetie
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:10 pm 
 

Metlanz: Hard agree. I honestly think all of the Bush ones are good-great save for We've Come For You All

Hells: I figured lol, I more or less just wanted to be a nit picky asshole because your review made me salty ;)
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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:23 pm 
 

Just to state for the record, my biggest gripe about Sound Of White Noise is the production, though I think some of the songs like "Only" and "Hy Pro Glo" would be crap even with a Persistence Of Time production. The whole thing sounds like it was recorded in a cardboard box, especially the drums. Some of the songwriting on the album is actually solid, and I think that Bush's vocal performance was reasonably competent within the context it was functioning in. Nothing from the John Bush era really clicked with me the way the older stuff did, it all just feels trapped in the same web of mediocrity as much of the other stuff that the Big 4 put out in the mid and late 90s.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:11 pm 
 

Sound of White Noise is a B tier album for me but Only and Room for One More are among (heh) my favorite songs from any Anthrax era. I'd be fine with never listening to the three albums between it and Worship Music ever again.
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Ilwhyan
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:04 am 
 

Slater922 wrote:
When it's not about drugs, however, the lyrics can get spiritual. Take the lyrics to "After Forever" for example, where this verse quotes:

Could it be you're afraid of what your friends might say
If they knew you believe in God above?
They should realize before they criticize
that God is the only way to love

This verse is about being open-minded about a god existing, which the band written to prove that they weren't Satanists. However, the subtlety is what makes this work extremely well, with the questions leading to multiple answers, and suggesting that it can be good or bad should there be a god or not. While the lyrics are simple on paper, their subtle tone enhances the themes, and they would be further executed by the instruments and vocals.

Giving those lyrics a little too much credit there. There's thankfully only one song with that kind of message and tone, because that's probably one of the most condescendingly preachy christian lyrics that I've come across. It seems like you're reading into some kind of complexity or subtlety that isn't there - or at least not apparent to me.
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Sweetie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:56 am 
 

I love that song and the lyrics.
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bayern
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:22 am 
 

Sweetie wrote:
I love that song and the lyrics.


This song is a blast...

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:00 am 
 

It's a great song, but yeah the lyrics are pretty much just Christian preaching. I think I used to try and find something else in there because of Sabbath's reputation as this subversive evil band. But eh there are anomalies at times.
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Sweetie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:36 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
but yeah the lyrics are pretty much just Christian preaching


I'm ok with this
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:52 am 
 

There are good lyrics about christian themes (like Callisto), and surely, the zealous doom metal preacher pronouncing your eternal damnation is a working concept too, but After Forever is neither of those. At the time, it was a clever gotcha for the christian critics of heavy metal satanism, but removed from its context, it's bafflingly shite. I find that there's maybe a tendency to profess absolute love for every detail of certain classic Sabbath albums...

I admit there are some funny lines though:
Quote:
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope

This one made me laugh the first time. It's so edgy.

Quote:
Is your mind so small that you have to fall
In with the pack wherever they run

This is just way too ironic to come from someone who's legitimately that deeply into Jesus. Right?
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Slater922
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:56 am 
 

Quote:
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope

I can't believe I missed that when I wrote the MOR review.

Still though, it was pretty cool to write it as a celebration of its 50th anniversary. Still an excellent doom metal album through and through. :thumbsup:
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:58 am 
 

Slater922 wrote:
Quote:
Would you like to see the Pope on the end of a rope

I can't believe I missed that when I wrote the MOR review.

Still though, it was pretty cool to write it as a celebration of its 50th anniversary. Still an excellent doom metal album through and through. :thumbsup:

No disagreements there!
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:08 am 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
This is just way too ironic to come from someone who's legitimately that deeply into Jesus. Right?


As someone who did NOT live in that era, I just assumed that in the days drugs, hippies, and I don't know, let's just call it "alternative spiritualism" because I don't know what else to call it, especially from the point of view of a rock musician, maybe just straight up Christianity was losing faith in the (then) younger generation? This is a question I am genuinely asking.

Also it is been stated in countless interviews and biographies that in the really early Sabbath days Geezer was into the occult (whatever that means).


********************So maybe a lot of the people he was around were really "jeering" about God and maybe Geezer decided to stop "following the pack" and find God again.******************PURE CONJECTURE ON MY PART**************

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EzraBlumenfeld
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:21 pm 
 

I've always hated those lyrics. It would be a lot easier to swallow if the music itself really stood out from the rest of the album, but it's mostly just typical Sabbath in every way with rather poor execution in my opinion.

The only legitimately religious person in my immediate family is my grandma, and I have some very bad memories of her trying to shove her Episcopalianism (honestly one of the least offensive belief systems you could have pushed onto you) down my throat when I was very young. It took me a really long time to learn to tolerate her presence at all, and for awhile metal was sort of the coping mechanism I used to sorta rebel against her strict moral code and deal with all the insecurities she caused me about how I had been raised, among other things. When I hear "After Forever" it's like I'm being given some heavy-handed Bible lesson all over again, only this time there are riffs and no tuna sandwiches.
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EzraBlumenfeld
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:52 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Nils Patrik was so good in old Astral Doors and some of the Lion's Share stuff but he just doesn't fit in any of the other projects I've heard him in. It's like trying to put Lemmy in a neoclassical prog band or whatever.


Sorry to resume this convo from a few days ago and also to double post, but a Civil War song just came up on my recommended songs and I listened and realized he's the singer from Wuthering Heights, for which he's a 100% perfect fit. The Shadow Cabinet is easily one of the 15 greatest power metal albums in my opinion, hugely due to his unique vocal style. Maybe his sound isn't for everyone, but I think it's nice to have someone with that kind of delivery once in awhile to contrast with the ultra-clean sound most power metal singers employ.
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:53 pm 
 

EzraBlumenfeld wrote:
I've always hated those lyrics. It would be a lot easier to swallow if the music itself really stood out from the rest of the album, but it's mostly just typical Sabbath in every way with rather poor execution in my opinion.

The only legitimately religious person in my immediate family is my grandma, and I have some very bad memories of her trying to shove her Episcopalianism (honestly one of the least offensive belief systems you could have pushed onto you) down my throat when I was very young. It took me a really long time to learn to tolerate her presence at all, and for awhile metal was sort of the coping mechanism I used to sorta rebel against her strict moral code and deal with all the insecurities she caused me about how I had been raised, among other things. When I hear "After Forever" it's like I'm being given some heavy-handed Bible lesson all over again, only this time there are riffs and no tuna sandwiches.


Given the context I can understand your aversion to the lyrics, but imo the music kicks ass.... I guess I can say it doesn't "stand out" from the other heavy tunes on Master of Reality, but that's only because they're all (After Forever included) 10/10. :-P Actually that's kinda a lie, they all stand out. 5 heavy tracks that are all 10/10 and they all manage to stand out from one another. I also really love Solitude but don't know if I would give it a 10/10. If it just weren't for Orchid MOR might be my favorite album of all time by itself, instead of tied with the debut and Paranoid.

EzraBlumenfeld wrote:
Sorry to resume this convo from a few days ago and also to double post, but a Civil War song just came up on my recommended songs and I listened and realized he's the singer from Wuthering Heights, for which he's a 100% perfect fit. The Shadow Cabinet is easily one of the 15 greatest power metal albums in my opinion, hugely due to his unique vocal style. Maybe his sound isn't for everyone, but I think it's nice to have someone with that kind of delivery once in awhile to contrast with the ultra-clean sound most power metal singers employ.


The Wuthering Heights album Salt is great if you haven't heard it.

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Sweetie
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:31 pm 
 

Y'all are killing me! I think Solitude is perfect and both interlude tracks are too!
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:25 pm 
 

EzraBlumenfeld wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Nils Patrik was so good in old Astral Doors and some of the Lion's Share stuff but he just doesn't fit in any of the other projects I've heard him in. It's like trying to put Lemmy in a neoclassical prog band or whatever.


Sorry to resume this convo from a few days ago and also to double post, but a Civil War song just came up on my recommended songs and I listened and realized he's the singer from Wuthering Heights, for which he's a 100% perfect fit. The Shadow Cabinet is easily one of the 15 greatest power metal albums in my opinion, hugely due to his unique vocal style. Maybe his sound isn't for everyone, but I think it's nice to have someone with that kind of delivery once in awhile to contrast with the ultra-clean sound most power metal singers employ.


I remember thinking Wuthering Heights was pretty annoying last time I heard them. Just rampantly irritating and at least partly because of his vocals. He works better on more stripped down rocking stuff for me.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:19 pm 
 

I'm not sure how After Forever "doesn't stand out" when it has that distinct synth in the opening, some of Ozzy's busiest vocal lines, and the more upbeat pacing of any song that isn't Children of the Grave. Master of Reality is the first thing that comes to mind whenever I think of a literally perfect album; the second is Sad Wings of Destiny.
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King_of_Arnor
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Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:35 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:09 pm 
 

The latest air raid on Sabaton was definitely the most overkill one yet. All that new single really seems to be is a blatant cash grab (it's a re-release of a Manowar cover they recorded in 2018 plus a mashup of three of their earlier songs, and they're selling an €30 shirt alongside it), but props to BuriedUnborn for having the patience to write that much about such an irrelevant release; it did make for an entertaining read. And honestly the more I see the band's new stuff the more I think they should have stopped after the release of Carolus Rex and losing 66% of their members, but that's another matter entirely.

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Slater922
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:18 pm 
 

I'll confess: I did got in Sabaton initially in the wake of my journey in power metal. Nowadays I'd choose 10,000 generic symphonic power/flower metal bands before I choose Sabaton. Heroes is still a great album though.
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bayern
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:21 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I'm not sure how After Forever "doesn't stand out" when it has that distinct synth in the opening, some of Ozzy's busiest vocal lines, and the more upbeat pacing of any song that isn't Children of the Grave. Master of Reality is the first thing that comes to mind whenever I think of a literally perfect album; the second is Sad Wings of Destiny.


Absolutely; the first genuine 100 in metal history...

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MetlaNZ
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:29 pm 
 

bayern wrote:
Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I'm not sure how After Forever "doesn't stand out" when it has that distinct synth in the opening, some of Ozzy's busiest vocal lines, and the more upbeat pacing of any song that isn't Children of the Grave. Master of Reality is the first thing that comes to mind whenever I think of a literally perfect album; the second is Sad Wings of Destiny.


Absolutely; the first genuine 100 in metal history...

TheHumanChair would disagree

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 922
PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:53 pm 
 

MetlaNZ wrote:
bayern wrote:
Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I'm not sure how After Forever "doesn't stand out" when it has that distinct synth in the opening, some of Ozzy's busiest vocal lines, and the more upbeat pacing of any song that isn't Children of the Grave. Master of Reality is the first thing that comes to mind whenever I think of a literally perfect album; the second is Sad Wings of Destiny.


Absolutely; the first genuine 100 in metal history...

TheHumanChair would disagree

As well as Luvers
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