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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:04 am 
 

I don't spend time typing up paragraphs for them to be deleted from the site's viewer base. Bastardhead retroactively took down my review of "Symbolic" by Death because I agreed with a third party media outlet that described the band as progressive thrash metal. I made it very clear that I agree with that description and expressed my opinions on the album clearly, maturely and thoroughly. If Metal-Archives is not a marketplace of ideas and freedom of speech, I will take myself elsewhere where I will not be outright censored. I don't want to have to do that as I enjoy writing reviews for the site. I also think that this moderator should be reprimanded for his actions against me. He has literally censored my review because he personally disagrees with my analysis. That's not how this works, we discuss music, music is subjective. What I consider to be "death metal" may not be what you consider to be "death metal". If this community is that rigid, I will no longer wish to be apart of it.

BastardHead's reasoning for why my review was censored:
"I hate to toss something retroactively, but this entire review is based on a flagrant factual inaccuracy. Death's later era is not thrash. No, it's not, not by any stretch of the imagination. You could argue that for Scream Bloody Gore or something but calling Symbolic a thrash album is just categorically incorrect. What's even more confusing is that you correctly describe the music as prog in some form, with the band evolving away from regular death metal and incorporating new ideas and structures, and yet somehow consistently refer to it as a blatant misnomer. It's like accurately describing a Darkthrone album full of blast beats and tremolo riffs but calling it doom metal the whole time. It really feels like you're stuck on calling it the wrong thing because some third party youtube video got it wrong first, and it really doesn't seem like any sort of satirical framing device, so I'm left with no assumptions beyond you just taking it at face value and trying to cram a square peg into a round hole with your description. The rules state that we ask for accurate musical description, and that includes something as basic as getting the genre right. There's always wiggle room for interpretation or hot takes within reason, sure, but the argument here is horribly thin and not even argued in the first place. It's just a decent review based on a flagrant falsehood, and that's not acceptable. You can do better than that."

Thank you,
Superchard

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9748
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:09 am 
 

Man you're not being censored. The review was sent back for a flagrant falsehood. All reviews are sent back for that. You can always edit/rewrite it to remove the wrong bits.

Or you can do a big performance about leaving because I'm a meanie for wanting info to stay accurate.

This isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departure.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 27890
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:11 am 
 

I don't think most of us are going to try to stop you from leaving.
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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:11 am 
 

I will not edit or rewrite because you disagree with me. I stand by what I wrote 100%. You are by the very definition of the word censoring me, and I believe your moderator privileges should be revoked.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9748
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:17 am 
 

I disagree with people who insist on calling The Black Dahlia Murder metalcore but won't reject reviews that call them as such, because even though it's wrong, there are segments of metalcore that are very closely entwined with melodeath (which they do play) and they were part of the metalcore scene for years regardless due to aesthetics and general proximity. That's the sort of thing I mean when I say there's wiggle room.

You getting something extra wrong and doubling down on it when criticized is not that. Everybody's wrong sometimes, this time it was you. So uh... learn from it or grow up I guess?
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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:22 am 
 

Well, that's awfully paradoxical. You seem to have gotten offended about some paragraphs I wrote, and then took the liberty upon yourself to make my review invisible to the community, and then proceed to say that I'm the one that needs to grow up? It seems to me that you cannot stomach my criticism. I'm really not about to play this game with you. My ultimatum stands. I don't believe I write solid gold, but you have overstepped your bounds and are now attempting to double down and justify it when it is clear for all to see that you have a vendetta against people you disagree with.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9748
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:33 am 
 

I've actually defended you more than once when the community pushes back against your reviews but go off I guess.

You can learn and grow from critique (which you could have done beforehand since this review was discussed long before I pulled the trigger (based on an actual rule we have btw) but you don't read the forums so you had no idea that everybody was calling you wrong I guess) or you can take your ball and go home. I don't care either way.
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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:34 am 
 

Also, I am not doubling down after criticism, I am doubling down after you essentially telling me that I need to change my review to more closely reflect your opinion and not my own. I hope that's not the cross you want to die on there, Stalin.

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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:37 am 
 

BastardHead, I know you're lying about that because my reviews are auto-accepted without moderator approval. Not only are you a communist, you're a liar.

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 10268
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:39 am 
 

Superchard wrote:
I will not edit or rewrite because you disagree with me. I stand by what I wrote 100%. You are by the very definition of the word censoring me, and I believe your moderator privileges should be revoked.

Crooked Bastard Head already got his "worse than the PMRC" custum title for his fake news witch hunt against the noble genre of NSBM, now he's trying to prevent THE TRUTH about 90s Death from coming out, it's evil Stalinist state terrorism and the silent majority needs to rise up, be united and make Metal Archives great again.
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9748
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:41 am 
 

Superchard wrote:
BastardHead, I know you're lying about that because my reviews are auto-accepted without moderator approval. Not only are you a communist, you're a liar.


You were scribed because your reviews are consistently acceptable on a technical level and that's basically all we care about. Part of that technical level is factual accuracy, which you dropped the ball on this time. Believe me, a lot of users here think you're an idiot and that has nothing to do with your reviews being auto-accepted, comrade.
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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:46 am 
 

Once again, when referring to music, there is ot such thing as factual accuracy in regards to genre. Some people will say Cowboys from Hell is thrash and not groove metal. More power to them, but I'd rather see where they're coming from than shut them down. We are discussing that which is subjective, not objective. The fact that you are either incapable or unwilling to understand that weighs heavily on the argument that you are an idiot, not I.


Last edited by ~Guest 266611 on Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9978
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:49 am 
 

Superchard wrote:
Not only are you a communist, you're a liar.

Oh fuck. You sure got him good, comrade bro

Spoiler: show
How do you morons function on a daily basis? Serious question
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9748
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:53 am 
 

Superchard wrote:
Once again, when referring to music, there is not such thing as factual accuracy. We are discussing that which is subjective, not objective.


ABBA is death metal and you literally can not refute this.
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5670
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:54 am 
 

Keep in mind that scribe status is a privilege, and as a privilege can be taken away. You were given that status because we trust that you would follow and abide by our rules and guidelines. It does not mean, however, that we cannot and should not reassess reviews submitted by scribes simply because they have that status. If it comes to our attention that a scribe's review needs to be looked at, as it was in this case, then we have the right and duty to take a look at it and see if it was actually acceptable. Unfortunately, in this case, we judged it as not acceptable. And yes, "we". BastardHead reached out to a few of us on this, and we agreed that your review had some issues with accuracy.

When it comes to judging a review for accuracy, we do not take that job lightly. In fact, if we can avoid having to make any judgments on the nature of a reviewer's opinions, we tend to refrain from doing so. That said, our rules and guidelines make it pretty clear that we will ask reviewers to correct very obvious factual errors. Yes, you could argue that it's your opinion that, say, Iron Maiden are black metal and that there's no such thing as objectivity in reviews, and sure, that's true. It's your opinion, and there really is no true objectivity in music. But we also make it clear that we want reviewers to accurately describe the music, and at a bare minimum we expect some good faith understanding there from the reviewer that they don't go off the rocker with wildly, crazy positions on the music of the album. Some folks might argue that we are too lenient here, and allow all sorts of wild opinions, but there is a limit to that. And in all honesty, asking for you to politely reconsider the way you described this album's music is hardly a crime worth a public tantrum like this.

I don't want you to quit being a reviewer here because of this, and I have no plans to remove your scribe status. But what BastardHead asked you to do is perfectly reasonable, and calling him names or making accusations about him while getting in an uproar about it is hardly a fair response.
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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:57 am 
 

You and I both know how preposterous that example is and how genre can be unclear when we're specifically talking about metal. Seriously? They let you moderate for this site? This is a sad joke.

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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:00 pm 
 

I haven't called Bastardhead anything, it wasn't until he called me an idiot did I do so in return. You want me to call you an idiot too? Because I'm done being diplomatic with you people.

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5670
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:02 pm 
 

Is this really how you want this to go? Ragequit with a tantrum that leaves the rest of the user base seeing you as an example of what not to do?
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~Guest 266611
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:26 am
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:05 pm 
 

Yes, that is how I want this to go, because for all of the people here on this community providing you and your fellow moderators with confirmation bias feedback, there's a far larger group of people that see this community for what it is and actually agree with me that you don't see here on the site. Here's an idea, not everyone agrees with you. Maybe you shouldn't throw a tantrum and censor them.


Last edited by ~Guest 266611 on Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5670
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:06 pm 
 

All they're gonna see is an immature meltdown, buddy.
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9748
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:07 pm 
 

Superchard wrote:
Maybe you shouldn't throw a tantrum


fuckin' lol
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5670
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:09 pm 
 

In any case, I think we're done here.

Superchard, you can either fix your review and resubmit it, or don't, or quit. Up to you. But continuing to whine about it isn't gonna do you any good.
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