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Jophelerx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm
Posts: 1460
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:49 am 
 

Yeah okay, I guess it does come off as more technical than I realized. I might try to reword it a bit. I like to go into the background of a genre sometimes, but I guess not everyone is an uber USPM nerd like me. >_>
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CHAIRTHROWER
Methed-burnt rogue babelfish

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
Posts: 1026
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:51 pm 
 

Perhaps not yet, but would like to be!

Derigin's Jeff Metal review is a doozy, by the way...

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 7599
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:59 am 
 

Heh, I knew that new Reign in Blood review would be shit once the writer started to point out that:

Quote:
1. This is not a hallmark of pure sonic brutality, or at least, it is nowhere near as influential purely in that sense as you might think. Of the notable aggressive albums that already existed prior to the time of this album's release, Seven Churches is far more chaotic, Bathory's first two have a bigger emphasis on the expression of absolute black metal filth, and Slayer's very own Hell Awaits (I'm also including the EP Haunting The Chapel for similarities) broke new ground in adding a degree of sophistication to such violent expressions while being a far more influential album in directly inspiring others to follow in its footsteps.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:27 am 
 

People like this don't seem to understand how influence actually works, do they?
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Felix 1666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:56 am 
 

The review is correct. "Reign in Blood" was definitely not influential. That's why everybody knows and reviews this album. But no influence at all! Guess it's just still in our mind because of its absolute weakness

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Metantoine
Slave to Santa

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 12030
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:46 am 
 

"Hello, I'm 19 and I'll explain why Slayer aren't influential"

I'd trade my unborn kids to not have to read the opinion of another teenager about Reign In Blood. Fucking christ. This is what happens when you don't understand how musical influence worked back in the day and think of it in a modern way. It was much harder to get into more obscure stuff in 1986, not everyone were discovering Bathory and Possessed two days after discovering Megadeth and they couldn't get the entire Venom discography from Soulseek in 1 hour.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:48 am 
 

Again - how many more reviews going off about how "overrated" RIB is do we need?

I've thought about doing a 100% one but there's no point, everything I'd say would've been said by caspian, Acrobat, others.

But people really have to do this every three months and write another review taking down (and misunderstanding) this album. At least this one is a good score and doesn't totally shit all over it - it's just another review I'm not sure was needed. But people will review what they want I guess.
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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
Posts: 161
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:11 pm 
 

I realize I may have worded the beginning rather strongly and awkwardly, but have any of you actually read the stuff past that paragraph? If I hated that album, I would have just written a copycat "only two good songs" review and deleted it after a couple of weeks. The influence comments are more about how the brutality of this album was not something that just HAPPENED, it had stepping stones to go off of, and so did a bunch of other things in parallel to it.

In all honesty, it's an album that I still... it's hard to explain, but I can't treat this like a normal album. I can't enjoy this in the same way I would enjoy something like Overkill or Kreator or Vio-lence or basically any other normal thrash. It's so balls to the wall and unrepentant in HOW it works that it literally inspired this entire philosophical debate on what the fuck its real merits even ARE. I can think of a whole lot of albums that SOUND like this, but none that FEEL like this. Its sonic bits have already been dissected so much that I had to go into the ideological stuff.

As I said, I do like it, I just like it for... very different reasons than a lot of you do. I'm weird like that, I dunno. Just saying, if all the songs on it were like "Criminally Insane" just completely disregarding all that is sacred in our normal perception of music, I would've given it 146462342435% just on principle.

I know, there was always the option of not writing it in the first place, but... dammit, I'm weird. I kind of expected this. I'm not rewriting or taking down any part of it, but I guess I should take it as a lesson that even slight comments about the influence of these god-tier historical significance albums is gonna piss people off. Oh well. "ENTER TO THE REALM OF SATAN!"
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Felix 1666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 121
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:36 pm 
 

We're not pissed off. We just think (or maybe know) that you are wrong concerning its influence on the scene back in 1986 and afterwards.

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robotniq
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:08 am
Posts: 372
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:32 pm 
 

I agree to an extent, RiB isn't really a 'thrash' album in the normal sense. It doesn't have those chugga-chugga-chugga right-hand bits that Anthrax, Metallica and Overkill had.
The riffs are more fluid and difficult to pin-down.

But of course, this was exactly why RiB is such an important/influential album. That 'athletic extremity' cannot be found in "Seven Churches", "Bathory" or even "Hell Awaits".
You can find a bit of it in "Dealing With It!", but not with the same precision or fluidity.

The combination of athleticism, fluidity, precision, and atmosphere is the key. Add two or three all time classic songs and you have a masterpiece.

This was the direction extreme metal took.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:46 pm 
 

Gas_Snake wrote:
I realize I may have worded the beginning rather strongly and awkwardly, but have any of you actually read the stuff past that paragraph? If I hated that album, I would have just written a copycat "only two good songs" review and deleted it after a couple of weeks. The influence comments are more about how the brutality of this album was not something that just HAPPENED, it had stepping stones to go off of, and so did a bunch of other things in parallel to it.

In all honesty, it's an album that I still... it's hard to explain, but I can't treat this like a normal album. I can't enjoy this in the same way I would enjoy something like Overkill or Kreator or Vio-lence or basically any other normal thrash. It's so balls to the wall and unrepentant in HOW it works that it literally inspired this entire philosophical debate on what the fuck its real merits even ARE. I can think of a whole lot of albums that SOUND like this, but none that FEEL like this. Its sonic bits have already been dissected so much that I had to go into the ideological stuff.

As I said, I do like it, I just like it for... very different reasons than a lot of you do. I'm weird like that, I dunno. Just saying, if all the songs on it were like "Criminally Insane" just completely disregarding all that is sacred in our normal perception of music, I would've given it 146462342435% just on principle.

I know, there was always the option of not writing it in the first place, but... dammit, I'm weird. I kind of expected this. I'm not rewriting or taking down any part of it, but I guess I should take it as a lesson that even slight comments about the influence of these god-tier historical significance albums is gonna piss people off. Oh well. "ENTER TO THE REALM OF SATAN!"


No big deal at the end of the day man... it's just an over-long and wordy review and I'm not sure it really gets to the heart of how I'd talk about the album myself, so it was just a personal disagreement. And shit happens and young people will write reviews about classic albums all the time even though it takes a long time to really understand historical shit like that and sometimes it's difficult to assess it at all if you weren't there at the time - it's why I personally don't do a lot of reviews like that anymore. I just think it's silly overall how many RIB reviews we still get now. I'm not sure we need any more.

I feel like there is a tendency for young metalheads to write these reviews of big classic albums as a rite of passage of sorts. Acting like it's some kind of scholarly thing and trying to explain everything as if it's never been said. I did it myself several times probably. But I probably didn't know jack shit.
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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
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Location: Russia
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:26 pm 
 

I'm more perplexed by the fact that I honestly tried to describe a bunch of other things about it and why it is perceived the way that it is, what really makes it stand out from every other thrash album to ever exist, and yet that influence paragraph was literally the first and only thing you latched on to. It's like the other ten or so paragraphs that I wrote don't even exist. I know that it's overlong and wordy: the main point is something that people generally don't talk about, so I had to take my sweet time setting it up and explaining it in a way that vaguely makes sense. But you all saw that paragraph and went all JonTron "NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPESOOOOMUCHNOPE" like you have a built-in gag reflex for that shit. That's what I get, I suppose.
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~Guest 334273
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:39 am 
 

You did the metal equivalent of starting a scientific conference with "Guys, the earth is factually flat!" and then you wonder why people are not willing to go further?

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caspian
Old Man Yells at Car Park

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:30 am 
 

Looking through RiB reviews was a mistake.

Quote:
Classic Album? Kinda a stretch. - 75%


good lord.
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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
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Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:27 am 
 

I suppose I worded it improperly. Then again, I... guess I was trying to say that I don't find it as much of a step forward as is commonly said. I listen to THOSE albums and the tools were already there, Slayer just used them in a way that no one else did.

I'd equate the "flat earth" metaphor to something like... I dunno, calling Iron Maiden death metal. Like I said, I'm weird like that.

Alright, fuck it. Imagine that review if I simply removed that one paragraph. How would it go then? Would I still be an ignorant shitfuck who has zero idea what he's saying? That one paragraph seems to be your one and only fixation in the whole review. Not a single one of you mentioned literally any other points I was trying to make.

Edit: Metal is NOT a scientific conference, nor can it ever be metaphorized as one. I know that you've been hearing and loving it for 35 years and counting, but dammit, why make overblown metaphors NOW when you're trying to explain rationally how much my ONE PARAGRAPH sucks. If I'm not a troll, you're shoving a metaphor into my screen with nothing to back it up. If I AM a troll, you're giving me food. Either way the discussion does not progress. I would very much like to know just what I'm missing, since it ticks you off enough to ignore the rest of the review entirely.
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Metantoine
Slave to Santa

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:56 am 
 

Stop saying you're weird when people say that you're wrong about its influence. Of course, people aren't discuss the other parts where you say things the other 43 RIB reviews did. When reviewing the most reviewed album on the site (after the classic Penis Metal), ask yourself if your review is fresh (yung boi slater also had a brain aneurysm as caspian pointed out), necessary and not only for attention.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:01 am 
 

Gas_Snake wrote:
I'm more perplexed by the fact that I honestly tried to describe a bunch of other things about it and why it is perceived the way that it is, what really makes it stand out from every other thrash album to ever exist, and yet that influence paragraph was literally the first and only thing you latched on to. It's like the other ten or so paragraphs that I wrote don't even exist. I know that it's overlong and wordy: the main point is something that people generally don't talk about, so I had to take my sweet time setting it up and explaining it in a way that vaguely makes sense. But you all saw that paragraph and went all JonTron "NOPENOPENOPENOPENOPESOOOOMUCHNOPE" like you have a built-in gag reflex for that shit. That's what I get, I suppose.


I did go and read it after seeing this and like I said, the main issue is just that it's an overly long review that doesn't really add much new. I get that young reviewers want to do those big album reviews but just saying.
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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
Posts: 161
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:31 am 
 

Clearly, discussing this topic any further is futile. I will not pry further. Perhaps I should try my hand at "writing into the desk drawer", so to speak.

Should I zap it? I don't know why I'm asking the other users about this, but whatever.
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TheBurningOfSodom wrote:
... stop laying the blame on me alone, as next time I see you calling out my name in public just to vent your frustration, as if I were some sort of second coming of Stalin, I might stop being so polite and I might even tell you where to put your Philosophy degree.

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~Guest 334273
Veteran

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:08 pm 
 

There isn't much to discuss... you tried to take on and over-reviewed album of utmost importance for the genre without having the proper experience and the knowledge to offer something interesting or even enjoyable to the reader (the review itself it's clunky and hard to read) and in the process made some missteps that are being ridiculed by people that know about metal music way more than you do, and seeing your age this is kinda normal.

It's not really the end of the world, if you keep going in few years you'll probably want to look back into it. If you are really interested to see the impact of that album at the time google out the early interviews of the first death and black metal bands, you'll see how much it was a game changer in the eyes of other game changers :)

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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
Posts: 161
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:23 pm 
 

Most meaningful and helpful thing I've read regarding my review. Thank you. Deleted for now, will probably wipe it for good after a couple of months.

EDIT: Cleaned up some things, resubmitted. Offending part is gone, shortened some others where possible. Dammit, I'm not wiping this.
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TheBurningOfSodom wrote:
... stop laying the blame on me alone, as next time I see you calling out my name in public just to vent your frustration, as if I were some sort of second coming of Stalin, I might stop being so polite and I might even tell you where to put your Philosophy degree.


Last edited by Gas_Snake on Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheBurningOfSodom
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:28 am
Posts: 595
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:30 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
When reviewing the most reviewed album on the site (after the classic Penis Metal)...

That should be the rite of passage for every new user.

Metantoine wrote:
(yung boi slater also had a brain aneurysm as caspian pointed out)

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:24 pm 
 

Alright, I'll do that one next! Maybe! Possibly! I'm not sure what to make of it aside from cock jokes, but I think I'll figure something out!
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Gas_Snake
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:07 am
Posts: 161
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:33 am 
 

Oh, I got another 5 points for redoing it. I'm not sure if this is a standard thing to do, but okay then.
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Sweetie
Metalhead

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Posts: 1091
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 1:36 pm 
 

The thing with Reign In Blood is that nobody seems to know how to say it isn't their favorite one without also slamming it or acting like it isn't influential. Like, I fucking love it, and it's crazy influential. But I also prefer Show Now Mercy, South Of Heaven, and Seasons In The Abyss.
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:54 pm 
 

Gas_Snake wrote:
Oh, I got another 5 points for redoing it. I'm not sure if this is a standard thing to do, but okay then.


This can only happen if you fully delete your previous review instead of just reverting it to a draft, which you should never do unless you're completely rewriting from scratch. Likely the mod who accepted it was unaware of the discussion in here. In the future, if you're gonna edit, revert to a draft instead. This retains your original publishing date and prevents errant points from going out.

All told five points isn't really a big deal so don't worry about it, but keep it in mind.
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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 8:00 pm 
 

Sweetie wrote:
The thing with Reign In Blood is that nobody seems to know how to say it isn't their favorite one without also slamming it or acting like it isn't influential. Like, I fucking love it, and it's crazy influential.

I agree with your comment, and I'm trying to think how I'd criticize it, but I will say that I find I am most critical of the albums/bands I love the most (i.e. I can tear apart a record and still give it a 95%). I think it's because when you see the full potential of a band, every moment that doesn't realize that potential can be frustrating, whereas the average run of the mill record was never really going to be that good to begin with.

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Sweetie
Metalhead

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:22 pm 
 

Couldn't have said it better myself, dude. It works when I like the popular thing more than the unpopular thing. Like, Among The Living is easily my favorite Anthrax record. I also love State Of Euphoria, but that potential (in my opinion) was never reached the same way. It's no different than with Slayer albums, except I prefer the ***less*** popular one; Show No Mercy > Reign In Blood
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Demon Fang
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 am
Posts: 534
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:34 am 
 

>TheHumanChair covering Stratovarius
This might actually get interesting.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:31 pm 
 

Reminds me that I've been meaning to do one of my discography runs for Stratovarius sometime. Might be some nice companion reading.
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meshigene
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:37 pm 
 

Alina Zia's bio and first and so far only review make Chair's writing look like an English 101 text. I think they'd probably be a pretty good match.
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OzzyApu
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:00 pm 
 

meshigene wrote:
Alina Zia's bio and first and so far only review make Chair's writing look like an English 101 text. I think they'd probably be a pretty good match.

Holy shit, that bio can't be written by a human.

https://www.metal-archives.com/users/Alina%20Zia
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~Guest 334273
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:11 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
meshigene wrote:
Alina Zia's bio and first and so far only review make Chair's writing look like an English 101 text. I think they'd probably be a pretty good match.

Holy shit, that bio can't be written by a human.

https://www.metal-archives.com/users/Alina%20Zia


Looks like the average late Jute Gyte fan to me :lol:

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King_of_Arnor
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:17 pm 
 

Congratulations Alina, you know how to use a thesaurus!
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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:19 am 
 

Perhaps she's the lyricist for Grieving Age?
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TheBurningOfSodom
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:28 am
Posts: 595
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:03 am 
 

MikeyC wrote:
Perhaps she's the lyricist for Grieving Age?

Wow, wasn't familiar with those guys, but a 1% average for 6 reviews is Thrash or Die-worthy material. Their "nine 0%s in a row" run is still unparalleled, though :lol:

OzzyApu wrote:
Holy shit, that bio can't be written by a human.

https://www.metal-archives.com/users/Alina%20Zia

I gave up on it after half a paragraph. It was a continuum of: 'hey, that can't be a real word' *proceeds to google it* 'oh, for fuck's sake'.
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:11 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
meshigene wrote:
Alina Zia's bio and first and so far only review make Chair's writing look like an English 101 text. I think they'd probably be a pretty good match.

Holy shit, that bio can't be written by a human.

https://www.metal-archives.com/users/Alina%20Zia


I'm on my phone right now so when I clicked that link I just saw this giant deluge iof incomprehensible gibberish in dinky text to the point that I literally thought it was just lorem ipsum dolor sit amet
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:28 am 
 

Morn Of Solace wrote:
OzzyApu wrote:
meshigene wrote:
Alina Zia's bio and first and so far only review make Chair's writing look like an English 101 text. I think they'd probably be a pretty good match.

Holy shit, that bio can't be written by a human.

https://www.metal-archives.com/users/Alina%20Zia


Looks like the average late Jute Gyte fan to me :lol:


I love the insanity of putting all that on a goddamn metal forum profile. The world is such a bizarre place.
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Slater922
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:23 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
meshigene wrote:
Alina Zia's bio and first and so far only review make Chair's writing look like an English 101 text. I think they'd probably be a pretty good match.

Holy shit, that bio can't be written by a human.

https://www.metal-archives.com/users/Alina%20Zia

I didn't even bother reading half of the first paragraph :ugh:

Somebody please teach Alina how to simplify her biography.
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hells_unicorn
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Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:17 pm 
 

Slater922 wrote:
OzzyApu wrote:
I didn't even bother reading half of the first paragraph :ugh:

Somebody please teach Alina how to simplify her biography.


My takeaway was something along the lines of "Nihilism is almighty, nihilism is self-evident, so don't bother questioning it". The English language is a fun thing and I do enjoy playing around with big words myself, but there is a point where competency turns into shameless self-indulgence, and I think Alina has achieved that to the nth degree.
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Liquid_Braino
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:06 pm 
 

My wife is Pakistani, an English professor and knows her metal.
I showed her that review by a potential soulmate and never heard someone laugh so hard while reading out loud "farraginous gallimaufry".

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