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DemonFeces
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:41 am
Posts: 29
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:07 pm 
 

Thrash is like a gateway drug. You hear it and then you want more extreme sounds. At least that's how i view it. Therefore I generally avoid reading high-scored thrash reviews. I look for the low-scored ones...unless they're as long as Woolie_Wool's. Then I still avoid. :-D

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:10 pm 
 

What I find most fascinating about that Destruction review is that I read it out loud in a complete monotone and nothing whatsoever sounded off about that. That's what the review is; a big, blank piece of nothing.
DemonFeces wrote:
Thrash is like a gateway drug. You hear it and then you want more extreme sounds. At least that's how i view it. Therefore I generally avoid reading high-scored thrash reviews. I look for the low-scored ones...unless they're as long as Woolie_Wool's. Then I still avoid. :-D

So one of the most important sub-genres of metal is just gateway music? Really?
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DemonFeces
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:41 am
Posts: 29
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:25 pm 
 

Yes. However few seem to be able to step through the threshold. These most recent of posts are arguing the same points from 30 years ago. Who's better: Hetfield or Mustaine? Who cares anymore? It's clear all these bands [with or without original members] are decaying at a rate much faster than any other carbon-based lifeform. If they're not merely ghostly reflections of themselves already. They're all going to start dropping like flies.

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BastardHead
Worse than the PMRC

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 8962
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:52 pm 
 

I just can not bring myself to read that Master of Puppets review. It's like 3000+ words and in the first two paragraphs it namedrops so many immediate turnoffs of mine (calling something "overrated", namedropping completely disconnected bands as superior examples of certain elements, downplaying Metallica's undeniable importance in the expansion of heavy metal as a whole, crediting Dave Mustaine for all the good parts of early Metallica like it's some sort of knee-jerk defense out of denial for liking something uncool, etc). I get not liking Metallica/MoP, they're really not extreme in any particular direction so they have a wide appeal for everybody except those who value some sort of objective superlative, but a gargantuan track-by-track review that ultimately just parrots a bunch of shit revisionists have been spouting for years sounds like my personal hell.
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TrooperEd
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:18 pm
Posts: 1970
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:07 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
I just can not bring myself to read that Master of Puppets review. It's like 3000+ words and in the first two paragraphs it namedrops so many immediate turnoffs of mine (calling something "overrated", namedropping completely disconnected bands as superior examples of certain elements, downplaying Metallica's undeniable importance in the expansion of heavy metal as a whole, crediting Dave Mustaine for all the good parts of early Metallica like it's some sort of knee-jerk defense out of denial for liking something uncool, etc). I get not liking Metallica/MoP, they're really not extreme in any particular direction so they have a wide appeal for everybody except those who value some sort of objective superlative, but a gargantuan track-by-track review that ultimately just parrots a bunch of shit revisionists have been spouting for years sounds like my personal hell.



Even if Motorhead is one of those examples?

The thing is, I consider the "namedropping" important, because Master of Puppets is a triple threat, but not necessarily the good ways. It's called not only the greatest metal album of 1986, not only the greatest thrash album of all time, but the greatest metal album of all time. Those first and last bit are reasonable talking points, but when you look at what thrash is supposed to be and then look at what is offered on Puppets, its just not true. Part of the problem is that it seems Master of Puppets has been religiously beaten into the head of the metal consciousness to the point of it being genetic nowadays, and there never seemed to be any real questioning of that stature without thousands of Lars Ulrich faggots going "you're still mad that they wrote Fade To Black. (Something Lars parrots so much whenever the band does something stupid that I think these days he's lying about it)." It's Metallica, its the anti-glam metal, they're American, just shut up and accept it. Never mind the discussion that Ride The Lightning or even and Justice For All could be better, its Master of Puppets that's the greatest and shut up. I actually remember when That Metal Show was doing a top 5 list of thrash albums and when MoP was suggested Don Jameson said it shouldn't be there because it wasn't a thrash album in his opinion. It was honestly kind of refreshing, as was Boris's review.

Which isn't to say I agree with every word of that review. I still can't figure out for the life of me how he figured out groove metal came from The Thing That Should Not Be, I love every second of Leper Messiah, and I don't think anybody considered Damageplan at the forefront of metal in 2004.

Xlxlx wrote:
So one of the most important sub-genres of metal is just gateway music? Really?


No one made any downgrade to "just gateway music." Second of all, I'd rather Metallica and thrash be the gateway for metal than glam metal, rap metal, Avenged Sevenfold and all these other awful modern rock bands floating around these days.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 7834
Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:07 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
I just can not bring myself to read that Master of Puppets review. It's like 3000+ words and in the first two paragraphs it namedrops so many immediate turnoffs of mine (calling something "overrated", namedropping completely disconnected bands as superior examples of certain elements, downplaying Metallica's undeniable importance in the expansion of heavy metal as a whole, crediting Dave Mustaine for all the good parts of early Metallica like it's some sort of knee-jerk defense out of denial for liking something uncool, etc). I get not liking Metallica/MoP, they're really not extreme in any particular direction so they have a wide appeal for everybody except those who value some sort of objective superlative, but a gargantuan track-by-track review that ultimately just parrots a bunch of shit revisionists have been spouting for years sounds like my personal hell.

Hey man, I actually like Master of Puppets a whole lot. Not my favourite Metallica album (it comes after Justice and RtL for me), but it'd get a super solid 80% score from me, and I acknowledge its historical importance. However, what Woolie adresses is mainly the over-inflated press it received from sources outside the scene, which indeed acted like thrash didn't exist before MoP, or at least that's what I gathered from many articles I read from the era.

The review is super venomous and spiteful, but it's not wrong about saying how metal was already playing rather sophisticated and complex stuff before MoP came along. The bands mentioned might not sound like Metallica, but I understand why they're brought up. Sure, the album blew my mind when I first heard it as a 13 year old who had no idea 8 minute long songs full of screaming guitars and yelling about drugs existed, but with some more years listening to metal now beside me, I can recognize that it's not exactly the supremely smart, flawless classic many sources sell it as. For me, MoP is kind of like an old friend I know deeply well; warts and all, I love him, no matter what others say about him.

With that said, I recognize that those less than positive traits my friend has might give other people very bad impressions, or even inspire outright dislike. I can see where Wools is coming from, even if I don't agree at all. He can't ignore those perceived flaws that are so easy to overlook in my case, and so he reacts... differently to the record.
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CHAIRTHROWER
Chairleader

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:06 am 
 

Dug Exalter's Stalker review; it steered me towards their Shocked to Death crewtube video, a most compelling and lasciviously chthonic affair...

In his words:
Shocked To Death" offered by Stälker as their debut video to showcase Shadow Of The Sword a visual exhibition that depicts the exact experience of 80's heavy-music videos with horrific sequences of pentagrams, a nun who come to naught and the band Stälker displaying their sacrifice and devotion to the music with their ut-most power and relentless speed.

No doubt!

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Psyche_Dome
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:31 am
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 am 
 

TrooperEd wrote:
Even if Motorhead is one of those examples?

The thing is, I consider the "namedropping" important, because Master of Puppets is a triple threat, but not necessarily the good ways. It's called not only the greatest metal album of 1986, not only the greatest thrash album of all time, but the greatest metal album of all time. Those first and last bit are reasonable talking points, but when you look at what thrash is supposed to be and then look at what is offered on Puppets, its just not true. Part of the problem is that it seems Master of Puppets has been religiously beaten into the head of the metal consciousness to the point of it being genetic nowadays, and there never seemed to be any real questioning of that stature without thousands of Lars Ulrich faggots going "you're still mad that they wrote Fade To Black. (Something Lars parrots so much whenever the band does something stupid that I think these days he's lying about it)." It's Metallica, its the anti-glam metal, they're American, just shut up and accept it. Never mind the discussion that Ride The Lightning or even and Justice For All could be better, its Master of Puppets that's the greatest and shut up. I actually remember when That Metal Show was doing a top 5 list of thrash albums and when MoP was suggested Don Jameson said it shouldn't be there because it wasn't a thrash album in his opinion. It was honestly kind of refreshing, as was Boris's review.


So, the real problem stems from the likes of Mick Wall and other music journalists who over hype this album, along with a bunch of non metal fans who listened to anything but metal, apart from the one or two Metallica albums they know. The insipid fan who will cite MoP for being inducted into some institution, which is frankly, so anti-metal! Those only shout to the roof top that Metallica are the best because they sell more records; that's like saying that Transformers: the last knight, is better than Blade Runner 2049, because it was a box office smash and BR2049 wasn't. The Last Knight and the Transformer's movies are garbage, and it's the same diluted Metallica fan base who goes to see Transformers. That's the real problem–not MoP. MoP is just a weaker clone of RTL which got and gets over hyped by the Transformer crowd.

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Psyche_Dome
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:31 am
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 am 
 

TrooperEd wrote:
Even if Motorhead is one of those examples?

The thing is, I consider the "namedropping" important, because Master of Puppets is a triple threat, but not necessarily the good ways. It's called not only the greatest metal album of 1986, not only the greatest thrash album of all time, but the greatest metal album of all time. Those first and last bit are reasonable talking points, but when you look at what thrash is supposed to be and then look at what is offered on Puppets, its just not true. Part of the problem is that it seems Master of Puppets has been religiously beaten into the head of the metal consciousness to the point of it being genetic nowadays, and there never seemed to be any real questioning of that stature without thousands of Lars Ulrich faggots going "you're still mad that they wrote Fade To Black. (Something Lars parrots so much whenever the band does something stupid that I think these days he's lying about it)." It's Metallica, its the anti-glam metal, they're American, just shut up and accept it. Never mind the discussion that Ride The Lightning or even and Justice For All could be better, its Master of Puppets that's the greatest and shut up. I actually remember when That Metal Show was doing a top 5 list of thrash albums and when MoP was suggested Don Jameson said it shouldn't be there because it wasn't a thrash album in his opinion. It was honestly kind of refreshing, as was Boris's review.


So, the real problem stems from the likes of Mick Wall and other music journalists who over hype this album, along with a bunch of non metal fans who listened to anything but metal, apart from the one or two Metallica albums they know. The insipid fan who will cite MoP for being inducted into some institution, which is frankly, so anti-metal! Those who shout to the roof top that Metallica are the best because they sell more records; that's like saying that Transformers: the last knight, is better than Blade Runner 2049, because it was a box office smash and BR2049 wasn't. The Last Knight and the Transformer's movies are garbage, and it's the same diluted Metallica fan base who goes to see Transformers. That's the real problem–not MoP. MoP is just a weaker clone of RTL which got and gets over hyped by the Transformer crowd.

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CannibalCorpse
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
Posts: 264
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:44 am 
 

TrooperEd wrote:

What I want to know is who the fuck told him Infernal Overkill was tech-thrash? I have never, EVER heard of any of Destruction's catalog referred to as that. The only thing I've ever heard Infernal Overkill referred to as other than thrash is black metal, from the Norwegian Black Metal collective specifically.


Well, "Cracked Brain" is a pretty technically challenging album and if you spend some time with it, you can hear why it receives the "technical" tag sometimes.

Rosenmerkel is one annoying vocalist, though - you have to get past him first to enjoy the album ;-)
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SweetLeaf95
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:19 am
Posts: 660
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:09 am 
 

Cracked Brain is actually one of my favorites by them.
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Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:34 am 
 

My problem with Metallica is not that they're "not extreme in any particular direction", it's their slavish fidelity to the traditions and common practices of rock music, which I think had largely tapped out its creative potential by the mid-1970s, and IMO in a world where our culture actually functioned properly instead of being distorted by the interests of the entertainment industry and an audience whose tastes have been flattened by said industry, rock music would have faded away around that time and would be obscure now, having been replaced by new genres that came out of the progressive and experimental music of the '70s (and that would have itself been replaced by still different forms of music in the '80s and '90s)--but those genres died, were murdered, before they could be fully realized and we were left with the musical counterrevolution of punk and our current never-ending Groundhog Day where rock bands rehash increasingly tired versions of the music of 50 years ago, again and again, seemingly forever, and heavy metal is just more of the same except louder and more superficially "extreme". The late '80s were heavy metal's one chance to break out of this rut, and albums like Master of Puppets ensured metal would fail.
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TrooperEd
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:18 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:32 pm 
 

So I just read Woolie's review and I have to say, good shit man! Good shit! The genuine populace likes to mock the sentiment that people want "the same thing but completely different," but it's such an awesome thing to behold when somebody does it right. I got the same feeling and the same musical expertise (possibly even more) from the Ultraboris Master of Puppets over a decade ago. There's only a couple of problems:

"Michael Grosskopf" did you mean Markus Grosskopf from Helloween? If so, this is the second time I've heard him held in that high of esteem. Is he actually that great of a bass player? Aside from the little break in Eagle Fly Free I never thought much of him.

There are also sentences where I can't tell what the subject is. For example:

Quote:
"Metallica were safe; they didn’t have any alien chromatic solos or confusing counterpoint or deliberate dissonance or truly breakneck tempos or belting high-pitched singing that could make a virulently homophobic ‘80s boy insecure about both his sexuality and his singing talents, "


Are we talking about James here or your average white kid?


Another example and one that confused me the most:
Quote:
"So in come the blues rock licks, and some jam band noodling when they want to calm things down a bit, because Uncle Ron’s jazz and classical records were so boring so they never absorbed any of it (and, thus, neither could they absorb Rainbow or Fates Warning), and their mothers didn’t let them listen to “urban” music."


By "they" do we mean Metallica, and Metallica's mothers never let them listen to urban music, or are we talking about music fans?


I also take umbrage with the "crusty old British metal albums that were ancient history by the time the recording sessions came along," because I presume that's a slag towards Maiden, Priest and Motorhead. If its a slag towards the NWOBHM bands that aren't them, yea, that's fine.
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Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:11 pm 
 

By that line about crusty bands, I meant more bands like Saxon, Diamond Head, etc.

And yes, I meant Markus Grosskopf, and I think he is a very good bass player, at least from the first few albums before Kai Hansen left--if he's lost his mojo in the Andi Deris era I wouldn't know, because I haven't heard any Helloween music after Keeper of the Seven Keys Part II that I enjoyed.

As for those ambiguous sentences, they were kind of ambiguous on purpose; in hindsight I probably overreached a bit there.
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bayern
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Bulgaria
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:35 am 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:
And yes, I meant Markus Grosskopf, and I think he is a very good bass player, at least from the first few albums before Kai Hansen left--if he's lost his mojo in the Andi Deris era I wouldn't know, because I haven't heard any Helloween music after Keeper of the Seven Keys Part II that I enjoyed.


I'll second that, Markus Grosskopf is by far one of the finest bass players on the field. You don't even have to listen intently in order to hear his authoritative walkabouts underneath the guitar duels, especially on the 80's works; quite similar to the ones of Steve Harris, as a matter of fact...

Yes, he does sound more subdued on the albums with Andy Deris, I'm not sure if this is intentional or not; I guess with Kai Hansen's pyrotechnics gone his "burping" enthusiasm has diminished.

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8089
Location: York, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:42 am 
 

A good review, but the analysis of Metallica with American culture in mind makes a lot more sense than rambling on about how Overkill are more thrash than them. That said, player by player analysis and who is better than them on their respective instruments seems a bit petty. I mean it’s only Metallica fanboys who really, really rate Hammett highly as a player and Cliff Burton, while good, isn’t the world’s best bassist by a country mile and those solos do reek of “frustrated guitarist”.
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DrummingEdge133
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:47 pm 
 

TrooperEd wrote:
In conclusion, imitation or not, it's an enjoyable release. If you can't get enough Venom worship, by all means pick it up, just don't expect anything groundbreaking.


I'm confused here. Are you actually saying Master's debut (and therefore the bulk of their discography, since they didn't change a lot over 30 years) is Venom worship (you used the word imitation too)? That's a pretty....silly/puzzling assessment.
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TrooperEd
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:18 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:29 pm 
 

DrummingEdge133 wrote:
TrooperEd wrote:
In conclusion, imitation or not, it's an enjoyable release. If you can't get enough Venom worship, by all means pick it up, just don't expect anything groundbreaking.


I'm confused here. Are you actually saying Master's debut (and therefore the bulk of their discography, since they didn't change a lot over 30 years) is Venom worship (you used the word imitation too)? That's a pretty....silly/puzzling assessment.



I just call it as I see it.
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DemonFeces
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:41 am
Posts: 29
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:39 pm 
 

Metallica's success rankles us because we all know there are many more deserved bands out there.

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DrummingEdge133
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:35 am 
 

TrooperEd wrote:
I just call it as I see it.



Well you're seeing something that ain't there, my friend. What on Earth makes you hear Venom in Master? Aside from some painfully vague descriptors that could apply to hundreds of early death metal bands? Paul Speckmann's vocals are more in line with Death's Chuck than anything on Venom. Is Death also black metal now?
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Marco_AGJ
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:27 am
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:42 am 
 

So, how long until the admins realize the reviews on this website are 99% irrelevant since 201x or so?

Really, the last few made me log in after a decade because they hurt my SOUL!

How did these 20-something think they could write about what they have absolutely no idea of?

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Five_Nails
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:34 pm
Posts: 476
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:04 am 
 

Marco_AGJ wrote:
So, how long until the admins realize the reviews on this website are 99% irrelevant since 201x or so?

Really, the last few made me log in after a decade because they hurt my SOUL!

How did these 20-something think they could write about what they have absolutely no idea of?



Man, I had to read that in a Southern accent just to really comprehend what you said, boyo. So down dat rabbit howle, heas we goes:

My first review on this site was from when I was only sixteen years old and I'm damn sure it don't hold up but at les' dat flavor is der, like a crawdad marinading in some good ol' oil before stewin' on da grill.

I'm sure you been livin' in dem 'Cowboys from Hell' years, and damned if I don't sound like one-a dem imbreedas tryin' to talk 'bout what I don't know, 'cause I be one of dem damn millenials you be slanderin' but aleas I knows what I be speakin' 'bout in my reviews brotha'. How 'bout you take yo' airboat and blast it on back to yo part o' da swamp and chomp on soma dem crawdads and da like 'cause der be real people here ta tawlk 'bout a newcomin' generation 'o kids who lika' talk metal and show a lil' bit o' der desire to become betta' writas dan you lika to sees in yo speeks.



I'm sure a guy with your incredible diction and capacity to get a point across that so denigrates new reviewers is absolutely warranted in this area. Surely you are the arbiter of what is worthwhile while having been so graceful as to not say anything about this "society" less its faults until it was at such a crisis point, like a good monarch should. Can you please drive the darkness out of our world? Obviously you know the natural motions of metal music and its fanbase and therefore must pick out the perfect writers in it. Please, a new metal King Arthur, can you elevate me to your status and pull your sword from my stone. I am so far entrenched in deathcore that I must be driven back from it because I cannot headbang to anything but a breakdown! It is such a horrible affliction that has nothing to do with the written word I have laid down for years before in my own reviews. I should not want to be raped by the desolation that the 'Archives' will endure yet your judgement, like separating the truthless from the trve, can gratefully ensure a new realm of metallic purity. Please, can you try to save the realm of witches and folklore from societal deprivations? May I live as your castrated Queen to your expansive kingdom of wisdom, surviving only due to your judgement and begging you for mercy because you are obviously ready to usurp the throbbing thrones that Dio and Lemmy have lost through their own sucklings from the whiskey-wrought teats of death's metallic edge? I'm but a poor boy, begging to vaginalize my genital area for your definition of heavy metal literature! Please, come unto me as Heaven and Hell have come unto you!



Naw I donst knows if yous been noticin' from dat las' bit o' litruata, but I been usin' dem sarcassms n' sheet. Lucky you boi', somebody gotta speaks some propa Ingrish here 'n' der, but I be too dumb ta knows what you tink be da right generations to bring dat 'bout. Derfoa ima stay silentlike 'cause you clearly canst stop yaself from writin da best musik reviews eva mades, rite?
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CHAIRTHROWER
Chairleader

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:31 am 
 

Marco Polo's post is quite lame, coming from a dude who hasn't even written a single review since joining the site in '09...

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Five_Nails
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:34 pm
Posts: 476
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:40 am 
 

CHAIRTHROWER wrote:
Marco Polo's post is quite lame, coming from a dude who hasn't even written a single review since joining the site in '09...



So, rather than Louisianian' the idea, let's just say that this guy "Marco" is a cunt. Well that is what I wanted to push. I was just hoping he would reply before anyone else would. Fuck him. He has nothing to contribute but everything to complain about. You'll see soon enough buddy, there are too many people like that who will never have a review they're working on, any connections to any band, but just want to shit on this site. I know you're not new here but you're a quick and decisive guy, you saw through his shit pretty quickly. Yet another enemy of the state of the Encyclopedia. If that guy was such a "true" metalhead from back in 2009, how has he not found a "job" since "then" and "still" needs to "rant" at this "website" for its "new reviewers" when he hasn't contributed anything more than a bitch-post?

It sucks to be that dumbass who feels better than everyone around you for a little while, expecting it will last, and then watch it fall like dominoes just to realize that your old abandoned life has moved on a bit (maybe become more prosperous and enduring than you expected while playing open notes you thought were lame), doesn't it Marco? You could have been supportive, you could have been nice, now you're forever known to me as being an out-of-the-gate-asshole.

Fact is, there are some folks who can just have some fun, this one wanted to start out angry. If he was really angry, he could have just headbanged, but he decided to be a keyboard warrior. That isn't going to assuage any anger. It will only piss other people off. Sober up, have some fun on this site, and stop being so damn puritan about an uncontrollable evolution, "Marco", and you'll understand what this site is about.

Anything other than that, the guy is just being an asshat.

If you like the music, then write a review. If you don't, then say what you don't like about it, but to shit on reviewers while having nothing to provide yourself is the most pathetic bit of trolling I can imagine.

Sorry if I seem too incensed by this douchebag, he's worthless.
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zeingard
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:49 pm
Posts: 591
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:44 am 
 

Marco_AGJ wrote:
So, how long until the admins realize the reviews on this website are 99% irrelevant since 201x or so?

Really, the last few made me log in after a decade because they hurt my SOUL!

How did these 20-something think they could write about what they have absolutely no idea of?


Drinking helped.

DemonFeces wrote:
Metallica's success rankles us because we all know there are many more deserved bands out there.


I always hate this argument:

"Ugh, why isn't XXXX more popular than Metallica?" (This sentence does not extend to that actual beer named XXXX which is completely undrinkable and thus only useful for throwing at the head of the nearest Queenslander).

It is said with the expectation that exposure would not somehow influence their output and shape them in some sense. Let's not mince words, Metallica wanted to be big and played some very safe and pedestrian thrash metal to get to that point. This isn't to say that creativity can only be fostered through obscurity, but the lack of attention directed at bands can certainly dictate their own musical exploration and trajectory (for better or worse).

I mean, 'Awaken the Guardian' is fucking phenomenal but not because no one at the bars I frequent do not know of it. Challenge mode is of course 'The Sum of All Fossils' by Flourishing.
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2239
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:45 am 
 

I'm a bit late to the party on this but I'd also like to offer some praise to Woolie on his Master Of Puppets review, if only because I think it offers a somewhat different perspective from the Ultraboris one. While the latter was concerned primarily with the impact that the media hype surrounding that album affected thrash metal as a sub-genre (let's face it, Ultraboris was only ever concerned with thrash metal, anything outside of said style that he reviewed was viewed through the lens of a mid to late 80s thrash riff trustee), Woolie puts an interesting twist on things by referencing the broader metal world. I was particularly taken by his arguments that the continual worship of MOP has had a stifling affect on the development of metal stylistically speaking, as more progressive-minded acts tend to struggle to find an audience in the wake of the continuing dogmatism that infects many both inside and outside the metal community regarding Metallica's "classic" offerings, and MOP in particular.

My principle disagreement with the review, apart from it being a bit overlong, is the scoring. I can't really justify scoring MOP lower than a 60 (my own review at the time was basically a less vulgar and more analytic take on Ultraboris' view of the album, and I scored it around where he said it would fall on musical merit alone) just because a bunch of music journalists and occasional metal consumers mistake a decent album for a masterpiece. The more I revisit Ultraboris' review, the more I think he was reacting to that cringe-fest on MTV just prior to St. Anger's release where Limp Bizkit, Sum 41 and Avril Lavigne all covered select Metallica songs (Master Of Puppets was the most heavily represented era among these half-assed performances) rather than MOP itself. That event definitely underscores how culturally pervasive the album was and continues to be in non-metal circles, but it doesn't really speak to even the time-specific influences that said album achieved, at least to the extent that I think a review of the album should. I've been meaning to do some modifications to my own MOP review to reflect the fact that I have grown to appreciate the album a bit more in recent years, and also to ram home the point that my own review wasn't intended to go in the same iconoclastic direction that Ultraboris and Woolie went, but more so as a "It's good, but there is better metal out there" direction.

Oh, and not to split hairs, but Overkill wipes the floor with Metallica at just about every turn, and most of Metallica's better moments were either written by Mustaine, or where his influence is impossible to miss on Hetfield's writing. No insult intended to the resident Bastard, I just call them as I hear them. :p
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Psyche_Dome
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:31 am
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:04 am 
 

DemonFeces wrote:
Metallica's success rankles us because we all know there are many more deserved bands out there.


Personally, it's because I picked up on MoP in '90, and preferred that type of metal to what I first heard from Iron Maiden, which was 'Taking Your Daughter to the Slaughter'. I immediately went for the back catalog, and knew that the KEA/Ride the Lightning was for me, while MoP and JFA, served as weaker clones–and, The Black Album was a bore-fest, but I could overlook that. By the time I saw Metallica for a second time, in '96, they were playing a lot of the boring album, along with a load of Load era rubbish. For me, it's the the fact that I loved that Lightning era, however, there's been a plethora of average to atrocious albums, and poor musicianship, for the best part of 25 years.

I have to still regard Metallica, because they introduced me to American thrash, and I've followed all of the other Amercan, Canadian, and German thrashers ever since, but I can't stand the level rubbish Metallica have delivered.

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MutantClannfear
Veteran

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3127
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:30 am 
 

TIL that Five_Nails is definitely not from the South.
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Psyche_Dome
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:31 am
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:40 am 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
The more I revisit Ultraboris' review, the more I think he was reacting to that cringe-fest on MTV just prior to St. Anger's release where Limp Bizkit, Sum 41 and Avril Lavigne all covered select Metallica songs (Master Of Puppets was the most heavily represented era among these half-assed performances) rather than MOP itself.

I've been meaning to do some modifications to my own MOP review to reflect the fact that I have grown to appreciate the album a bit more in recent years, and also to ram home the point that my own review wasn't intended to go in the same iconoclastic direction that Ultraboris and Woolie went, but more so as a "It's good, but there is better metal out there" direction.

Oh, and not to split hairs, but Overkill wipes the floor with Metallica at just about every turn, and most of Metallica's better moments were either written by Mustaine, or where his influence is impossible to miss on Hetfield's writing. No insult intended to the resident Bastard, I just call them as I hear them. :p


I'm so glad I just switched off from that appalling era of music.

Your review is a piece of good MA history–a moment in time.

There are many Mustaine-isms on the first three albums. I even think that the 'Disposible Heroes' verse riff, with its fast tremolo picking and pull-offs, is something Mustaine was doing in '81-82, which then developed into the coda on 'Bad Omen'. And, of course, the bridge section on 'Leper' is paraphrasing Mustaine. I think that the 2nd part of the bridge on 'Leper' is like the descending power chord structure from 'RTL', which plays in between the spider riff.

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TheStormIRide
Jesuscop

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:45 pm
Posts: 1803
Location: Brazildonesia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:44 pm 
 

Good to see some more people appreciating some negative wizard metal. Nice Rebel Wizard review, Chairs. I thought NKSV's riffing was tight on that one. I listened to the recent release in passing, but seeing your review made me want to dig it back out.
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CHAIRTHROWER
Chairleader

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:12 pm 
 

Ah, that Reb Wizard! Haha...my friend Neil hated the production, wouldn't even listen to "On The Unknown Self They Ride" - his loss I suppose (though he did appreciate the review!)...Thanks Storm, for both the insight into the band, and kind werdz...

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TheStormIRide
Jesuscop

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:45 pm
Posts: 1803
Location: Brazildonesia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:45 pm 
 

CHAIRTHROWER wrote:
Ah, that Reb Wizard! Haha...my friend Neil hated the production, wouldn't even listen to "On The Unknown Self They Ride" - his loss I suppose (though he did appreciate the review!)...Thanks Storm, for both the insight into the band, and kind werdz...


The production is purposely really dry and raw, but I think it works best for the project's sound. I can't imagine that stuff sounding as powerful with a polished, clinical production job.
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CHAIRTHROWER
Chairleader

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:52 pm 
 

Haha! Dig this line from Tanuki's Saxon/Dogs of War album:

>This album is at least partially rescued by a wonderfully crisp production, distancing it from Power & the Glory which sounds like it was recorded on a Furby.

Too much!

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CHAIRTHROWER
Chairleader

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:10 pm
Posts: 299
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:02 pm 
 

Here's another Tanuki twist which made me laugh out loud, from his Angel Witch - Frontal Assault review:

<Also not helping matters is the production quality, which is something I should've mentioned a long time ago. There's a grimy, muddled mixing not unlike Cobra's infamous Back from the Dead. It's like listening to metal through a gimp mask...

Jocose to a fault, just the way I like it!

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lonerider
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:00 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:51 am 
 

So, about that recent review of Master of Puppets where it was given a score 50 percent ... I mean, I'm not saying it's the be-all, end-all of thrash metal, but a score of 50 still seems pretty low. On the other hand, it’s certainly a justifiable score indicating the album in question is at least of average quality. My point being: there have been some much more blatant examples of albums being given ridiculously low scores of late. The one that kind of ticked me off was that most recent review for Maiden's A Matter of Life and Death, which graded it at 13 percent. 13 percent?!? Really?!?

Now, I'm not bringing this up because I happen to really like that particular record. I'm bringing it up merely because it's symptomatic for an annoying trend that's been going on for quite a while and that's really, IMHO, undermining the reputation of this site. It's perfectly fine to not like or even to despise an album. We all do that. But to dismiss something as utter crap - and a rating of 13 percent certainly indicates that something is utter crap - just because you don't like the general style or direction of it comes off as spiteful and insincere. The way I see it, scores that low should really be reserved for, well, utter crap, i. e. stuff that's not even professionally made, by guys that can hardly play their instruments, or stuff that’s not much more than staticky noise.

Pertaining to the album in question: even if you absolutely hate Maiden's musical direction since the early 2000s, there's certainly no denying AMoLaD is, at the very least, professionally made. So write a scathing review if you like, rate it at 40, 30 or even 25 percent and be done with it. 13 percent, however, just seems preposterously low.

It seems to me this is a phenomenon mostly affecting some of the old "dinosaur" bands of the metal scene - the Maidens, Priests, Slayers, Megadeths, Metallicas and so forth -, where each new album is inevitably compared to their most revered classics. When a new album does not sound like those classics, it's automatically disqualified as pure manure. Maiden don't make songs like "The Trooper" any more? Damn those old geezers, they suck! Priest once again didn't make another Painkiller or Defenders of the Faith? Die, Priest, die! Or, even worse, albums, and even classic albums at that, being dismissed simply because some dude doesn't like a band or musician on a personal level. Metallica/Hetfield/Ulrich? Die, you greedy ass millionaires! And so it goes on and on.

By the way, this also works in reverse: albums being awarded ridiculously high ratings of way above 90 percent, just because some guy happens to have bought it the other day and since he fell in love with it instantly and is now listening to it all the time, he absolutely cannot help himself and simply has to give it 100 percent. I get it, opinions on music and therefore all album reviews are inherently subjective, but 100 percent? Utter perfection?!? Come on!!


TOO LONG; DID NOT READ: I am aware this has probably been discussed a gazillion times before and I apologize for bringing it up again, but I really think there ought to be some much, much stricter guidelines on how to grade a release. Subjectivity aside, there are definitely way too many album scores of below 20 or above 90 percent, which I believe is detrimental to the status of this site as one of the most respected information sources for metal on the internet. That is all. ;-)

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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
Posts: 9275
Location: At the Heat of Winter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:22 am 
 

Scoring scales vary from reviewer to reviewer, and shouldn't be given much credence to begin with...
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TrooperEd
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:18 pm
Posts: 1970
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:29 am 
 

Professionally made certainly sounds like a compliment, until I not so kindly redefine it as "a participation award for bands that are big enough to be corporations." The prequels were professionally made. And I bet that first Sharknado movie was too.

Second of all if you read my review you'd have seen this chestnut:

"Finally, and I realize this is petty and slightly non musical but I'm taking at least 20 points off for the worst decision this band made since choosing Blaze Bayley as a lead vocalist: playing the entire album live."

13 + 20 = 33. There you go.

I also mention that I love The Pilgrim and if Maiden had put out an album with 7 or 8 songs like that, along with a The Longest Day and even a Lord of Light for good measure, I'd have been perfectly fine with it.

I think if anything I don't have enough below 20 scores. I don't think I even have anything below a 10. That's partially because I don't want to subject myself to something that truly awful/I try to find merit in things.

As for the upcoming Priest, I think people's reservations is that it is yet another Painkiller or DOTF, or at least Rob Halford is still stuck in his cringey "vaporipize" lyric writing mode. I like Lightning Strikes by the way.

In addition, I think I'm safe in saying that At The Edge of Time sounds a tad different from Nightfall in Middle Earth and Imaginations From The Other Side. Yet I think its the best, if not second best thing Blind Guardian has ever done, and that album is 8 years old.
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Psyche_Dome
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:31 am
Posts: 135
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:46 am 
 

Tanuki provided a really good Saxon discography review.

And, seeing ThrashFanatics 100% scores on over 80% of his reviews just made me bypass all of them. I don't even know if the reviews are any good because of his ridiculous score system.

I didn't even know Machine Head released another album 'till Psychoticnicolai and Wacke reviewed it. What kind of person listens to, and likes this fucking horrible Machine Head?

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TrooperEd
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 6:18 pm
Posts: 1970
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:09 am 
 

The Blackening should have been called the Bluepilling, as it fooled many a metal-fan into thinking that Machine Head was ever good. It certainly fooled me into thinking Phil Demmel was the true spirit of Vio-lence.
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Last edited by TrooperEd on Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 4373
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:10 am 
 

If The Chemical Wedding is groove metal, then I must really fucking love groove metal.
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