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zeingard
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:49 pm
Posts: 600
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:30 am 
 

Why is gasmask_colostomy being bodied for giving an album 86%? That is an obscenely high score, especially for a fuckin' Primordial album of all things. Just because he didn't give it a rusty trombone that was up to your standards does not invalidate his opinion.

Honestly most metal albums could use a good trimming because metal musicians are often shithouse at dynamic pacing and song structures.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 7983
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:52 pm 
 

zeingard wrote:
Why is gasmask_colostomy being bodied for giving an album 86%? That is an obscenely high score, especially for a fuckin' Primordial album of all things. Just because he didn't give it a rusty trombone that was up to your standards does not invalidate his opinion.

Honestly most metal albums could use a good trimming because metal musicians are often shithouse at dynamic pacing and song structures.

Edit: gonna rewrite what I said to not be unnecessarily rude.

I don't think I bodied anyone, and nobody criticised the score either. You're jumping to conclusions without trying to understand the nuances of what was being said.

Is your last sentence aimed at or relevant to The Gathering Wilderness specifically?
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droneriot
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:04 pm 
 

zeingard wrote:
Why is gasmask_colostomy being bodied for giving an album 86%? That is an obscenely high score, especially for a fuckin' Primordial album of all things. Just because he didn't give it a rusty trombone that was up to your standards does not invalidate his opinion.

Honestly most metal albums could use a good trimming because metal musicians are often shithouse at dynamic pacing and song structures.

I don't think the person in charge of the Ilwhyan account is the same person it used to be. Used to be a regular user but now it's some bizarre outrage troll. Either the account was hacked or he's at a very weird place in his life acting out on the internet (not something unheard of), but it's absolutely nothing like the regular Ilwhyan that's been around for years.
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:38 pm 
 

zeingard wrote:
Why is gasmask_colostomy being bodied for giving an album 86%? That is an obscenely high score, especially for a fuckin' Primordial album of all things. Just because he didn't give it a rusty trombone that was up to your standards does not invalidate his opinion.

Honestly most metal albums could use a good trimming because metal musicians are often shithouse at dynamic pacing and song structures.


Primordial has a heavily devoted fan base, not as "in your face" as people who worship Mastodon, but I've noted several occasions where I've gotten my head bitten off in the past for making critical remarks about Redemption At The Puritan's Hand being a bit plodding. Funny thing is, I don't think I'd review any album that Primordial ever put out at less than a 70 if I ever got around to it, but I've noticed people are fairly protective of the band as a whole. I'm not saying that they're bad or even below average, but I don't think they are above criticism, and I found myself agreeing with some of gasmask's points on that review.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:44 pm 
 

The guy was hitting on my now-wife before I knew her at a festival at the same time he was engaged to a girl I used to flirt with on video chat. Always thought that was funny to have such a stereotypical rockstar lifestyle with a band that pretends to be so serious. Basically a band that's as glam rock as Mötley Crüe trying to be as serious as Burzum. Fits their music, too.
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GuntherTheUndying
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:49 pm 
 

The guy?
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:55 pm 
 

GuntherTheUndying wrote:
The guy?

Primordial singer and always assumed universal mastermind, hence my reduction of the band to "the guy."
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zeingard
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:49 pm
Posts: 600
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:09 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Edit: gonna rewrite what I said to not be unnecessarily rude.

I don't think I bodied anyone, and nobody criticised the score either. You're jumping to conclusions without trying to understand the nuances of what was being said.

Is your last sentence aimed at or relevant to The Gathering Wilderness specifically?


Ah yes the nuances of responding to the criticism "This album is a little too long and flat" with "You're wrong, being long and flat is actually good!".

hells_unicorn wrote:
Funny thing is, I don't think I'd review any album that Primordial ever put out at less than a 70 if I ever got around to it, but I've noticed people are fairly protective of the band as a whole. I'm not saying that they're bad or even below average, but I don't think they are above criticism, and I found myself agreeing with some of gasmask's points on that review.


Emphasis mine. Anyone who is protective of band has exactly zero opinions worth listening to.
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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:22 pm 
 

zeingard wrote:
Emphasis mine. Anyone who is protective of a band has exactly zero opinions worth listening to.


It is an amateur attitude to have if someone is any kind of reviewer, I'll admit to being protective of certain albums in the past, but nowadays I don't really see a point in getting my dander up over someone hating music that I like, unless they are making an objective claim that is WILDLY off base.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:24 pm 
 

My goal was to spawn a discussion and it worked ;)
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ᴎostalgiʞK
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:27 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:39 pm 
 

I didn't find anything wrong with gasmask's review, I have the same opinion:
zeingard wrote:
Emphasis mine. Anyone who is protective of band has exactly zero opinions worth listening to.


86% is a really high score, drumming is not that stellar tho.

I think gasmask hits the target when talking about the voice, in fact, in my opinion I would never use clean vocals if I'm going to have projects like this, "shouting into the wind" is a good name of this type of vocals implemented. On the other hand, I would put tons of shrieks, because let's be honest, these blackened riffs are actually truly glorious and deserve extreme, powerful singing, since the vocals leave much to be desired, they're just occupying space, it seems they're using a vocalist that is experimenting metal recently, or another one that is tired of doing extreme stuffs and proceeded to make progressive stuffs like this (fatal error).

The "woah woah's" parts are weak... Really weak, but well.. At least I don't find any autotune there :P

hells_unicorn wrote:
[...] someone hating music that I like. [...]


I found a constructive review here.

But COME ON, seriously? Those instruments handed by those vocals? Leeeeeroooy Jeeeenkiiins, hell no.

Metantoine wrote:
My goal was to spawn a discussion and it worked ;)


Nice.
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gasmask_colostomy
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:22 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
My goal was to spawn a discussion and it worked ;)

But at what cost? :aww: At least you didn’t make me defend the Chevalier one hehe

Also, while I’m writing this on my phone, the battery knowingly dropped to 86% :durr:

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BastardHead
Worse than the PMRC

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:46 am 
 

- I think Primordial is great, The Gathering Wilderness is their best album, and 86% is still a high score so even if I disagree with some of the nitpicks I really don't understand the hyperbolic outrage.

- One of my most common complaints about metal albums is that many of them tend to be way too long, but Primordial is a band expansive and intricate enough for the lengthy runtimes to be a plus. These songs need room to breathe.

- All I want for Christmas is for drone to log off.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:02 am 
 

zeingard wrote:
Ah yes the nuances of responding to the criticism "This album is a little too long and flat" with "You're wrong, being long and flat is actually good!".
Yeah, that would be a perfect demonstration of interpreting what was said in bad faith, and then acting extremely condescendingly about it. Nice going.
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zeingard
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:17 am 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Nice going.


Thanks, it's hard being right all of the time.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:00 pm 
 

gasmask_colostomy wrote:
Metantoine wrote:
My goal was to spawn a discussion and it worked ;)

But at what cost? :aww:

Spoiler: show
Image


I don't care about the score, this was an hyperbolic post obviously. I simply think all his criticisms were wrong and that he didn't get Primordial, ya know.
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gasmask_colostomy
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:21 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
gasmask_colostomy wrote:
Metantoine wrote:
My goal was to spawn a discussion and it worked ;)

But at what cost? :aww:

Spoiler: show
Image


I don't care about the score, this was an hyperbolic post obviously. I simply think all his criticisms were wrong and that he didn't get Primordial, ya know.

You thought there was gonna be a scene and jumped in to help out your homies. I hear ya.

However, I reckon me not getting Primordial would have still been a valid way to write a review. I didn’t claim that the solos are from deathcore or anything like that.

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GuntherTheUndying
Crimson King, Eater of Worlds

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:40 pm 
 

Your review was fine. Good analysis and understanding of the music
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Five_Nails
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:34 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:58 pm 
 

Gasmask's review was great and very well described some of the issues I have with the band. I do like how the band draws itself out but it does linger too long sometimes and overall the band is very good but just not great. I'm not going to listen to them unless I want to cry for Irleland like I'm Evita painting a monobrow on myself to feel like defacing myself while still the most powerful person in a country. (because that's how much a tortured genius I am :P)

Still, the perspective I get from the band's music, especially on an album like 'Redemption at the Puritan's Hand', has as much to do with my family's history with Ireland as it does with understanding the desperation the band puts forth. Half of my family is Irish and my dad has family members who had speakeasies during Prohibition and sent the profits and weapons over to Ireland to help fight occupation. My family sided with Sinn Fein and was for Irish independence for decades, if not centuries depending on which family member we're talking about. The music that Primordial plays, at least to me, speaks from a desperate and occupied perspective, a people crushed and persecuted by the lion and unicorn who have little to gain from the few clovers left on the island. Primordial sounds like an empire in decline, attempting to gradually uplift itself and endure the trials and troubles of centuries of blood while also attempting to form itself again, to realign and find its own way forward after such daunting defeat. I think that makes Primordial beautiful and at the same time it throws me out of the music because of how long-winded and endlessly lamentatious it is. Gasmask had a smart view of it and though the band can pull out a good reel here and there, they end up swamped by outer forces so willing to destroy any majesty that could arise that its glory becomes a subdued cry for hope.

Primordial sounds like a society defeated where much of black metal sounds like a new society arising. Don't get me wrong, Ireland's politics are different from what's presented in the music but the band sounds like the laments of a dying Celtic culture rather than an attempt to embrace the majesty of it. They're not as happy to be themselves as Waylander is. Primordial is fiercely engaged in mourning its dead.

The Scandinavians on the other hand, they have such a hold on majesty in metal it does set Primordial apart to play like the band does, as though each song is their last breath against invasion, something that would round out Ex Deo even better rather than Iacono only speaking of the bravery of a civilization that fell so hard that it experienced 'Centuries of Torment'. Still, it'll pull at me here and there but Gasmask is right that it won't always make an impact due to its aimlessness. With songs so long and nary a "wow" moment it's difficult to consider the band more than a casual listen rather than a name you can carve into your forearm. Still, glad Gasmask gave Primordial not only a try but an excellent write-up but, while still liking the album, said plenty of what I feel about the band.

Even so, glad you're the one under the review miscroscope right now, I'd hate to deal with the thrashing that you got on the last page for a review. :oh shit:
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gasmask_colostomy
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 11:17 pm 
 

Nails, I think you’ve got a great Primordial review in you from that comment.

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SweetLeaf95
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:17 am 
 

I love that Idle Hands - Mana doesn't have a review below 90%, save for that Grizzly Butts guy or whatever that dumps like a 10 reviews in at once.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:32 pm 
 

I hate people who are too liberal with their 100%, especially for new albums they've heard like 5 times since it came out "but it's the best album I've heard this year!". Alongside Idle Hands, there's the new Lunar Shadow as well who clearly doesn't deserve its average right now.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:33 pm 
 

Idle Hands is really good and all but they have plenty of room to get even better... I wouldn't say they merit a 100% yet.
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SweetLeaf95
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:02 pm 
 

I went with 95% - usually I start with those and if I still feel that strongly about it later I'll bump it to the 100%
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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:24 pm 
 

I actually like the new Idle Hands a lot but yeah I try to stay conservative with my 100%s (at least a few of mine are ten years old and need to be lowered).

New Lunar Shadow kinda sucks though. They could be amazing but somehow always get the exact shittiest vocalist they can find at any given time. Same problem Ced always seems to run into with Rocka Rollas/Blazon Stone.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:32 pm 
 

Lunar Shadow is really good. They just mix the vocals low all the time and haven't got a knack for writing super hooky vocal lines. Composition and songwriting-wise they're excellent - really like that new album. They get really good guitar tones and they don't sound like they only listened to three or four 80s metal acts to write their stuff like a lot of lame new bands, though they're too dense for easy listening and hopefully will be able to bridge that gap as they go on. Even if not at least they're something intriguing.

Haven't heard anything I liked even a little from Rocka Rollas or whatever else though.
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gasmask_colostomy
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:10 am 
 

Actually, an interesting question from that:
How many 100% scores have you guys given, and how do you decide an album merits one?

I've got 2, for Wolf 'The Black Flame' and Chevalier 'Destiny Calls', because I just lose my shit while I'm listening to them and can't make any particular headway with criticism. Granted, Chevalier's debut is a much riskier release than Wolf's, but that's one of the reasons why I think it's deserving.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:36 am 
 

I just give them out whenever I think an album is pretty much perfect. It's a gut instinct thing for me. Numbers don't concern me much and if I feel like it's a 100% I'll give it one. I just try not to be hasty about it with something that just recently came out - it'd have to be really astounding for that.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:25 am 
 

I'm very picky about my 100% ratings. Every song has be more or less literally flawless for me to give that rating, hence why I only have a couple 100%'s and a shitload of 95% and 90%'s.

Occupants of my 100% club based on reviews I've written:
Savatage - The Dungeons are Calling
Pentagram - Day of Reckoning
Queensryche - Operation: Mindcrime
Khemmis - Hunted
The Flight of Sleipnir - Skadi
High on Fire - De Vermis Mysteriis
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colin040
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:13 am 
 

gasmask_colostomy wrote:
Actually, an interesting question from that:
How many 100% scores have you guys given, and how do you decide an album merits one?


I'm busy with a review for Pestilence's Malleus Maleficarum and I'll give it a 100% - it just doesn't have any flaws to my ears. I'm struggling to write for this one, though. To me thrash metal isn't as much as an evocative music style as other styles and that makes it harder for me to write down my thoughts on it.

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Cat III
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:50 am 
 

For me, a 100% doesn't necessarily have to be flawless. That's too high a standard, but I'm still sparing with them because it's the highest recommendation I can give and I want my opinion to have some weight. So far I've only given three (out of fifty-nine reviews):

Pungent Stench - Been Caught Buttering
Marduk - ROM 5:12
Sabbat - Black Up Your Soul

There's quite a few classics I'd bestow with 100% and likely will do so, but first I want to give some to albums that are not usually regarded as great, but which I think deserve more attention. Perhaps a reviewers scores should be normally distributed. I don't have that, but at least I have quite a few scores around 40-60%, though it would be good to get more negative ones in.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:44 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
I hate people who are too liberal with their 100%, especially for new albums they've heard like 5 times since it came out "but it's the best album I've heard this year!". Alongside Idle Hands, there's the new Lunar Shadow as well who clearly doesn't deserve its average right now.


I always remember you as a guy who was overly positive with your early reviews.

After reading the new Slough Feg reviews, I realise that I view their career differently to a lot of people.
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kluseba
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:13 am 
 

Shoutout to Kritik's last review. Even though English isn't his mother tongue, his review describes the music in a really detailed way, his vocabulary skills are getting more and more impressive and the references to other artist and records give a very good idea what the album is all about. Keep up the great work!

https://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/ ... tik/302958
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zeingard
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:58 am 
 

Metantoine wrote:
I hate people who are too liberal with their 100%, especially for new albums they've heard like 5 times since it came out "but it's the best album I've heard this year!". Alongside Idle Hands, there's the new Lunar Shadow as well who clearly doesn't deserve its average right now.


People just generally don't understand how numbers work.
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Thy Shrine
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:05 pm 
 

I like Napalm Satan's Gruesome review, mostly because i fucking hate that band, but i wish he would of given it the machine head treatment. I enjoy his reviews where its basically just a rant video about some shitty album that sucks, much more enjoyable than 89 paragraphs that say nothing about the album,
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GuntherTheUndying
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:54 am 
 

Empy's review of Mana brought some levelheadedness to the album's review pool. Good work.
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:44 am 
 

I like the album but was usually just waiting to get to the end of it for those amazing final two songs. If they can get a whole album like that then I'd definitely see it deserving 90+.
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CannibalCorpse
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:59 am 
 

Idle Hands are awesome and my personal discovery of the year. No way I'd give them a 100% score though, not even close, because there are still too many little flaws in there, albeit with a certain charm to them.

I've never given 100% so far. Not even to a Rotting Christ classic. I'm such a tough motherfucker ^^
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Heavy/Gothic Metal with RIFFS. From Austria.

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dystopia4
Thumbman

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
Posts: 4425
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:00 pm 
 

Welp, just finished my 500th review. God, I'm a fucking nerd.
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Napalm_Satan
Ever-Opening Flower

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:27 pm
Posts: 3310
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:04 pm 
 

What a thing to choose for your 500th review; another blow against that boring as sin Iron Griffin album. Good choice and good review, as ever.

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