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| The Official Review Discussion Thread https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7444 |
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| Author: | robotniq [ Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
colin040 wrote: I can't help but think that it's a bit of an underrated / overlooked album Agree with this. At the time people seemed to prefer "Extreme Aggression", nowadays they tend to prefer "Coma of Souls". I have no idea why, on either count. TheBurningOfSodom wrote: writing a mediocre review for an album he probably doesn't even want to review Yeah no doubt about this, I am forcing myself to listen to "Mourning has Broken" now for this exact reason, so I can see how this happens
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| Author: | Sweetie [ Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
colin040 wrote: robotiq wrote: Agree with Colin's take on "Terrible Certainty", that might be my 'go to' Kreator album even if it isn't as pure/classic as its predecessor. I'm with you man. Terrible Certainty is my personal favorite one. Endless Pain and Extreme Aggression are 2 and 3. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Great Pharaoh review by autothrall. People have got to get on this fucking band. He writes that you never know what riff is gonna come next and that the band seems to have been trying to write new-sounding stuff, both of which were the crux of why I liked it so much too. |
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| Author: | mjollnir [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Empyreal wrote: Great Pharaoh review by autothrall. People have got to get on this fucking band. He writes that you never know what riff is gonna come next and that the band seems to have been trying to write new-sounding stuff, both of which were the crux of why I liked it so much too. I've had a promo of the album for a while now....I need to go back and revisit. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
mjollnir wrote: Empyreal wrote: Great Pharaoh review by autothrall. People have got to get on this fucking band. He writes that you never know what riff is gonna come next and that the band seems to have been trying to write new-sounding stuff, both of which were the crux of why I liked it so much too. I've had a promo of the album for a while now....I need to go back and revisit. I'm sure you'll like it. It's exquisite shit for fans of just really intricately done metal. |
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| Author: | Dungeon_Vic [ Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Seconded, easy among the best releases of the year, the new Pharaoh. |
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| Author: | TheBurningOfSodom [ Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Empyreal wrote: Great Pharaoh review by autothrall. People have got to get on this fucking band. He writes that you never know what riff is gonna come next and that the band seems to have been trying to write new-sounding stuff, both of which were the crux of why I liked it so much too. Wasn't captivated by Control Denied on my first listens and thus I was totally oblivious about Pharaoh's existence. Glad they put out a new one, because your reviews made me want to check them out and yeah, I've been definitely missing out a lot until now. Brilliant stuff, at least judging by their latest, and Tim Aymar sounds amazing. May be time to re-evaluate The Fragile Art of Existence as well, but Pharaoh's sound just seems more organic to me... I've never been the biggest fan of Chuck's most progressive moments. On an unrelated note (but seconding what was said earlier in the thread), been really enjoying colin040's reviews in the latest months. Jumping from one genre to another, always with the same concise, effective style and interesting comparisons (most notably, the Varathron mention on the Hall of the Mountain King review). Another name I regularly check out by now
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
I've still never heard Control Denied. But yeah, glad you liked Pharaoh for sure! I first heard them through The Longest Night way back when I first got into metal, then Be Gone just blew me away. |
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| Author: | orphy [ Thu Nov 04, 2021 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
I recently re-listened to that Control Denied album, and it's just really disjointed. Great musicianship, some really great ideas, but it just often feels like it makes these weird jumps from idea to idea. And some of the lyrics/vocal patterns are cringe inducing. No wonder it had been over a decade since my last listen. Addendum: I forgot to mention, I enjoyed reading another negative review of Disciples of Power's "Mechanikill." Bayern seems to have picked up the same flaws that I have, where it's just utterly directionless and lacking the death/thrashing speed that made the band so good to begin with. |
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| Author: | Twisted_Psychology [ Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Can also confirm that the new Pharaoh album is astounding and an easy AOTY candidate for me personally. I was hoping they'd do justice to following up Bury the Light and wasn't sure if they would due to the long gap but they delivered and then some! As much as I love me some Control Denied, I gotta admit the vocal lines have always struck me as uncanny. Chuck was a master arranger but it seems like he didn't know how constructing clean vocal lines actually works so he just kinda treated them like another instrument, which results in some very unnatural phrasing. I know Aymar doesn't come up with all the vocal lines for Pharaoh but their main writers do a pretty good job of arranging them, especially Chris Black. |
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| Author: | colin040 [ Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
TheBurningOfSodom wrote: On an unrelated note (but seconding what was said earlier in the thread), been really enjoying colin040's reviews in the latest months. Jumping from one genre to another, always with the same concise, effective style and interesting comparisons (most notably, the Varathron mention on the Hall of the Mountain King review). Another name I regularly check out by now ![]() It's all fun and games until I start to bash your favorite bands. But yeah, thanks for the kind words; I've been enjoying writing a lot lately and I'm glad that I'm able to finish several reviews in a short amount of time. It also helps that I've been writing stuff that I'm in the mood for lately. Stay tuned for a new review by the end of this day and perhaps another one by the end of the week!
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| Author: | bayern [ Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
orphy wrote: Addendum: I forgot to mention, I enjoyed reading another negative review of Disciples of Power's "Mechanikill." Bayern seems to have picked up the same flaws that I have, where it's just utterly directionless and lacking the death/thrashing speed that made the band so good to begin with. Actually, it was your review that reminded me of this album... I love the band to bits, but after your review I decided that bigger awareness should be raised regarding their only unmitigated stumble. |
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| Author: | orphy [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
bayern wrote: orphy wrote: Addendum: I forgot to mention, I enjoyed reading another negative review of Disciples of Power's "Mechanikill." Bayern seems to have picked up the same flaws that I have, where it's just utterly directionless and lacking the death/thrashing speed that made the band so good to begin with. Actually, it was your review that reminded me of this album... I love the band to bits, but after your review I decided that bigger awareness should be raised regarding their only unmitigated stumble. Hah, cheers! I do love me some DoP - those first three albums are amazing and I always try to tell people about them when I'm on the road, as they're probably one of the most underrated gems from Edmonton. In regards to Mechanikill, Hart claimed in some bizarre diatribe that he wrote it "in his mind" during a cross country bus trip. I don't know if I buy that haha. |
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| Author: | bayern [ Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
orphy wrote: bayern wrote: orphy wrote: Addendum: I forgot to mention, I enjoyed reading another negative review of Disciples of Power's "Mechanikill." Bayern seems to have picked up the same flaws that I have, where it's just utterly directionless and lacking the death/thrashing speed that made the band so good to begin with. Actually, it was your review that reminded me of this album... I love the band to bits, but after your review I decided that bigger awareness should be raised regarding their only unmitigated stumble. Hah, cheers! I do love me some DoP - those first three albums are amazing and I always try to tell people about them when I'm on the road, as they're probably one of the most underrated gems from Edmonton. In regards to Mechanikill, Hart claimed in some bizarre diatribe that he wrote it "in his mind" during a cross country bus trip. I don't know if I buy that haha. This must have been one very acid trip... |
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| Author: | gasmask_colostomy [ Sun Nov 07, 2021 4:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Burning of Sodom is really doing some sterling stuff in the review workshop these days! Good, sensible advice for the wild and the seasoned. |
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| Author: | TheBurningOfSodom [ Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Aw, thanks man, feels good to be able to help in some little spare time! I can definitely identify my 5 years ago self in some of those new users, so it can be kinda easy to lend a hand sometimes. |
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| Author: | naverhtrad [ Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Empyreal wrote: Great Pharaoh review by autothrall. People have got to get on this fucking band. He writes that you never know what riff is gonna come next and that the band seems to have been trying to write new-sounding stuff, both of which were the crux of why I liked it so much too. I'm a huge fan of Chris Black's offbeat work in dawnbringer, so this intrigues me. I'll be sure to check out The Powers That Be - thanks, autothrall and Empyreal. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Well Black is only the drummer there, he doesn't do everything like in some of his projects - but he is a killer drummer in Pharaoh for sure. Check out their other albums too if you like that one. |
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| Author: | naverhtrad [ Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Empyreal wrote: Well Black is only the drummer there, he doesn't do everything like in some of his projects - but he is a killer drummer in Pharaoh for sure. Check out their other albums too if you like that one. LOL, duly noted and understood. By the way, I just read your review of The Powers That Be. Thrashy aggressive USPM with a lead guitarist who's a fan of Watchtower? Broad range of musical interests on display from beyond the world of metal? Lyrics that are socially-aware but not pretentious, juvenile or preachy 'woke' SJW shit? This album sounds so far up my alley that it's grinding its face against the chain-link fence at the end. This one's on my must-listen-now queue. |
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| Author: | TheBurningOfSodom [ Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Spot on Enforced review by Sweetie - I always thought of them as a poor man's Power Trip, and finally someone points that out as well. I'm obviously happy that somebody else carries this brand of crossover since PT's future is, at best, uncertain, but it's hard to accomplish it without that reverb-heavy production and especially the ferocious vocals of Riley (R.I.P.). Of course, PT's songs were also just more memorable all around. Hope Enforced will get more interesting, without wanting to sound like Power Trip at all costs. |
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| Author: | Sweetie [ Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Thank you! I was honestly worried that it was a hotter take since so many people seem to be worshipping Kill Grid. I too hope they define themselves a little better. I liked the first one plenty but this one was just ok. |
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| Author: | orphy [ Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Very much disagree with Slater922's assessment of Gorguts' "Obscura" album, but hey, that's definitely not an album for everyone. I've been listening to it for almost 20 years and I still find things about it that I haven't really picked up before. For me, that record feels fresh with every listen. |
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| Author: | robotniq [ Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
I have no time for that record at all. I'm open to the fact that I might be missing something. But I just find it really grating. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
I mean your mileage will vary with that one. To me it is a masterwork. There are plenty of more conventional albums that are also great but I would never dream of saying that album should be somehow more in-line with more traditional works. |
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| Author: | Red_Death [ Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
orphy wrote: Very much disagree with Slater922's assessment of Gorguts' "Obscura" album, but hey, that's definitely not an album for everyone. I've been listening to it for almost 20 years and I still find things about it that I haven't really picked up before. For me, that record feels fresh with every listen. It's not a great review regardless of the exact take on and experience with the album. I mean, opening with "I know this is gonna be a controversial review" (with a couple of scathingly critical reviews already?) and proceeding with another self-referential paragraph isn't the best way to go about this business, at least from my pov. Apart from that, the review gives off the impression of just being befuddled by the music. Here's what the description of the riffs boils down to: really weird riffs that try and sound complex, but feel tedious and tacky, with a few further descriptors - technical, complex, out of tune. I've no idea why the reviewer finds the riffs on "Carnal State" good and sounding nice. It's basically "this sounds weird and jumbled" kind of opinion, which isn't at all controversial, or interesting for that matter. |
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| Author: | Slater922 [ Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Red_Death wrote: I've no idea why the reviewer finds the riffs on "Carnal State" good and sounding nice. About Carnal State, I thought that track was one of the most better executed ones in terms of that more technical sound. If the entire album had that similar sound, I think Obscura would've been great. But yeah, looking back at my review, it could use a bit of improvement. I was just baffled on what I've heard, and it was pretty hard trying to describe it at the time. But hey, as writers working on improving their craft, it's better to be criticized than not. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Always a good learning experience... don't do a review if you don't really understand what you're writing about. |
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| Author: | Forever Underground [ Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Empyreal wrote: don't do a review if you don't really understand what you're writing about. You are destroying all my reviews with this comment. |
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
My bad |
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| Author: | zeingard [ Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Empyreal wrote: don't do a review if you don't really understand what you're writing about. What does it mean to "understand" an album? |
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| Author: | colin040 [ Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
zeingard wrote: Empyreal wrote: don't do a review if you don't really understand what you're writing about. What does it mean to "understand" an album? Might depend on who you ask, but to me it means having spend quite a bit of time with an album before you'll try to review for it. The fact that the reviewer wrote the following is a pretty poor sign. Quote: Until a few weeks ago, however, I avoided this album not because I do not like technical death metal or even avant-garde music, but I didn't really think it would be worth my time. Recently, though, I decided to check this album out since it was a slow day and I had nothing productive to do. I put the CD in my player, pressed play, and... here's my thoughts...
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| Author: | Empyreal [ Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
zeingard wrote: Empyreal wrote: don't do a review if you don't really understand what you're writing about. What does it mean to "understand" an album? I mean if you're admitting that you were befuddled and had a hard time articulating what you thought, it's OK just not to do the review. But then again you also can if you want because it's a free world I guess. I just meant like what colin quoted that there are times you can really tell a review wasn't necessary. |
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| Author: | gasmask_colostomy [ Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
I don't think any of us react very positively to another reviewer saying that it's the first time they've listened to an album or that they only listened to it for the first time very recently. Because we can all think of albums that needed plenty of time for our perception to develop and to feel like we "got" it. In general art criticism (including lots of "art"; for instance, literature would be included) requires the writer to know the context and content equally well in order to make a value judgement about whether the artist achieved what they were trying to, or whether some external factors (such as the distance from the contemporary period, changing tastes, personal response) alter the perception of the art despite the artist's efforts. I know that most people writing reviews are fans and not professional critics, but what's the point of the review if it doesn't engage with the subject it's about. Thus, to "understand" an album is more complicated than just knowing that album well, it depends on the background you have as well. I'm ill-equipped to understand Adele's new album because I have very little knowledge of the area that she works in, and that wouldn't change that much even if I listened to it 100 times over a few months. Give me the new Buckethead, though, and I'll understand it better in a couple of spins because I already have a good grasp of his other material and the sphere in which he operates. |
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| Author: | thePowermetalLynx [ Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
What I’m generally aiming to achieve when I write a review is to describe what the album is like and to place the work fairly in what has been done before in the genre or in the artist’s discography. Hence I refrain from reviewing any albums outside of the power metal genre because my so-called understanding of them is rather limited. |
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| Author: | zeingard [ Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
I agree that the first two paragraphs of that review are awful; no one cares about the back story of what brought you to listen to a release nor do they need to hear about your fucking listening credentials to back up your criticism. No one cares how many other albums in the genre you like, some times shit just bounces off for a myriad of reasons. The TL;DR of what I just said really is never admit weakness in a review. Act and write like you are infallible. If everyone else likes an album but you don't, they're the ones who are wrong. gasmask_colostomy wrote: Thus, to "understand" an album is more complicated than just knowing that album well, it depends on the background you have as well. I'm ill-equipped to understand Adele's new album because I have very little knowledge of the area that she works in, and that wouldn't change that much even if I listened to it 100 times over a few months. Give me the new Buckethead, though, and I'll understand it better in a couple of spins because I already have a good grasp of his other material and the sphere in which he operates. Nah sorry this is wrong. Review whatever you want, in whatever genre you want, in whatever style you want. While I can appreciate the depth and breadth of knowledge a genre fanatic (for lack of a better term) can bring to a review, I find an outsider's opinion and view far more interesting and challenging. |
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| Author: | colin040 [ Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
zeingard wrote: The TL;DR of what I just said really is never admit weakness in a review. Act and write like you are infallible. If everyone else likes an album but you don't, they're the ones who are wrong. Sounds like an excuse to write something bad. zeingard wrote: Nah sorry this is wrong. Review whatever you want, in whatever genre you want, in whatever style you want. While I can appreciate the depth and breadth of knowledge a genre fanatic (for lack of a better term) can bring to a review, I find an outsider's opinion and view far more interesting and challenging. I can't help but think that a lack of understanding will often result into a lot of historical revisionism. Think of the guy who wrote that Reign in Blood isn't as influential/extreme when compared to earlier albums. |
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| Author: | Demon Fang [ Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
Basically, have confidence in what you have to say. Don't get like obvious shit wrong of course and do try to make your case as clear as possible. |
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| Author: | TheBurningOfSodom [ Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
colin040 wrote: Think of the guy who wrote that Reign in Blood isn't as influential/extreme when compared to earlier albums. Plot twist: chances are it's the same guy (unless it's Ziomaletto, whose review is even worse than I remember now that I look at it... fun fact: I read "Darkness Descends is what Reign in Blood should be" and immediately thought of a notorious old user who could share the same opinion. Apparently, they also share the same review title... who could have expected it?)
Spoiler:
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Demon Fang wrote: Basically, have confidence in what you have to say. That's the simplest, most basic advice I can think of, yet simultaneously it's immensely spot on. If you don't, you can bet neither the readers will. |
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| Author: | Twisted_Psychology [ Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
I don't think it's "never show weakness" so much as "don't get defensive." I generally don't care what someone's take is on something as long as they can back it up with coherent reasoning and solid relatability. Even if I don't agree with them, I'll at least see where they're coming from and respect it on that basis. So yeah, basically the confidence thing. |
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| Author: | zeingard [ Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Official Review Discussion Thread |
colin040 wrote: I can't help but think that a lack of understanding will often result into a lot of historical revisionism. Think of the guy who wrote that Reign in Blood isn't as influential/extreme when compared to earlier albums. That review (editor note: I thought we were talking about the ziomaletto review for some reason) doesn't use the word influence (or any conjugation there of) at any point, the writer just states they find other releases more extreme / interesting around the time. The review is an absolute slog to read but it's certainly more interesting than yet another retread on why the album is a classic. Actually most of the negative review acknowledge the album's influence and don't discount it. Anyway it really does depend on how you want to approach writing your review. If you're coming from the position of writing about a release in the context of the history of a genre then yes, you absolutely need to have listened to all of the relevant releases before and after to correctly place it. At that point you are probably writing a dispassionate treatise rather than something fun but to each their own. To everyone else however, there is zero requirement to do the same thing. Just listen to what you like and see how you react - you are under no obligation to step back and go "Oh boy I didn't like that BUT I haven't listened to everything else that came out in 1986 so I shouldn't rush to judgement". Like write whatever man, no one cares, just make it interesting. |
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