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Sean16
Moody Tabulator of Torn Hymens

Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 11:03 am
Posts: 317
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:38 pm 
 

Gutterscream wrote:
requiem99 wrote:
You're a fool if you think that image, fanbase, and legacy aren't important to metal fans.



You've both misunderstood me - sorry if I've been unclear. Of course they are important. I only wrote they shouldn't constitute the core of a review.
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requiem99
The Buddhist Killbot

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:11 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:03 pm 
 

Sometimes they are at the core of the release in question, but I do agree that normally they shouldn't be the focus. Obviously the music is the core, but somewhat decent music can be ceaselessly annoying and actually BAD if the band's only goal is to sell albums (Raintime is a recent example that sticks out).

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Sean16
Moody Tabulator of Torn Hymens

Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 11:03 am
Posts: 317
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:15 pm 
 

Agreed. Nothing to add except it's quite ironical the criticism came from two of my favorite reviewers, that write reviews "the way I think it should be done" ;)
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Gutterscream
The Last Old Schooler in Town

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:59 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:46 pm 
 

In additon to being relative, or at least semi-relative, to the release by using factual framework or some sort of pulse-of-the-times interpretation, I think it simply adds color.
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requiem99
The Buddhist Killbot

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:11 pm
Posts: 118
Location: British Indian Ocean Territory
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:49 pm 
 

Gutterscream wrote:
In additon to being relative, or at least semi-relative, to the release by using factual framework or some sort of pulse-of-the-times interpretation, I think it simply adds color.


Wisdom.

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6312
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:32 am 
 

Sean16 wrote:
Exactly. When I read a review from caspian, I'm reading a fucking REVIEW. Not some ego-driven pseudo-essay where the so-called reviewer talks 1)about himself 2)about what is "metal" in general, as it's hardly enough for his incredible talent 3)about the band's image, fanbase, legacy, in fact everything that isn't its music 4)very quickly at the end about the album he's reviewing, because his masterpiece wouldn't be accepted without (what a shame).

Caspian's reviews on the contrary may not always be very well-written (especially his early works), but only consist in one thing: he states whether he likes an album or not, and explains why, basing himself above all on the only thing that should matter: the music.


It's kind of strange, I don't actually set out to write 'just about the music' so to speak, but it's normally what I end up doing. The other is that I don't really know much about the band I'm reviewing (MA is the only contact with the metal scene I get) so I don't often feel like I'm qualified to comment on things I'm fairly ignorant about.

..And yes, my early reviews are pretty terrible, but I guess everyone has to start somewhere.

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6312
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:30 am 
 

I thought Muloc's review of Rainfall was pretty brave, and pretty well written. Kudos for him for doing something very unfashionable. Personally I wish I'd written my review of the first Rainfall a bit harsher (I'd probably give it a 20% now), and while I'd only give the new one 40% or so, it's not quite as bad as most people seem to think.

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 9527
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:57 am 
 

It's an interesting bit of trolling he does there. A bit too obvious to work, but we all know the sacred ways of the troll take a few years of practice.
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6312
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:11 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
It's an interesting bit of trolling he does there. A bit too obvious to work, but we all know the sacred ways of the troll take a few years of practice.


well yes, the possibility that it's a troll is quite likely (there's no way it's worth 87%), but nonetheless I still thought that split was quite an improvement on the original release.

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:12 pm 
 

caspian wrote:
droneriot wrote:
It's an interesting bit of trolling he does there. A bit too obvious to work, but we all know the sacred ways of the troll take a few years of practice.


well yes, the possibility that it's a troll is quite likely (there's no way it's worth 87%), but nonetheless I still thought that split was quite an improvement on the original release.

Well, those "if you like Burzum and Summoning you're going to enjoy this too"-bits tell me he's either trolling, or he's never heard a single song of either Burzum or Summoning in his whole life. The former seems more likely there.
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Muloc7253
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 343
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:33 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
caspian wrote:
droneriot wrote:
It's an interesting bit of trolling he does there. A bit too obvious to work, but we all know the sacred ways of the troll take a few years of practice.


well yes, the possibility that it's a troll is quite likely (there's no way it's worth 87%), but nonetheless I still thought that split was quite an improvement on the original release.

Well, those "if you like Burzum and Summoning you're going to enjoy this too"-bits tell me he's either trolling, or he's never heard a single song of either Burzum or Summoning in his whole life. The former seems more likely there.


95% of your posts are complaint-centered, don't you have anything better to do with your time?
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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:40 pm 
 

Muloc7253 wrote:
droneriot wrote:
caspian wrote:
droneriot wrote:
It's an interesting bit of trolling he does there. A bit too obvious to work, but we all know the sacred ways of the troll take a few years of practice.


well yes, the possibility that it's a troll is quite likely (there's no way it's worth 87%), but nonetheless I still thought that split was quite an improvement on the original release.

Well, those "if you like Burzum and Summoning you're going to enjoy this too"-bits tell me he's either trolling, or he's never heard a single song of either Burzum or Summoning in his whole life. The former seems more likely there.


95% of your posts are complaint-centered, don't you have anything better to do with your time?

You mean like posting threads about giant turds in General, or retarded vs-threads in Metal, or "why did you reject Metalcore bands #43635645??"-threads in S&C? Nah, as far as my posting goes, I think I'm fine the way things are, and heaps above the average.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11863
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:22 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Nah, as far as my posting goes, I think I'm fine the way things are, and heaps above the average.


A dubious honor.
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Muloc7253
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 343
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:40 pm 
 

Esoteric wrote:
If there is one word to describe this album, it's "overrated," though if I could add other words, I would add "meandering, directionless, abrupt, and boring."

On Orchid, Opeth plays a mixture of Gothenburg metal and obscure 70s prog rock, more heavily leaning towards the latter. The problem is, it manages to combine the worst aspects of both and forego the strengths of both genres. Opeth simply lacks the aggression, power, and energy of death metal, and the sheer inventive energy and technical skill of the old prog bands.

10+ minute long songs, a variety of vocal styles, and acoustic passages make up the ingredients of Orchid. On paper, this should sound great, but what works with ELP, Rush, and Yes does not work with Opeth, since Opeth simply lacks the songwriting skill to keep things interesting throughout these huge 10+ minute pieces. The songs come off as tedious, stuck-together riff collages and acoustic passages stuck in there as an aftertnought. This album meanders so much without making a point that one is forced to wonder how large the cloud of cannabis smoke was in the studio that day.

That's not to say the band doesn't have talent. Ackerfeldt is a very good vocalist and the musicians aren't too bad themselves. But, you can have all the talent in the world and still produce a load of crap. Talent does not lead to the creation of fine art.


It's sad that Esoteric never wrote more reviews while he was around.
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droneriot
incelgender

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:47 am 
 

Congratulations, Muloc7253, after reading that new review for Agent Orange you're officially off the hook, much earlier than I expected.

Sodom sounds exactly like Destruction?? .....WHAT.....THE.....FUCK.....?????
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PhantomOTO
Exterminator 666 Does Not Answer

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:19 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:38 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
Congratulations, Muloc7253, after reading that new review for Agent Orange you're officially off the hook, much earlier than I expected.

Sodom sounds exactly like Destruction?? .....WHAT.....THE.....FUCK.....?????

He also called Tank glam rock. :ugh:

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11863
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:51 am 
 

PhantomOTO wrote:
droneriot wrote:
Congratulations, Muloc7253, after reading that new review for Agent Orange you're officially off the hook, much earlier than I expected.

Sodom sounds exactly like Destruction?? .....WHAT.....THE.....FUCK.....?????

He also called Tank glam rock. :ugh:


Blarglepop, in his profile comments, wrote:
The majority of musicians are artless, sub-sophomoric mongoloids, and your sonic idols are weaker than they seem. I'm not here to pat anyone on the back, I'm here to speak the truth. You don't like it? Dry those tears on your Metallica shirt and read on...


Sounds like he's trying to be Falco, except Falco actually knew what he was talking about most of the time. Kreator, Destruction, and Sodom all sound alike....right, and Metallica sounds just like Slayer. It's all clicks and whistles to me!
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MorbidBlood wrote:
So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

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Muloc7253
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 343
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:36 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
Congratulations, Muloc7253, after reading that new review for Agent Orange you're officially off the hook, much earlier than I expected.

Sodom sounds exactly like Destruction?? .....WHAT.....THE.....FUCK.....?????


I'm ever so overwhelmingly relieved to be forgiven of my sin of making note of a similarity from a compulsive moaner from the internet that I couldn't give a shit about outside of the net anyway.

Join me in this joyous jubilation brothers and sisters
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PhantomOTO
Exterminator 666 Does Not Answer

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:19 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:05 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
PhantomOTO wrote:
droneriot wrote:
Congratulations, Muloc7253, after reading that new review for Agent Orange you're officially off the hook, much earlier than I expected.

Sodom sounds exactly like Destruction?? .....WHAT.....THE.....FUCK.....?????

He also called Tank glam rock. :ugh:


Blarglepop, in his profile comments, wrote:
The majority of musicians are artless, sub-sophomoric mongoloids, and your sonic idols are weaker than they seem. I'm not here to pat anyone on the back, I'm here to speak the truth. You don't like it? Dry those tears on your Metallica shirt and read on...


Sounds like he's trying to be Falco, except Falco actually knew what he was talking about most of the time. Kreator, Destruction, and Sodom all sound alike....right, and Metallica sounds just like Slayer. It's all clicks and whistles to me!

Yes, I was thinking the same thing.

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Xeogred
Thunderbolt from Hell

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm
Posts: 7154
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:28 pm 
 

Napero's St. Anger review is amazing.

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Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8638
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:56 pm 
 

Thanks. I'm pretty sure everybody won't like it, though. As always. ;)

Edit: also, please note that I had a flu, and since I couldn't go to work, I wrote a review. So, it's been written in slight fever, and I will check it tomorrow. I don't know if I will still like it myself then.
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PriestofSadWings
Bishop of Dark Spaces

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:29 pm
Posts: 575
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:04 pm 
 

Xeogred wrote:
Napero's St. Anger review is amazing.

Seconded.
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zeingard
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:49 pm
Posts: 610
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:51 pm 
 

PriestofSadWings wrote:
Xeogred wrote:
Napero's St. Anger review is amazing.

Seconded.


Thirded, that's probably the only full review on St.Anger I've bothered to read and it was very worthwhile. I'll admit my knowledge of cars is pretty poor but the analogies and metaphors still worked thanks to the writing. Great stuff Napero!

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Mungo
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:41 pm
Posts: 663
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:57 am 
 

failsafeman wrote:
PhantomOTO wrote:
droneriot wrote:
Congratulations, Muloc7253, after reading that new review for Agent Orange you're officially off the hook, much earlier than I expected.

Sodom sounds exactly like Destruction?? .....WHAT.....THE.....FUCK.....?????

He also called Tank glam rock. :ugh:


Blarglepop, in his profile comments, wrote:
The majority of musicians are artless, sub-sophomoric mongoloids, and your sonic idols are weaker than they seem. I'm not here to pat anyone on the back, I'm here to speak the truth. You don't like it? Dry those tears on your Metallica shirt and read on...


Sounds like he's trying to be Falco, except Falco actually knew what he was talking about most of the time. Kreator, Destruction, and Sodom all sound alike....right, and Metallica sounds just like Slayer. It's all clicks and whistles to me!


Yeah, this guy has no experience in thrash whatsoever, and the three German thrash bands he mentioned have more talent combined than he could ever dream about having for the rest of eternity. The guy just sounds like he doesn't like thrash, in which case I have to wonder why the fuck he is reviewing the album in the first place.

I have to admit though, for a troll he did get me quite pissed off.

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Bash
Talking Meat

Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:06 am
Posts: 520
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:15 am 
 

Mungo wrote:
The guy just sounds like he doesn't like thrash, in which case I have to wonder why the fuck he is reviewing the album in the first place.


The majority of negative reviews for the less-true genres of metal (metalcore, melodeath) are from people who loathe the genre to begin with. Nothing new under the sun.

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6312
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:26 am 
 

Bash wrote:
Mungo wrote:
The guy just sounds like he doesn't like thrash, in which case I have to wonder why the fuck he is reviewing the album in the first place.


The majority of negative reviews for the less-true genres of metal (metalcore, melodeath) are from people who loathe the genre to begin with. Nothing new under the sun.


But... it's thrash! How can anyone not love Thrash?

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Reaper43
Painsponge

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:39 am
Posts: 347
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:42 am 
 

caspian wrote:
Bash wrote:
Mungo wrote:
The guy just sounds like he doesn't like thrash, in which case I have to wonder why the fuck he is reviewing the album in the first place.


The majority of negative reviews for the less-true genres of metal (metalcore, melodeath) are from people who loathe the genre to begin with. Nothing new under the sun.


But... it's thrash! How can anyone not love Thrash?


He is a heretic that is how, kill the infidel! *ululates*
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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:59 am 
 

everyone wrote:
someone wrote:
Hey guys, let me list a few cars.

OMG, greatest review ever!!!!!!

:scratch:
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6312
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:06 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
everyone wrote:
someone wrote:
Hey guys, let me list a few cars.

OMG, greatest review ever!!!!!!

:scratch:


It was a sweet review, and the metaphor was apt. I actually came to this thread to praise the Napero's review, because it's freaking awesome, although I would rate the album a lot higher.

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cinedracusio
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 7:59 am
Posts: 169
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:36 am 
 

Latest review for Profanaticaca's Profanatitas De Domonatia is good.
http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=150467
Not a poetic masterpiece, but solid.

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Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8638
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:45 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
everyone wrote:
someone wrote:
Hey guys, let me list a few cars.

OMG, greatest review ever!!!!!!

:scratch:

I'm sorry, droneriot, I should have mentioned in the first paragraph that the reader needs a valid driver's licence to proceed any further...

That is a good analysis on the review and the public opinion on it, anyway. You people will buy anything. :P
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requiem99
The Buddhist Killbot

Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 4:11 pm
Posts: 118
Location: British Indian Ocean Territory
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:02 am 
 

PhantomOTO wrote:
He also called Tank glam rock. :ugh:


He would.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 9141
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:09 pm 
 

Noktorn's latest Type O Negative review is a very stirring piece of work. It's a great piece of writing, actually, and makes me want to hear the album again after dismissing it on its initial release. http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=3534#29088

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Noktorn
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:31 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:18 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Noktorn's latest Type O Negative review is a very stirring piece of work. It's a great piece of writing, actually, and makes me want to hear the album again after dismissing it on its initial release. http://www.metal-archives.com/review.php?id=3534#29088


Thank you very much for your words. I really love that album and think it's incredibly unique. It's easily the best thing that Type O Negative ever turned out, and I really think the 'goth vs. gothic' distinction is deeply explored in it. While their work after it is fun, they probably should have broken up after its release.
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Peregrin
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Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:24 pm 
 

I was about to recommend it as well. I like the ending paragraph confirming that I'm far from alone in my observation that Type O Negative is the band to build their entire career upon misaimed fandom. Strangely, World Coming Down is the only Type O album I haven't heard yet but since I'm getting quite into doom metal recently I guess I need to own it as well.
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Metalich
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:49 pm 
 

I always thought that Steele, with World Coming Down, was desperately trying to drag goth back into his vision of it. But I never put the idea together that well, or quite saw the evolution of his prediction coming full circle. Very nice.

:thumbsup: to you Norkton. Nice review of the album (And a historical perspective on a sub-genre).
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Noktorn
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:30 pm 
 

Thanks again for the words.

'World Coming Down' isn't an album by Type O Negative: it's an album by Peter Steele and about him, and it actually works because you can feel his pain. Peter grew up in the NYHC scene and saw goth develop along with it, and it seems to describe, being released in 1999, the destruction of what 'goth' meant, and how it was turned into the commodity that it is today. Now there's no 'goth culture'; there's a goth 'scene' that's lost all of the beauty of what it had before. And I consider 'World Coming Down' the sort of bittersweet goodbye to the goth community he had grown up next to, if not in.

Steele never took 'goth' very seriously, as evidenced by the jokes on the band's earlier releases, but he took it seriously enough to love the community for a while. It's the same thing where we, as people who love heavy metal, regularly mock it or poke fun at it, but love it and still take it seriously. 'World Coming Down' was the only Type O Negative album devoid of any jokes, and it was a paean to the destruction of the goth community and its transformation into something safe and common. And I think that a lot of the album if Peter Steele attacking himself for doing his part to harm it, due to the stupid teenagers who misinterpreted him, as the people who misinterpret metalheads who mock their genre. The title track is as much about his life at the time as the goth scene:

Quote:
Yeah I know
That my world is coming down
Yeah I know
I know
I'm the one who brought it down
Brought it down
Bring it on down


Type O Negative now makes pretty good albums to make money. But, as Steele said himself later, 'the dream is dead', and it'll never be the same. But then again, I guess that was an inevitability of goth, Type O Negative, and Peter Steele himself, and the very inevitability is what 'World Coming Down' is about. Tragic yet beautiful, isn't it.
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Peregrin
Cricket Bat of Longinus

Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 3:09 am
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Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:10 am 
 

Noktorn wrote:
Steele never took 'goth' very seriously, as evidenced by the jokes on the band's earlier releases, but he took it seriously enough to love the community for a while. It's the same thing where we, as people who love heavy metal, regularly mock it or poke fun at it, but love it and still take it seriously.


I'm not so sure about metalheads regularly mocking it or poking fun at it... metal generally strikes me as a surprisingly irony-free genre, the only bands that somehow poke fun at it without for all intents and purposes resembling nothing more than a parody I can think of are Slough Feg and (you guess it) Type O Negative. Even then, Slough Feg seem to be doing something more serious than just poking fun at the genre - their lyrics (especially on Atavism) frequently relentlessly criticize some of the more idiosynchratic attitudes tha have become widespread among metalheads.

Come to think of it...

Quote:
Peter grew up in the NYHC scene and saw goth develop along with it, and it seems to describe, being released in 1999, the destruction of what 'goth' meant, and how it was turned into the commodity that it is today. Now there's no 'goth culture'; there's a goth 'scene' that's lost all of the beauty of what it had before.


... can it be argued that good chunks of Slough Feg's discography are to metal what World Coming Down is to goth rock?
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Noktorn
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 1713
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:23 am 
 

Peregrin wrote:
Noktorn wrote:
Quote:
Peter grew up in the NYHC scene and saw goth develop along with it, and it seems to describe, being released in 1999, the destruction of what 'goth' meant, and how it was turned into the commodity that it is today. Now there's no 'goth culture'; there's a goth 'scene' that's lost all of the beauty of what it had before.


... can it be argued that good chunks of Slough Feg's discography are to metal what World Coming Down is to goth rock?


Perhaps; I'm not very well acquainted at all with Slough Feg's work, though I like what I've heard. I'll have to look into it further.
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Sean16
Moody Tabulator of Torn Hymens

Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 11:03 am
Posts: 317
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:11 pm 
 

Noktorn wrote:
'World Coming Down' was the only Type O Negative album devoid of any jokes,



Hum... Skip It is an obvious joke.
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All I know is, it would be good if it didn't suck so much.

I am the one lost Child, in this mediocrity.

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