Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
odinsweeping
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:21 pm
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:49 pm 
 

song structures are one of the tough concepts for me to go beyond.

we can say that mainstream metal (metallica, sodom etc.) has a relatively simple song structure.

for post-black metal and blackgaze things are different and I truly struggle to figure out the song structure. and that is the music i want to make. think of alcest as example.

what do you suggest for song structure topic when songwriting? Which ways should be followed, are there standardized song structure combinations? etc.

Top
 Profile  
coupdebleus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:11 pm
Posts: 81
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:29 pm 
 

In a way, simple post-X genre structures can be compared to the classical sonata form. It can be presented like this:

Intro
Theme A
Theme B (may be a diversion/variation on A)
Theme B loops and builds tension
Fake/averted/deceptive resolution that doesn't quite go to A
Optional chill/ambient section for respite
Theme B loops and builds tension again, even moreso than before
Finally resolves back to A in that wall of noisy bliss
Coda/outro

With as many variations on that as one can come up with. But then, it's a really broad genre, others go with the typical pop/rock form, while some prefer jazz-like structures. If you want, post a couple of examples and I'll help you identify their sections.
_________________
Hellige - Black/Doom Metal | New LP Camino de agua coming out on 10/10/21
Now on instagram too!

Top
 Profile  
odinsweeping
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:21 pm
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:58 pm 
 

This was helpful, thanks! Then, it would be great to understand these two's structures:

Karg - Tod, wo bleibt dein Freiden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f_aNkC8JQc
Ellende - Ballade Auf Den Tod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdGUFIha-w

coupdebleus wrote:
In a way, simple post-X genre structures can be compared to the classical sonata form. It can be presented like this:

Intro
Theme A
Theme B (may be a diversion/variation on A)
Theme B loops and builds tension
Fake/averted/deceptive resolution that doesn't quite go to A
Optional chill/ambient section for respite
Theme B loops and builds tension again, even moreso than before
Finally resolves back to A in that wall of noisy bliss
Coda/outro

With as many variations on that as one can come up with. But then, it's a really broad genre, others go with the typical pop/rock form, while some prefer jazz-like structures. If you want, post a couple of examples and I'll help you identify their sections.

Top
 Profile  
Jabawock
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:31 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:55 am 
 

I play post-black, and here's a typical song structure I tend to use (very similar to the previous answer) :

- Riff 1
- Riff 2
- Riff 1
- Riff 2, possibly with a variation
- some kind of break, based on a different riff
- long build-up of this break riff in a crescendo
- back to Riff 1 or 2 (the strongest of the two)

I don't decide on these structures consciously, but it tends to be the result when incrementally building the song. In practice, you start with some riffs that you have, trying to piece them together. Each time you can ask yourself "what would I like to hear after this, if this was not my song?". That's how it works for me
_________________
Soul Dissolution (Atmospheric Post-Black Metal)
Marche Funèbre (Death/Doom Metal)
Viridian Flame Records

Top
 Profile  
narsilianshard
Veteran

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:22 pm
Posts: 2810
Location: PDX
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:57 pm 
 

Here are some general guidelines my band likes to follow:

* Don't be predictable: Verse Chorus Verse Bridge Chorus works for pop and traditional metal, not extreme metal
* Make sure it flows: Sudden time/tempo/key changes can be great, but having too many usually hurts the song
* Repeat your strong parts: Like Jabawock said, bringing back a strong riff/melody is a great idea. It gives fans something to grab on to and remember
* Not every song needs an intro or outro: Starting or ending suddenly helps keep listeners on their toes
* Even tiny changes go a long way: Little things like a different beat over the same riff help prevent the listener from getting bored

I like to listen to songs I like and map things out, so I recommend that as an exercise. You'll be surprised at how some songs are much more complicated than they seem!

Top
 Profile  
jackies_eclaire
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:11 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Washington, DC, USA
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:11 am 
 

A lot of bands take the traditional ABABCB or pop type structure but switch some things around or add more sections, For instance, ABACB or ABCABCDC or ABCADBEBA

So one example could be;

A- a main riff that serves as a heavy grounding for the song, similar to a chorus
B- a verse section, which can be anything you want, as long as you can fit words over it (leaving just the bass and drums to play the main riff works well)
C- a chorus; maybe a variation on the main riff or a sort of turnaround with some kind of hook, often the most melodic part of the song
A- main riff again, maybe with a solo or some other slight change
D- either a heavy breakdown or a chill section works well here, depending on the style- or both, having an ambient break turn into a heavy breakdown
C- repeat your chorus, maybe even twice

You could end the song there, or repeat the A section again. That's just one example.

I like to think of things in chunks, and with an overall dynamic arc rather than things flowing gridlike section to section. Think of what story you're trying to tell- do you want to start out strong or build up to something big? Do you want stark contrast between your verses and choruses, or do you want them to blend together and just add variation with a bridge? Any manner of combinations of sections can work so long as your story is told effectively.
_________________
Löded Diper is trve kvlt

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group