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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 1:35 am 
 

Brief description of music I have written:

Blackened Death Metal that is really fast and somewhat technical.

Influences:

Genres:
1. Old School Death Metal (late 80's and early 90's)
2. 80’s and 90’s Black Metal (the international scene. Norwegian BM minus Mayhem is boring)
3. 1980's Thrash Metal (in particular the Big Three of German thrash)
4. along with a bit of Doom metal (Sleep – Jerusalem album mix) and proto-punk (1960’s and 70’s) elements thrown into the mix.
Bands:
Morbid Angel, Impaled Nazarene, Sarcofago, Angelcorpse, Enthroned, Dark Funeral, Dissection, Deicide, Opprobrium, Mayhem, Sacramentum, Necrophobic, Kreator, Bornholm, Malevolent Creation, Suffocation, Disgorge, Sodom, Amorphis, Ancient Rites, Venom, Razor, Varathron, In Flames, Motörhead , Jungle Rot, Repulsion, Assuck, Extreme Noise Terror, Bolt Thrower, The Stooges, MC5, Blue Cheer, Sleep

Issue:

The few people who I do end up meeting in person after some correspondence online do not have any familiarity with my influences, are not capable of playing fast and are certainly not capable of playing my music – even after many attempts on my part to teach them how.

Main question:

Anyone here know why I'm having trouble finding people who are proficient on their instruments and who like the kind of metal I like? I would've thought that since I'm in a really big city there should be at any given moment at least a few qualified people out there looking at Craigslist and Facebook group pages who would see and reply to my ad. An ad which has been reposted consistently on a regular weekly basis since this May.

Is the music that I like really that niche to the point that there may only be like 10 people out of the 5-7 million people in the metro area of the city (including suburbs) that I live in that like my kind of music and who are also proficient on their instruments? If these people exist, what are they doing? I certainly haven't heard of any local bands that meet my stylistic expectations so these people are probably not in bands. Are these people just content with being bedroom musicians as many Black Metal enthusiasts seem to be?

Probably incoherent ranting essay, proceed with caution. It felt good to let it all out:

When I Googled this question of mine a lot of the results that came back talked about how in-real-life avenues were far superior for meeting likeminded musicians. Why would this be so? I mean you would think there should be countless super proficient musician out there with no social skills who treat online outlets like Craigslist as their only means of finding other musicians to play with (because they're too busy practicing in their basements. At least that is what describes myself as for the past several years before I got really serious about wanting to play my music live I was content with just being a composer). I personally call bullshit on shows being a great idea to meet musicians. I was just at a Deicide show (one of my biggest influences) and everyone there that I happened to speak to casually in various circumstances (like waiting in merch line) were barely able to string together coherent thoughts. They were really really dumb (Drugs? Drunk? Burned out?). It was scary and depressing. How would a serious musician navigate that kind of landscape? Regarding shows with local bands, I don't see how this would help either as every local band in my area is some kind of death metal ranging from core, slam, and just plain boring and generic, but of course very rarely anything that fast or technical or exciting. I doubt there would be very proficient musicians who can play fast at those shows given the lackluster laughably bad bands.

It's extremely depressing how everyone I meet off of all the various online platforms I use, such as Craigslist, is always the same type of person who is unfamiliar with classic OSDM (late 80's and early 90's), the international (not just one song from Mayhem or Immortal's polished eras) black metal scene of the 80's and 90's, 80's thrash (in particular the three German thrash bands), and how Venom are in every way the fathers of everything that I just mentioned. The people I meet are always Megadeth this or Pantera that. Five Finger Death Punch this or Mastodon that...along with every kind of core metal and groove metal variation you can think of. If they mention Metallica they of course are talking about 90's Metallica and if anything from 80's Metallica is mentioned they speak only of And Justice for All. I then typically excitedly mention the Kill Em All album asking them about it and time and time again they always have absolutely no familiarity at all with it. It's also depressing how some of the few people I met that could play a little bit aggressively, fast and technical were usually always coming from a “false/fake” metal background. For example I met one guy who came from a core metal background who could play a kind of fast Suffocation type Death Metal, but I really hated his style as the “core” influences were still audibly infecting his riffage. By the way, his riffage sounded nothing like “Infecting the Crypts” despite claiming Suffocation as an influence. The guy explained to me that he got into metal through metalcore and learned to play guitar through that gateway style before getting into the more “real” Metal Archive approved Death Metal fare, but he still hated most anything old or classic like OSDM of course. I'm proud to say that though I had my gateway to metal/rock phase initiated by Nu Metal way back when I was in elementary school I slowly but surely branched out as I got older into classic rock before eventually getting into Motorhead and Venom before eventually getting into all the old classic extreme stuff. As I transitioned into all the extreme stuff of the 80's and 90's I always steered completely clear of core stuff that was popular at that time in the 2010's as well as any new album releases from old school extreme metal bands whose formation predated the 2000's.

By the time I picked up a guitar, I had long since completely moved on from Nu Metal so thankfully such false metal rubbish never had a chance to corrupt my style. I think that is a very important dichotomy I just touched upon. There are those metalhead musicians that have one foot in the mainstream “false metal-lite” styles and another foot in some of the more polished trendy Metal Archive metal or old mainstream stuff like Megadeth or Pantera. These people sadly make up the overwhelming vast majority of metalheads out there. Then there are those metalheads like me and many on this website that absolutely do not like any of the mainstream styles and instead like the kinds of extreme metal that have a direct evolutionary link with the aesthetics that Venom established, are aware of this and are appreciative of this (in other words, they like Venom). A Metal Archive user that I happened to meet in person way back (met him by chance and he actually played a part in getting me into real extreme metal too) told me that anything extreme can be linked back to Venom - anything that can't be is probably “faking” it as he put it. That statement actually reminds me of a quote from a music journalist who said in a documentary about the Stooges' Raw Power album that “I don't think that I've met anyone who's been in a rock band that hasn't been influenced by them [the Stooges]...in a rock band that I would rate anyway.” These statements precisely sum up how I feel about these bands that these musicians I meet off of internet are into.

There is also an “image/attitude” dichotomy between the bands I despise, and that everyone else seems to like, and the one's I like. Instead of having lyrics about being a tough guy whose soul is raging or being faux “intellectual” with the core/djent nonsense you have with the bands I like epic, spiritual, Viking, Satanic, pagan, cultural, occult, mythical and historical based lyrics. With many of the people I meet I often try to talk to them excitedly about how the attitude of my music draws a lot from the “spiritual” aspect I described and they just don't get it or appreciate it. “Spiritual” that is along the lines of how Trey Azagthoth talked about how Morbid Angel's music circa Altars of Madness era was spiritual and how also former Morbid Angel guitarist Richard Brunelle said the music was basically the soundtrack of “conjuring up spirits.”

Everyone I meet online is also obsessed with anything new. All the latest trends are the rage with them. And what is with it with this obsession with “relevancy”? I'm going to use Morbid Angel as an example here: I don't care if Morbid Angel had countless releases after Covenant. All of their best stuff was released on the Altars of Madness album and that is what I listen to almost everyday and heavily informs my songwriting and riffage. Yet you people here, sadly even on this forum, are always yapping away nonstop about the latest 100th release from *insert name of classic extreme metal band from 80's and 90's*. I don't care about their 100th release and never have and likely never will. I like their old chaotic fast gritty raw albums that pushed the barriers of creativity and extremity. That is as good a source as any to mine for musical ideas. I use the term “relevancy” with such derision as people on here had to explain to me that the reason why Deicide is not that known on these forums is that they “haven't had a good album since Stench of Redemption and therefore they aren't relevant.” I just don't get it. Deicide's 90's discography blows 99% of anything coming out today out of the water. THAT is relevant. If more people were somehow made aware of this (maybe through a properly promoted re-release of old Deicide material), it would become relevant and maybe then we'll finally get some good extreme metal for once coming out that doesn't sound all sterile and bored sounding. Deicide performing live still outclasses acts many times younger than Glen Benton and Steve Asheim as evidenced by their performances on their currently ongoing 2022 Legion Anniversary Tour where they are playing the Legion album in full.

In conclusion, these people I meet from online can largely only play chugga chugga stuff at midtempo. Barely anyone can tremolo pick and if they do so it usually is done slowly and calmly and devoid of any primal aggression. No one likes to tremolo pick power chords, which is essentially a stylistic cornerstone of Black Metal. No one actually wants to play Black Metal for that matter period. No one can play in the way of the musical eras I mentioned regarding my influences earlier where the speeds were just furious, chaotic and insane and everything just sounded off the rails and barely held together. NO ONE I meet is capable or desirous of playing as fast as they can, which is the way I'd characterize the playing on the eras I mentioned for my influences, to the point where their forearms may tense up or they may simply have to stop playing after sweating profusely from exhaustion. Everyone is just playing comfortably in their midtempos. Do I have to be a normal person and dumb down my music or start playing groove metal because at least then I'll actually probably have more friends and have a chance of actually joining a band? This is what many of my friends frequently tell me.

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Hegogaezel
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:07 pm
Posts: 1
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:00 am 
 

Well, for starters, stating where you're located might help. As well as a way to contact you to further discuss this in private, because I'm interested in collaborating. Get in touch with me either on here or through email

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coupdebleus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:11 pm
Posts: 166
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:11 am 
 

Honestly, mate, it just sounds like you’re dense as fuck. I can play and know all the styles you mentioned, and am always up to jam with other musicians. If I saw a post like yours on my social media, I’d stay the fuck away. You need to focus on managing your social rather than your musical skills.

I’m not exaggerating, being a good bandmate is as important as being a good musician, and that requires practice. Join a band, learn how to work with people, and only then worry about branching out on your passion project.
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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:02 am 
 

coupdebleus wrote:
Honestly, mate, it just sounds like you’re dense as fuck. I can play and know all the styles you mentioned, and am always up to jam with other musicians. If I saw a post like yours on my social media, I’d stay the fuck away. You need to focus on managing your social rather than your musical skills.

I’m not exaggerating, being a good bandmate is as important as being a good musician, and that requires practice. Join a band, learn how to work with people, and only then worry about branching out on your passion project.


What do you mean by “dense” though? Obviously if you take into account my rant I’m extremely dense. But I of course don’t rant like that in my ad or in the way I correspond with people online or in person.

This is what my ad looks like:

”””
We are two guitarists currently looking for a drummer, vocalist and bassist to form a band around the original material that I’ve written. Our main goal is to perform the material live.

My material combines the older styles of Extreme Metal like:
1. Old School Death Metal (late 80's and early 90's)
2. 80’s and 90’s Black Metal
3. 1980's Thrash Metal
4. along with a bit of Doom metal (Sleep - Jerusalem) and proto-punk (1960’s and 70’s) elements thrown into the mix.

Here is the link to my music:

Here is a list of my influences:

Death/thrash/black metal influences:

Morbid Angel, Impaled Nazarene, Sarcofago, Angelcorpse, Enthroned, Dark Funeral, Dissection, Deicide, Opprobrium, Mayhem, Sacramentum, Necrophobic, Kreator, Bornholm, Malevolent Creation, Suffocation, Disgorge, Sodom, Amorphis, Ancient Rites, Venom, Razor, Varathron, In Flames, Motörhead , Jungle Rot, Repulsion, Assuck, Extreme Noise Terror, Bolt Thrower

Proto-punk influences: The Stooges, MC5, Blue Cheer

Doom Metal influence: Sleep (Jerusalem)

”””

Am I just listing too many bands and too many obscure subgenres and eras of music? I actually have been jamming with a guitarist, who really likes my stuff, and his drummer friend but they can’t play fast well at all and they know nothing of my influences. As they painfully struggled to play my material well I numerous times asked them if we could just slow it down because the fast parts were sounding really muddy and sloppy and then work our way up from there or if we should just play something else entirely that will sound better for us all and they wanted to stay the course and just learn my stuff their own way. I really don’t think my issue is my social skills or that I’m a dick. What do you think? Or do I need to accept their abilities and adapt my material accordingly? Or rather adapt the way I play my own riffs to the way that they are playing them?

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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
Posts: 1464
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 10:39 am 
 

honestly, it's mostly just that you play a very niche genre of music. i've been playing in bands for a while now, and in my area Craigslist is viewed as a last resort location. there arent a lot of musicians trawling that site, and those who are are even rarely playing extreme metal. your best bet really is in-person. shows, especially local bands, are a great way to meet musicians, or if nothing else, ingrain yourself in the music scene. i've had probably one success story with a Craigslist musician versus tens and tens of failures.

your ad sounds fine. maybe a bit overdeveloped but nothing that sends up warning signals. i think coupdebleus was too harsh but he raises a good point. being a bandmate involves balancing personal influences and desires with compromise and being chill. strong opinions can be good but can also lead to early exits of bandmates. elitism especially can put folks off. your post comes off very strong and a bit elitist. i'm not going speculate on what you're like as a real-life person based on two posts from you, but just keep that sort of thing in mind.

finding bandmates can be hard unless you live in a hotbed area for a particular style of music. keep your head up and dont stop grinding, you'll eventually figure it out.

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Hexenmacht46290
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:30 pm
Posts: 659
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:05 pm 
 

Like others said, meet musicians at local band’s shows. You’re looking for a drummer, which is the most difficult, and rare person to find. If you can find a metal/punk drummer, who likes Morbid Angel and Angelcorpse, and is willing to practice, and eventually get to the level of speed and precision you want.

Craigslist is probably a bad place, because it would be more for people playing more mainstream, making money, at tourist bars. Check local music shops, see if they have a bulletin board. Maybe you join someone else’s band, and in return, the drummer joins you band? At the very least, you can ask the shop if you can put your ad on there, which makes it more likely that extreme metal drummers would see it. Do you know any local bands, or what rehearsal studio they practice at? You can always ask if they know any drummers who could play your stuff. If you can find a grindcore drummer, that’s a good bet, for someone willing to play drums with aggression.
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coupdebleus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:11 pm
Posts: 166
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:27 pm 
 

Commisaur wrote:
What do you mean by “dense” though? Obviously if you take into account my rant I’m extremely dense. But I of course don’t rant like that in my ad or in the way I correspond with people online or in person.

Well, those were the vibes the og post gave, though I’ll take your word if you say you take a less intense approach in expressing yourself in real life.

With that being said, I do think your ad is wordy. Some points (take it how you may):

1. It’s good to bring up the styles you guys are playing in broad strokes, like OSDM and extreme metal. Don’t bring up bands, the noise to signal ratio goes to hell with that; either people will know what you’re talking about or they won't, a list is not going to change that. Avoid over-describing yourselves as well when it comes to genres, let the audios do the talking.

2. to form a band around the original material that I’ve written is off-putting, as it sounds like you just want unpaid session musicians. To write original material is more inviting, it makes one feel like it’s a group effort.


And yeah, just keep on grinding on the search and try to keep an open mind, you might find something different to your original idea developing into a cool project.
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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:02 pm 
 

Thanks everyone for the advice! I have a really good idea of what I should I be doing differently moving forward

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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:15 pm 
 

Hegogaezel wrote:
Well, for starters, stating where you're located might help. As well as a way to contact you to further discuss this in private, because I'm interested in collaborating. Get in touch with me either on here or through email


I just sent you a PM. Sorry I overlooked your message and am just now seeing it

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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2022 9:51 pm 
 

coupdebleus wrote:
Commisaur wrote:
What do you mean by “dense” though? Obviously if you take into account my rant I’m extremely dense. But I of course don’t rant like that in my ad or in the way I correspond with people online or in person.

Well, those were the vibes the og post gave, though I’ll take your word if you say you take a less intense approach in expressing yourself in real life.

With that being said, I do think your ad is wordy. Some points (take it how you may):

1. It’s good to bring up the styles you guys are playing in broad strokes, like OSDM and extreme metal. Don’t bring up bands, the noise to signal ratio goes to hell with that; either people will know what you’re talking about or they won't, a list is not going to change that. Avoid over-describing yourselves as well when it comes to genres, let the audios do the talking.

2. to form a band around the original material that I’ve written is off-putting, as it sounds like you just want unpaid session musicians. To write original material is more inviting, it makes one feel like it’s a group effort.


And yeah, just keep on grinding on the search and try to keep an open mind, you might find something different to your original idea developing into a cool project.


That's a good point you bring up regarding how its better for me to say "to form a band to write original material." I was partly using the wording of "to form a band around the original material I've written" because at one point I had a bassist and vocalist on board with my project. We rehearsed for several weeks and things were going good, but then COVID hit and I went into quarantine and the whole thing just fell apart. Anyways those two guys actually told me that they liked how I had essentially written everything for the band already. They liked how everything was ready to go and said that was preferable to having to come up with something from scratch together. So it was based on that positive feedback and the fact that I really want to play my material live that drove me to word my ads like that.

But I see what you mean completely because I think I may have missed two opportunities with musicians who both asked me over email if I was looking for bandmates or not. I think they wanted, like you said, for the whole thing to be more of a group effort

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Wrldeatr
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 320
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:17 am 
 

Well, yeah, you are looking for a combination of very specific and uncommon traits: highly skilled guitar player...who wants focus solely on playing fast stuff...and is willing to join your project--a project which frankly doesn't sound particularly interesting given your single-minded focus on speed and your close-mindedness. So you are looking for someone who is skilled but not talented, young and dumb, yet who has musical tastes of someone in his 50s. Young guitar players are listening to and playing what young people listen to. That's just how it is. A good guitar player, heck even a mediocre one, most likely has realized that speed matters shit, same goes for any guitar player who is older than 25.

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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:51 pm 
 

Wrldeatr wrote:
Well, yeah, you are looking for a combination of very specific and uncommon traits: highly skilled guitar player...who wants focus solely on playing fast stuff...and is willing to join your project--a project which frankly doesn't sound particularly interesting given your single-minded focus on speed and your close-mindedness. So you are looking for someone who is skilled but not talented, young and dumb, yet who has musical tastes of someone in his 50s. Young guitar players are listening to and playing what young people listen to. That's just how it is. A good guitar player, heck even a mediocre one, most likely has realized that speed matters shit, same goes for any guitar player who is older than 25.


My project is not single-mindedly focused on speed. It has fast blasting parts and slow breakdown parts and everything in between just like pretty much all my influences I listed. Suffocation's first full length release and Bolt Thrower's Realm of Chaos albums are two Old School Death Metal influences that contain the varying tempo types I just mentioned. My post really emphasized the fast tempo aspect of my project because there seems to be so few people out there that can play like that. Using Suffocation once again as an example: there are countless player's out there that are able to play the famous breakdown riff in “Liege of Inveracity,” but are unable to play anything else in that song. Likewise people struggle with the fast parts in my music, but are able to play the slow parts.

Isn't your screen name an abbreviation of “World Eater”? That is the name of one of Bolt Thrower's best songs and one of my favorite songs of all time.

And also there's countless young people out there that like the old stuff. I've seen Bolt Thrower, Deicide, Autopsy, Morbid Angel and countless other classic acts live and I would say a sizeable percentage of the concert attendees were in their 20's and 30's.

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Nocturnal_Evil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
Posts: 411
Location: The Summerlands
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:43 pm 
 

I'm gonna second the dude who said don't lead with "let's all play stuff I wrote". I did that once, and they didn't stick around long.

It might sound defeatist, but giving up on searching for other people and just learning all the instruments you need to and recording whatever you want after that may be the route to go. If you want a job done right, do it yourself. You'll become proficient at a bunch of instruments and not have to compromise with anyone on your vision.
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Commisaur
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:16 am
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:40 pm 
 

Nocturnal_Evil wrote:
I'm gonna second the dude who said don't lead with "let's all play stuff I wrote". I did that once, and they didn't stick around long.

It might sound defeatist, but giving up on searching for other people and just learning all the instruments you need to and recording whatever you want after that may be the route to go. If you want a job done right, do it yourself. You'll become proficient at a bunch of instruments and not have to compromise with anyone on your vision.


But what do you and everyone else here make of those bands where it is usually one guy in charge writing everything for the band? Every now and then I'll hear the statement "it's his band" used to describe certain bands, implying that basically there's one guy who writes all the music and makes all the stylistic decisions for how the band should look and sound overall. I heard this statement applied to many local bands that I've listened to as well.

Wasn't Death for example essentially Chuck Shuldiner's band by the time of Scream Bloody Gore album era?

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 13307
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:58 pm 
 

i have no problem with those bands. I've been part of those bands where I just am playing and been part of where it's a collective writing. just how it be sometimes.
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jackies_eclaire
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:11 pm
Posts: 45
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:08 am 
 

Join bands and collaborate first, then start your own band. If you want to lead a band, that requires connections with people who respect you and your creative output. To gain that, the best way is to give them some things that you've done in the past with other people, which shows that you can both simultaneously make good music and be a good bandmate.
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