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puggy
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:08 am
Posts: 79
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:13 am 
 

It's been a while since I've played an electric guitar... I've never really been much of a guitarist, but it looks like I'll have some time in the near future to get into it again, and I'd like to focus on metal guitar this time around.

What sort of gear would y'all recommend, on the cheap, to someone looking for an old school death metal sort of tone - particularly the chainsaw tone of Swedish death metal?
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Deathroll92
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:36 pm
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:33 am 
 

If you can afford it, get a Boss HM-2, though it's quite expensive now. You can also take its copy from Behringer, the HM300 model, which gets close to the swedish buzzsaw tone.
If you can't afford a valve amp like the 6505, which was used by Dismember if i'm not mistaken, or a JCM800/900 you can get a Peavey Bandit, I tried my HM-2 on it and it sounds pretty close.
And finally, for the guitar, you can take whatever you want, as long as it has a humbucker pickup on the bridge.
You can get all of this for less than 600 dollars I think, it depends if you buy the guitar/amp new or used.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:21 pm 
 

deathroll pretty much summed it up. esp if you want to sound like that buzzsaw. nothing besides those two pedals will give you that. The heads aren't all that important either.
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blasteroid
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:58 am
Posts: 10
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:40 pm 
 

Don't waste your money for a HM-300. I've owned one of them and I sold it after comparison between HM-2. No regrets. It has very nasty, trebly tone when cranked and sounds really nasal, with a thin bass. I know that HM-2 in US is not cheap (in Poland where I live the prices are ridicolouslosly low - I bought mine first for equivalency of 70$, MIJ ofc, and second for only 30$ (!). Not everyone knows about value of it here). You should try also old Peavey Bandit series (avoid new - it sucks), Studio, Marshall Valvestate if you're on low budget. Old Swedish bands used solid state amps to record their first albums (for example - Entombed - Left Hand Path on Peavey Studio, Clandestine - Bandit). Having a valve monster is not neccessary as may you think. Also, very important thing about swedeath tone is multitracking. Some of early records was done using a HM-2 for left and right panned guitar track and Boss DS-1 Distortion for central-panned. That was the way how were recorded first Entombed and also Carnage LPs.

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puggy
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:08 am
Posts: 79
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:53 pm 
 

Coincidentally, I just found an HM-2 for $40 on my local Craigslist, alongside a $35 MT-2 (copy of the HM-2, right?)... seems like a bargain.

I am definitely a n00b to this, so I may be way off here - but in amps with built-in effects, does using a pedal matter all that much? When using pedals, does amp matter all that much? The last amp I used, a while ago, was a small, 15 watt Line 6 Spider (II or III, I think), and I recall, at the time, thinking that it could work pretty well on its own.

Was I wrong there? What's everything I really need to get a decent, cheap SDM sound, together?
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:41 pm 
 

Line 6 will not like your pedal. Line 6 is terrible for everything.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:02 am 
 

Lots of "metal" pedals are basically just some kind of regular distortion, generally in an effort to emulate the tone of an overdriven tube amp. Some succeed better than others.

The HM-2 is an entirely different beast. I guess in theory it's supposed to sound like some sort of normal distortion but in the end it has that swedeath chainsaw tone that no amp can create on its own. I suggest listening to some old Carnage, Entombed and Dismember albums to decide if that's a tone you're interested in using because the pedal can't really do much else.

I agree that the Behringer clone version is a bit more trebly than the Boss and doesn't quite sound as good, but you can dial back the treble a bit and boost the bass and low-mids and get it pretty damn close.
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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:10 pm 
 

Agree about the Behringer version. Don't own one but tried it before and you can pretty much get the LHP sound. A little less chunky palm-mutes but you can just compensate with your playing. It's only very slightly different.
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Infinite_Thought
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:47 am
Posts: 6
Location: china
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:42 pm 
 

Digitech death metal pedal and a pawn shop practice amp. Next question?

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ShaolinLambKiller
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:16 pm 
 

No idiot, Goddamn no. No one is asking for your advice because it's not worth you even typing out.
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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 1:59 am 
 

puggy wrote:
Coincidentally, I just found an HM-2 for $40 on my local Craigslist, alongside a $35 MT-2 (copy of the HM-2, right?)


No, not at all. The HM-2 and MT-2 are completely different Boss distortion pedals, even they're both aiming at playing metal.

To sum things up:
HM-2 = for death metal
MT-2 = for black metal
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josephbailey
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:05 pm
Posts: 1
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:57 am 
 

I love old school death metal tones, and know that many of the amps these bands used in the day were cheap like me.

click through the next post


Last edited by josephbailey on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dragunov
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 6:34 pm
Posts: 2670
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:05 pm 
 

High gain amp of any kind + linear power boost pedal is also a simple way to get a big, distorted guitar sound, though the tone options will be wider if using a tube amp.
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puggy
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:08 am
Posts: 79
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:06 am 
 

Alright, so, I've been spending much of the past few weeks listening to some old SDM albums (and a lot of HM-2 worshiping SDM revivalist bands, actually...). With exams over, I have a lot of free time on my hands right now, so I figured it was a good time to start selling a lot of my old crap to pay for some new gear.

At a budget of under $350, I've figured out that I can afford, used, a Peavey Bandit (Vypyr if I'm unlucky) amp, a fixed-bridge model from the Ibanez RG series, and a Boss HM-2 pedal. From what I've seen, this sort of setup can produce a pretty decent SDM tone for the price.

The last Boss HM-2 pedal that I've come across on Craigslist is selling for the fantastic price of $25. That said, it's the Taiwanese mode, which I've heard some very bad things about. Do y'all think it'd be better to just hop on this, buy a Behringer HM300 instead, or just wait until a Japanese model comes up for a decent price?

And what do y'all think of the Peavey Vypyr (as opposed to the Bandit) amp, at least for practice purposes?
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Last edited by puggy on Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 13155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:49 pm 
 

Well the taiwanese model isn't utter shit, it's just not as good as the japanese version but for 25 bucks you really aren't going wrong. Personally i'd buy it.
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Marras
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:21 am
Posts: 74
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:52 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
Lots of "metal" pedals are basically just some kind of regular distortion, generally in an effort to emulate the tone of an overdriven tube amp. Some succeed better than others.

The HM-2 is an entirely different beast. I guess in theory it's supposed to sound like some sort of normal distortion but in the end it has that swedeath chainsaw tone that no amp can create on its own.


Yeah. When other pedals (and amps) clip only the peaks of the signal, HM-2 clips it also in the middle, in the zero crossing. Like that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_distortion
One could theorize, that it's purpose was to lessen the noise from high gain pedal. In addition of getting more distortion, that kind of clipping also acts as a very harsh noise gate. It also makes the distortion pot kinda non-linear; when there's less gain, the signal is smaller and more of it gets clipped from that crossover distortion.

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puggy
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:08 am
Posts: 79
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:51 pm 
 

Picked up the HM-2. The deal was too good to pass over.

I'm still in need of a new amp and electric guitar, though. As mentioned above, right now, I'm looking for a Peavey amp - either a Bandit (someone above said I should stick the old models... that'd be 65 or 75, and not 112, right?) or Vypyr, probably. No one above has mentioned the Vypyr, but judging from YT clips I've seen of the HM-2 and HM300 being played on it, it didn't sound all that bad to me. Does anyone have any experience with this amp?
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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 3131
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:11 pm 
 

Whoever recommended the digitech death metal, no goddammit no. :nono:

Any old amp will do since you plan to run the HM-2 through the clean channel anyway. Just try to get something that isn't super-tiny so you can at least hear more of yourself. I like the Nux Frontline 15, the Ibanez IBZ-15GR, and the LG-15. Those are decent enough to run a pedal through without much discolouration and won't cost very much. But the Peaveys are fine too if you want to fork out more.

As for a guitar, get something you can beat up while playing chunky OSDM riffs and tremolo lines. Depending on your budget, I would just recommend a cheaper Jackson, especially the JS series. JS11, JS12, etc. Jackson stock pickups tend to be a tad better than the stock pickups on most other budget level guitars (INF on Ibanez, or the stock alnicos on Epiphones).

tl;dr: Nux Frontline 15 and Jackson JS11. Then learn every song off Into The Grave and Realm Of Chaos.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 13155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:00 pm 
 

I personally like the older cheap BC Richs. the bronze era ones. Everything under this band was recorded with the HM2 pedal and using a BR Rich Warlock, sometimes paired with other guitars. Various amps and heads as I played around more with each recording session

http://draugdeathmetal.bandcamp.com/alb ... -catacombs

That might help you kinda decide on a guitar maybe and kinda show it doesn't make a huge difference in the amps used.
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puggy
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:08 am
Posts: 79
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:03 am 
 

Peavey Vypyr 15 and a Jackson JS30DKT with a fixed bridge on the way from GC. Definitely gotta give thanks to some of y'all in this thread. Sent me in the right direction in terms of research. I have a lot more experience trying out Ibanez's stuff than Jackson's, for instance, but it seems that Jackson guitars have a lot of characteristics I like about Ibanez - jumbo frets, thin neck, etc.

Cranking up Left Hand Path to celebrate.
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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:58 am 
 

Good buys :) Jackson's are about as comfortable as Ibanezs' to me anyway. A compound radius neck instead of a C/D but both are pretty easy to play anyway.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:32 pm 
 

Good choice, I def enjoy Jacksons more than Ibanez
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http://www.cavepaints.com <--Horrid art and musics.
http://www.facebook.com/MaulerCustomCabs <--- huge heavy/loud boxes I build.
http://speedritualrecords.storenvy.com/ Check out my music here

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puggy
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:08 am
Posts: 79
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:30 am 
 

So yeah, I'm getting some pretty good tones out of this. Cash well-spent. Cranking out some LHP-era Entombed stuff.

But, damn, is there any way to avoid that terrible fret buzz that seems to come with downtuning?
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Apteronotus
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 958
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:24 am 
 

puggy wrote:
But, damn, is there any way to avoid that terrible fret buzz that seems to come with downtuning?


What gauge strings are you using and what are you tuning to?
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somefella
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:09 pm 
 

Yes there is. Send it for a setup.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:32 pm 
 

Thicker strings and have it set up properly for your tuning. Fret buzz is not a common thing if you did that correctly. If you have it and did neither then you failed.
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somnambulist fortress
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:27 pm
Posts: 2
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:01 pm 
 

Keep in mind finding your own tone is key to writing and playing unique material, if you enjoy covers or playing/learning others music and styles that is a different story.
Either way influence is a definite factor.

1st
- Fender amps are awesome, not necessarily higher end models either. They're awesome for pedal stacking, they handle many different types very well.
- They are versatile in many different ways, an amp that doesn't try to give you a tone, you shape your tone.
- example: speakers for stereo's and such have eq built in and they work with tone shaping much like an active pickup (marshall, orange, mesa boogie, *fender high end models*, etc).
Studio monitors are not tone defined and is more about "organic" sound giving you the ability to truly hear how you're shaping your sound (basic fender amps and others like it).
- I recommend 10inch speakers as opposed to 12inch, 12's are great for live / band practice / sessions yet 10's are perfect for studio.
- Amp wattage is unimportant, what is important is how does it sound: mid's, high's and low's - at low volume and at high volume - compare.
- Test between open and closed back on your amp combo or cab; you can choose full open, full closed or anywhere in between.
This will change the sound properties of your amp, will be more important than you think.

2nd
a good recording mic and recording space / placement of amp and mic

3rd
I recommend tweaking guitar / switching effects / tweaking effects / pickups / strings / tuning / etc, after finding your favorite amp.

Some of the best metal albums were recorded at the beginning of their career, more often than not guitars were not modded or high end models, effects were expensive yet sacrificing money for various equipment purchases to get a better amp was crucial so lots of attention went into that. By better I mean for playing live and practicing - needing more than one speaker on cab. Interesting to note: black metal is noted for using cheap gear yet what we forget, because their influential styles used cheap gear it made it possible for these people to harness that opportunity

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Cynical
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:16 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:40 pm 
 

This is a three year old thread, I'm pretty sure the OP already has made his purchasing decisions.
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