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servantdagon
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:17 am
Posts: 22
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:58 pm 
 

As the title says, I'm about to invest in some cymbals to put together a decent to good quality drum kit for playing sludge and death-doom in the next few months. I haven't had a kit in years, long before aspiring to play metal, but I've been practicing double-bass pedal techniques with a bass practice pad and an accompanying snare practice pad.

That being said, what are the essential cymbals (crash/es, ride/s, china, hi-hat) and sizes you play with, what brand/s, and any other information you may think helpful for me? Also, what cymbals should I stay away from? I'd like to say price isn't an issue, however I do writhe a little at the thought of dropping $300 on a single cymbal, but I digress. I am concerned with sound quality (and yes I know sound heard on recordings is produced with triggers and lots of post-production, etc, so I know better than to expect exact mimicry). I am also concerned about longevity/lifespan. If it matters at all, I play 2b sticks.

Thanks in advance for the input.

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Insin
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:16 am
Posts: 44
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:27 pm 
 

I would go with larger crash cymbals, or even crash-rides for the style. My personal favorite cymbal that I've had is a 16" ZHT Zildjian rock crash. Getting a full box set might be something to consider, though the best thing to do is just to go into a Guitar Center (often they have an entire room dedicated solely to cymbals) or an equivalent store, and test them out to hear how all of them sound.

A china cymbal is non-essential. I've never used one, for metal and non-metal alike, and it's rarely been an issue. If you start playing and feel like your kit is lacking without it, then sure, go for it. Brand isn't especially important although I'm happy with my Zildjian and Meinl cymbals. Sabian is also pretty good though I don't have as much experience with it.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 13155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:42 pm 
 

i second the crash rides. actually for 3 of my crashes they are just cheaper rides. I also play very heavy and tend to break regular crashes pretty quickly and easily.

China I don't think is non essential. I'm not saying it's necessary. But I actively use it in almost every song I play. Then again I don't just randomly throw shit together on my kit thinking I might need it. I added shit to my kit as I felt it was necessary to do what I like and feel I have enough coloring choices for my playing. So I have a set up your normal hihats(14in) and ride(22in). then for my crashes I have 4 of various sizes and sounds and decay(20, 18, 20, 16) china (16in) and then 2 splashes(6 & 8) that is one turned up on the other. if anything that's the thing I don't utilize as much.
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http://www.cavepaints.com <--Horrid art and musics.
http://www.facebook.com/MaulerCustomCabs <--- huge heavy/loud boxes I build.
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servantdagon
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:17 am
Posts: 22
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:16 pm 
 

Thanks for the advice so far. I think I have selected three options that I would like to include. I welcome your feedback on them. Let me preface this by saying they have these in stock at my local Guitar Center and plan to go give them a personal demo.

1) Paiste 2002 Ride 24in. From the sound samples I've heard it gives a pleasant sound when crashed and ridden, though not a great bell sound from what I've heard.

2) Zildjian K Custom Dark Crash 20in. Also heard very pleasant sound files of this one.

3) Zildjian K Dark hi hat pair 14in. I've thought about looking at bigger sizes, but they seem to be unavailable in the K Dark series ( I should also mention these are not in stock locally).

I welcome further feedback and suggestions concerning these or other cymbals

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Apteronotus
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 958
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:59 pm 
 

Bring a notepad (or use an app or whatever) with you to quickly jot down what you like/dislike about each cymbal and go from there. You can listen to different bands that have the same or similar gear or seek out bands with particular tones you like. You can even check out ShaolinLambKiller's music, dude has a lot of nice tones, but keep in mind he play hard enough to break both hi-hats simultaneously.
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Insin
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:16 am
Posts: 44
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:14 pm 
 

Zildjian K Custom Darks are great, forgot to mention those because I don't actually own any. I remember being very fond of the crash (though it was more of a standard size, not 20in), and the rides to a lesser extent (yeah, not a great bell sound with those).

14" is standard for a hi hat, you'd probably be best settling for that size.
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Eternity Opens - eclectic/experimental metal in the form of confusing concept albums and corpse paint photoshoots
Pale Stars - Ambient/black metal about SPACE
Transpirations - Music for chillin'

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servantdagon
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:17 am
Posts: 22
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:48 pm 
 

Last night I went to GC and banged around on what they had. I'm really fond of the Zildjian K Custom Dark crashes I hit, particularly the contrast that 17" and 19" offered. I wasn't too enamored with the Paiste 2002 24" ride. The fellow working there suggested I check out a Zildjian K Light ride, but he didn't have one for me to try. There was also a Sabian AA ride that had a mediocre ride sound, but a beautiful bell ride sound.

He also said two things that surprised me:

1) Always buy the protection plan for the Zildjian K's. He suggested the 2 year plan, and not the 3 year, because it was more affordable. He said the 3 year was just GC trying to gouge ya, which made me think he actually cared about my experience and wasn't trying to elicit money from me.

2) He said that thicker cymbals crack more than thinner ones. Something about the thinner ones flexing more, and the rigidity of the thicker ones made them more conducive to cracking.

I'm interested to hear what others might have to say about this. Thanks again for all the input.

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Apteronotus
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 958
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:47 am 
 

I can't remember and the gc website wasn't super clear, but other than accidentally dropping a cymbal, what coverage does the protection plan get you that the manufacturer's warranty doesn't?
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servantdagon
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:17 am
Posts: 22
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:58 am 
 

The way the guy talked it covered dropping, stepping on, etc. pretty much comprehensive? Maybe it was supposed to be a buddy-hook up kind of thing? He was super friendly so it was hard to tell what the actual policy was, but I walked away understanding that any crack or catastrophic damage was covered.

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Padan_Fain
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 7:47 pm
Posts: 15
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:34 pm 
 

For crashes, I use a mix of Zildjian A Custom and Sabian AAX, especially the Xplosions varying sizes from 15-18". I've used the same ride for over 20 years, a 20" A Zildjian Medium ride. Has a really nice bell and some good wash that never gets out of control. I also have a 20" Sabian XS20 ride that sounds very close to the Zildjian with a little less wash. I've used some high end splashes over the years, but currently am using some Wuhans that I really love that are dirt cheap new, like $30 or so. I usually go with 2 Chinas, one a 22" A Zildjian and the other usually a 16 or 18. Wuhans can be nice chinas and again, really cheap, but really need to be hit before buying them as their sound varies widely. For hats, I usually go with either Sabian AA Flat Hats or Zildjian A New Beats, though a friend has a set of Quick Beats that I always loved as well. Overall, I tend to prefer the brighter tones of the Zildjian A/ACustom and Sabian AA/AAX over the darker sound of Ks and HHs respectively.

All that said, the best advice I can give is to buy locally if possible so you can compare all the sounds before you buy and most places won't have a problem letting you bring in a couple of your own cymbals to help match sounds if you ask nicely. If price becomes an issue, Sabian's SR2 line can have some great deals, but should really be checked out in person. I own a couple and am very happy with them.

For durability, he was spot on about thicker vs. thinner cymbals. Also, thinner cymbals will open up easier and don't need to be struck as hard. Angling your crashes toward you slightly as opposed to totally flat can help as well so that you're not hitting dead on the edge. Of course, as with anything, working on proper technique helps here too.

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servantdagon
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:17 am
Posts: 22
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:45 pm 
 

Thanks again for all the input. I have recently made some purchases and currently have the following cymbals on my kit:
-19” Zildjian K Dark Thin Crash (Used from Guitar Center)
-17” Zildjian K Dark Thin Crash (Used from GC)
-14” Zildjian K Dark Hi Hats (Used from GC)
-20” Zildjian A ride (I bought this off of Craigslist after reading Padan_Fain’s recommendation. The fellow said he has had it for decades.)
Those ought to keep my busy for a while. I do have an empty extra splash-cymbal arm that I’m itching to fill soon though.

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 13155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:47 pm 
 

that should be a very nice set up.

Apteronotus: :lol: Though you are right.
_________________
A bunch of mp3s is not a collection of anything.
http://www.cavepaints.com <--Horrid art and musics.
http://www.facebook.com/MaulerCustomCabs <--- huge heavy/loud boxes I build.
http://speedritualrecords.storenvy.com/ Check out my music here

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