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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 2325
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 8:11 am 
 

I've been playing for a while but have never been able to achieve anything I would call a "good" guitar tone.
I don't know much about guitars or gear, and there just seems to be so many things that can be changed, and I honestly don't have much of an idea of where even to start.
Maybe I'm overlooking something obvious, which is the reason I'm starting this thread.

I mainly play thrashy punk/hardcore, so I'm generally looking for a thick and heavy tone more than clear and bright. Think closer to Nasum than to Dream Theater.


Instrument:
Gibson Flying V - with Seymour Duncan pickups
Usually stringed with Daddario EXL145 or 148
Tuned to C-standard

Amp:
Laney Ironheart IRT120H (120w)
Usually through an Orange, Peavy or Marshall 4x12

Signal chain:
1. Boss TU-3 - tuner
2. Behringer NR300 - noise reducer
3. Behringer TO800 - vintage tube overdrive
4. ProCo Rat - distortion
All plugged into the front of the amp. But honestly I barely use the TO800 and Rat because I can't get it to sound any good.

I'm hoping someone can tell me that I'm just an idiot and need to do XYZ! So far turning knobs hasn't done much.
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~Guest 1730521
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2022 1:59 pm
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 6:01 pm 
 

Damn, you're using expensive as fuck gear :lol:

Spoiler: show
Image

This is the amp I use to get a great tone lmao. There's one volume knob, and I just turn that shit up and play. My point is: you can definitely make it work with what you have, just turn the knobs!

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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1618
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2022 10:48 pm 
 

Yeah, good lord. That's quite the setup. Idiot-proof. But I don't know what it sounds like right now, see. Could you put up a recording or something?

About the pedals and the amp: the "Vintage Tube Overdrive", like many Behringer products, is a knock-off of a more well known product, in this case the Ibanez Tube Screamer. In a metal setting, pedals of that nature are never used for distortion. They are essentially just set to add a bit of treble bite and drive the level slightly, not add any real overdrive or distortion. This, coupled with the fact that Tube Screamer-like pedals suck away a lot of low frequencies, makes the amplified distorted sound coming from the amp "tighter". That is, less woofy bass and more pronounced pick noise. The Rat pedal is a full-blown distortion pedal, though, and pedals of its nature work better often in the effects loop. So try putting the Rat in the effects loop of the amplifier instead of in front of it. But you shouldn't even need a distortion pedal - that amp is very capable of doing a distortion sound. And an excellent one too.
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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 2325
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:02 am 
 

Spiral Architect 2 wrote:
Damn, you're using expensive as fuck gear :lol:



I got most of it relatively cheap over the years, and the cabs are just for common use at our rehearsal space, so they aren't mine (unfortunately!)

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
Yeah, good lord. That's quite the setup. Idiot-proof. But I don't know what it sounds like right now, see. Could you put up a recording or something?


It should be idiot proof right? But then what does that make me... hmmm
I actually didn't even think to record some sound - Next time I'm at the rehearsal space I'll try to record something.

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
About the pedals and the amp: the "Vintage Tube Overdrive", like many Behringer products, is a knock-off of a more well known product, in this case the Ibanez Tube Screamer. In a metal setting, pedals of that nature are never used for distortion. They are essentially just set to add a bit of treble bite and drive the level slightly, not add any real overdrive or distortion. This, coupled with the fact that Tube Screamer-like pedals suck away a lot of low frequencies, makes the amplified distorted sound coming from the amp "tighter". That is, less woofy bass and more pronounced pick noise. The Rat pedal is a full-blown distortion pedal, though, and pedals of its nature work better often in the effects loop. So try putting the Rat in the effects loop of the amplifier instead of in front of it. But you shouldn't even need a distortion pedal - that amp is very capable of doing a distortion sound. And an excellent one too.


I'll definitely try putting in the fx loop next time and see if that makes a difference. You might be right about the tube screamer clone, I only got it because I saw a lot of dudes combining a TS with a Rat and it sounded pretty dope.

Just a thought though, could it be that the amp needs new tubes or something? It has a tendency to sound pretty weak and trebley on its own.
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coupdebleus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:11 pm
Posts: 282
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:03 am 
 

Well, have you tried plugging your guitar to another amp (or even a computer line-in) to make sure the issue ain’t coming from your pickups?
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1618
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2022 11:14 am 
 

Zerberus wrote:
Just a thought though, could it be that the amp needs new tubes or something? It has a tendency to sound pretty weak and trebley on its own.

Have you tried turning down the treble and presence knobs? :lol:

In all seriousness, tube changes aren't necessary until they go bad, at which point there will be other symptoms. The tubes used play a comparatively minimal role in how the thing sounds, unless they're broken.

A huge thing to consider is which cabinet to play through. Cabinets and speakers all sound wildly different from each other and there can even be variation between different specimens of the same speaker model. That's the thing that's going to define your sound's character the most. So if you're not happy overall with your tone no matter how you adjust things, try a different cabinet.
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I really don't want power metal riffing to turn into power metal yiffing any time soon.

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