Alright, so I'm clueless in what to do. I recently bought a used guitar amp (an Engl Screamer 50 head + an Engl 4x12 standard cab) and it sounds fantastic. But, I play in a black metal band and I want that raw, ear piercing distortion that basically sounds cold as fuck. The sound I'm getting at the moment is a bit too warm for my taste.

I've got an ESP MH-50 with DiMarzio pickups (Neck: Humbucker from Hell, Bridge: D-Sonic) the guitar tuned down 1 1/2 step and Elixir Heavy 012-052 strings. My amp settings are: (Gain: 9 Treble: 10 Mid: 2 Bass: 3)

First of all, should I get lighter strings? I read somewhere that 009-042 are perfect to get that raw sound. Also, on what channel should I play?

I also got the advice to get an overdrive pedal such as the Digitech Bad Monkey to use it as a boost to push the distortion a bit further and thus getting the tone I want. But, I've read that overdrive pedals tend to sound warm.

I've also had the advice to get an equalizer pedal in order to modify the sound as I would like it. But would such a pedal work in order to get a cold, raw black metal tone? These pedals cost more than an overdrive pedal so I'm not sure which one would work the best.

I thought about getting a Boss MT-2 pedal, but I've read that I don't need one with the amp I've got. I would like the distortion to come from the amp but tweaked to my preference by the pedal, and not letting the pedal mainly produce the distortion. Which I've read would happen if I got a pedal such as the MT-2.

I want a tone similar to bands like Immortal, Satyricon, etc. I don't do much traditional "chugging" but rather a lot of fairly "open" riffing with some dissonant or complex chord shapes. In other words, the palm mutes are there but more as a rhythmic accent and not the bulk of the chordal playing. Obviously a lot of tremolo (using either few strings or all of them at the same time). I basically want a tone that's ear piercing and that almost hurts to listen to if you know what I mean. What do you guys recommend me to do in order to get this sound?

Get a vintage $5000 early 70's Marshall Plexi, a near mint vintage Les Paul, and the cheapest, shittiest distortion pedal you can find.

I just bought the Engl stack, I'm not interested in getting a new amp. I want to know how to get this sound with the euipment I've got.

You can get that tone out of your amp without any pedals. And we can't help you with it. Make the tone mid-heavy, put the treble above bass but still have a small amount of bass, turn gain all the way.

String gauge wise, you want whatever's light enough to tremolo pick with. Within that, the more you want the note to sound out, the heavier you should go.

I've tried many different settings on my amp and on three different channels, but I'm still not satisfied. The weird part is that I manage to get the tone I want with a low volume but as soon as I crank it up it gets warmer and thicker.

If you're stressing over what equipment to get to play black metal, there's something wrong.

ok... tune your guitar on standard.-.. (for extra piercing tone get lighter ones, and tune to F ) and, like there was already stated, get cheap dist. pedal (danelectro FAB metal works for me...)... and set your amp to low bass, high treble.. play around with the mids...

you should get extremely thin tone imho..., and ofc, play on higher strings and frets...

//tuning to F isnt necessary at all... it just sounds more interesting than another half step downtuned guitar

the head is tube or valve?

But I don't want a distortion pedal to be the main creator of the sound, I just want something that could tweak the tone and not create it if you know what I mean.

The head is tube.

Hate to break it to you, but with that amp and pickup selection you're doomed to a good guitar tone.

So you can't have a good guitar tone that's raw and "cold"?

Maybe 'good' wasn't such a good term to use, as opinions differ... By 'good' I meant pleasing to the ear. You probably already know that tube amps have a much warmer sound than solid state amps; it would be much easier for you to attain the sound you desire with a solid state head or ever a power amp/rack processor.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I honestly have no idea how you would go about it. If you put a Metal Zone in front of your amp I'm sure your guitar would become pretty earsplitting, but I doubt you'd get that kind of sound from the amp itself.

I've thought of that option, but I bought the Engl stack because I thought it was a really good amp (and it is) and that it could handle a black metal tone. Seems kind of waste to buy such a nice amp and throw a distortion pedal in front of it. Wouldn't that make my purchase a complete waste?

You've definitely got a point there, but I don't think it would make your purchase a waste. As long as you're happy with your guitar tone, it doesn't matter what lengths you have to go to in order to attain it. I myself use an Ibanez Tubescreamer in front of my Carvin Legacy half stack as a boost.

Anyway, don't look at it as a waste; on the upside, you have a very high quality amp that is suitable for a variety of applications (should you decide to venture into other musical realms).

You've got a point as well. Wouldn't an EQ pedal get the work done, though? I'm thinking specifically of the MXR 10 Band EQ. Or is the MT-2 my only solution?

I actually don't have much experience with eq pedals, so I can't be of much help there... Did you purchase your amp from a shop, by the way? If they have another one in stock, you might think about going back and demoing a couple of pedals at the store and seeing if any of them are suitable. It's a sure-fire way of making sure you don't waste any money buying a pedal that won't be useful to you.

I know from experience how frustrating it can be when you can't get the tone you want, by the way; it sucks!

I think this may be the first time I've ever heard someone complainabout the way a good tube amp thickens up when turned to band levels.

yeah, I'm also blown away by the fact that the op actually has nice gear, but wants it to sound shitty... it's usually some guy with a single coil-strat and a Peavey Rage wanting his tone to sound like Origin.

seriously though, just crank your treble and presence knobs to 10, leave the gain around 7-8, adjust mid and bass to taste..... if that's not to your fancy, I'd suggest getting another pickup that isn't as awesome as that DiMarzio....

haha "cold as fuck"

Can someone explain me, why do all recommendations concern cheap equipment ? This is a really idiotic stereotype. If you want to SOUND you should have proper equipment and know how to use it. If you want to stay on a bedroom level then go ahead.

A high gain effects pedal that's driving an all tube amp will sound nothing like the same pedal into a hi-tech mosfet amp.

My experience is that a dist pedal will colour the sound, but the major part of that sound will be from the amp (if it's an all tube amp).

Go for the Deathcrush tone. Thick and morbid. I'm tired of wimpy sounding guitar tones in black metal.

This gear can certainly work for black metal, you just need to get used to adjusting it properly!

Thicker strings and downtuning are going to give you a heavier and thicker sound, if you want a raw/piercing sound, don't tune down.

To get a good tone, set your treble to 10, then start turning up low/mid a step at a time while playing along with drums/bass so your tone is thick enough to be audible and clear with them rather than just noise. Start with gain around 5-6, then turn it up slowly until you get a sharp/edgy tone, but don't let it get muddy. Finally, turn your treble down to 5 or 6 and start turning it up slowly and see where you get the best tone, it often isn't at 10.

Turning knobs to max isn't necessarily the best way to get the sound you want, especially with gain. You don't want a single section of the tone extremely dominant, so you will need to turn up the low and/or mid to make the tone thick enough to be more than noise over bass and drums.

Thick strings = Thick tone. Also they mean better intonation and IMO easier right hand playing, but also more difficult bending technique. It's a taste issue.

I've found that the D-Sonic is a fairly dark pickup, try replacing it with an X2N or an Evolution. That will add a nice bit of top end as well as some chord clarity with the Evolution.

If you don't want to replace the pickup, make sure that the blade is closest to the bridge, not the pole pieces.

Additionally, the agathis in an MH-50 is a VERY dark sounding wood, so you won't get a lot of brightness or aggression out of it. A new guitar, made of alder, ash, or maple ( from bright to brightest ) will help out a lot.

As for current settings, turning the mids up will help you cut through the mix more, which will give your guitar a more up front and audible sound. Then, turn the master volume extremely loud so that the sheer volume is harsh to the ears.

It's also important to consider that a lot of high end in a recording/performance comes from the vocals and drums, especially cymbals. The constant "ping-ping-ping" of a ride cymbal or the wash of a crash cymbal add a shitload of high end to the overall tone and makes it sound much more aggressive.

One last thing to note, how are you listening to the amp? If you are adjusting the knobs with the speakers blowing past your knees, you aren't hearing all the high frequencies properly. The best way to really hear your tone is to tweak it a bit, and then get about 10-15' ( 3-4m ) away from the stack. This lets you hear the full frequency response, since treble and mid frequencies are typically more directional than bass frequencies. What that means, is that treble goes out in a straight line/cone from where the speaker is pointing, whereas bass tends to expand in a sphere from the sound source.

Thanks for all the information! Really appreciate it.

I don't have the cash to buy new pickups and frankly, these are so new I don't really want to either. Although I got the idea to use the Humbucker from Hell on the bridge position after reading this on DiMarzio's website.



The D-Sonic tone guide: Treble: 5.5 Mid: 6.5 Bass 6.5
The Humbucker from Hell tone guide: Treble: 8.5 Mid: 4.5 Bass 4.5


Seems to me like it could work rather well for black metal, right? What do you think about this idea? We don't want to tune down because we feel this tuning gives us the most evil sound, but I will buy thiner strings (009-042).

try achieving evil sound without downtuning...

I would buy 10-46 before 9-42, going from 12-52 to 9-42 is a huge change and you'll probably hate it.

The HFH is a very low output pickup. I don't think it would be right for what you want.

Yeah, you're right. Will 010-046 strings work for a 1 1/2 step down tuning without it getting too sloppy?

Alright, but do you think an overdrive pedal such as a Digitech Bad Monkey or an Ibanez Tubescreamer would work? Would an EQ pedal work (specifically the MXR 10 Band EQ) to achieve the tone I want?

I use 11-48 strings (Ernie-Ball Power Slinkies) on C# standard. It feels perfectly fine (to me) for dissonant chords and tremolo picking. Drop B gets a little buzzy.

If you decide to go with the E standard suggestions, go light strings. It hurts to play 11-48 strings on E standard for both my fretting hand and my picking wrist.

10-46 will be sloppy and loose in C# tuning. For that tuning I would recommend 12-52 at lightest and maybe 12-56. Again though that is my personal preference. You might find that you like the way 10-46 feel in that tuning.

The overdrive pedals will give you more gain and make the sound a bit tighter, so they might work for you. The EQ pedal will definitely work well to alter your tone.

I finally decided to go for a Boss MT-2 pedal. I found one used that was very cheap so it's worth a shot. I've read it produces some nasty distortions so I think it will work nicely (even though some people have flamed me to death for putting a distortion pedal in front of an Engl stack).

The MT-2 actually works fairly well as an overdrive pedal, if you keep the distortion at its lowest level and the volume at highest. Use the EQ knobs to shape your tone and tada!

I've read it's suppose to be used on the clean channel of the amp. How would it work if I used it there? Because we incorporate clean passages as well so having the pedal as a footswitch from clean to distortion would be fantastic (since the Engl footswitches are expensive as hell).

Let's say that I use the MT-2 on the clean channel. Will the distortion be produced only by the pedal when turned on? I still want the Engl dist, just with a more raw tone. Again, thanks for the help!

You don't need to get an ENGL footswitch, any generic footswitch that works with amp relays will switch your amp.

If you use the MT-2 with the clean channel, then the MT-2 will produce all the distortion. You can do this if you want, and it might get the sound you want. Or you can use the MT-2 to give the distortion channel on the ENGL some added edge and drive.

It's up to you, and its best for you to experiment to see what gets you the best tone for what you want.

Just seems like a total waste to get such a good amp only to let a pedal form the distortion. I went for the MT-2 because it was so cheap and the MXR EQ pedal wasn't.

This is not necessarily true. Some use the opposite polarity from others...for example, Peavey and Marshall use opposite polarities on their footswitches.

a metalzone pedal will definitly give you the raw black metal tone. and when used correctly that pedal can actually give you a good variety of sounds, when people put it down, they just don't know how to use it properly. and yes, using a cheap(ish) pedal in front of an expensive amp can be seen by some as a waste, but at the same time, using the pedal in front of a cheap amp will yield a cheap, shitty sound. the better the amp used, the better the sound will be with the pedal.