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almightyjoey
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:43 pm
Posts: 579
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:33 am 
 

Has anyone seen this band? I was looking through the old forum posts yesterday, and I found this band in the 'Drone doom' thread, and quite frankly, I don't think I've seen anything like them. This album, for example: http://www.last.fm/music/N%C7%BDn%C3%B8 ... e+Universe has 8 tracks, and 6 of them are longer than an hour in length. In fact, two of those surpass the hour and a half mark. After downloading a few of their tracks, I think I've come to the conclusion that I quite like them. Pretty much inaccessible, even by drone standards, but once you get into them, the atmosphere they have going is great. Has anyone here listened to them before?

(Also, yes, I am aware that they don't take what they do very seriously.:p)

EDIT: Had to change the thread title, since the original spelling of the name didn't translate to the forum well.

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:48 am 
 

There was an occaisonal joke on #metal about how someone was eventually going to release a drone album that was a few hours/weeks/etc long, and no matter what the quality it was going to get hailed as a masterpiece. One day I'm going to do a month long drone song and release it via a limited to 50 release on 1tb hard drives.

Having said that, I am pretty curious and am going to give it a download. Think I'll listen to it via the old "skip ahead through every track method" though.

Also this made me giggle:

Doom Apocalypse X, The Ultimate Fate Of The Universe (Part II: Planck Epoch) Duration: 0:01
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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:03 am 
 

Longer and longer songs seems to be the ultimate destination of drone. Not a good one, I must say. A lot of people these days seem to think they can just slap a bunch of pointless, drawn-out noise together and get away with calling it art because it's "drone". There's ambience, there's drone, and then there's a waste of time.
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ENKC
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:13 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
There's ambience, there's drone, and then there's a waste of time.

For everything else, there's Mastercard.

Length shouldn't be used for its own sake. They'd want to have something genuinely worth listening to throughout that whole time.
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:45 am 
 

ENKC wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
There's ambience, there's drone, and then there's a waste of time.

For everything else, there's Mastercard.

Length shouldn't be used for its own sake. They'd want to have something genuinely worth listening to throughout that whole time.


Not really.. for music this long, you can ride on a single note drone for a really long time. Anyone who actually listens to this the whole way is typically going to have it as background music or do some meditation (or sleeping) to it, so you don't need much in the way of dynamics or whatever for it to achieve it's purpose. In fact, too much in the way of change for a song this long will ruin it.
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The_Beast_in_Black
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:18 am 
 

A single note drone going on for some obscene amount of time is straddling the borders of music altogether. I can see why someone might want to sleep or meditate to such a sound, but I don't think it holds any more artistic value than one of those tapes with seashore sounds on it.
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Carbone
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Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:12 am
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:52 am 
 

Yeah, I heard about these guys on RYM. Also, they go even further than last.fm shows. That album is tens tracks long.

The 10th track is 146:10 (2:26:10). And the 9th track clocks in at a fucking massive 404:26 (6:44:26). I tend to like long songs. But that is just way WAY too much. It kills any chance the music itself may have had.

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Sadness_for_Life
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:15 am
Posts: 377
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:02 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
A single note drone going on for some obscene amount of time is straddling the borders of music altogether. I can see why someone might want to sleep or meditate to such a sound, but I don't think it holds any more artistic value than one of those tapes with seashore sounds on it.


Bass Communion is an ambient side project of Steven Wilson from Porcupine Tree. He did a collaboration with Jonathan Coleclough that has a 74 minute song based on a single note drone. It's really quite amazing.
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DocNoc
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Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:30 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:30 am 
 

http://www.nanocyborg.byethost9.com/index2.php

That is insane, 21 hour long album jesus

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:52 am 
 

Sadness_for_Life wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
A single note drone going on for some obscene amount of time is straddling the borders of music altogether. I can see why someone might want to sleep or meditate to such a sound, but I don't think it holds any more artistic value than one of those tapes with seashore sounds on it.


Bass Communion is an ambient side project of Steven Wilson from Porcupine Tree. He did a collaboration with Jonathan Coleclough that has a 74 minute song based on a single note drone. It's really quite amazing.


<-- Thanks for that rec. I'm a huge jonathan coleclough fan but have never heard of this before. Sounds rad, and if it's like Coleclough's usual work you know that that single note drone is going to be really freakin good.
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Vaporeon
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:23 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:26 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
A single note drone going on for some obscene amount of time is straddling the borders of music altogether. I can see why someone might want to sleep or meditate to such a sound, but I don't think it holds any more artistic value than one of those tapes with seashore sounds on it.


by that same logic, the goldberg variations shouldn't hold any more artistic value than me recording myself burning an ant-hill to the ground with an overly large magnifying glass.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldberg_variations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7LWANJFHEs

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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:46 pm 
 

Vaporeon wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
A single note drone going on for some obscene amount of time is straddling the borders of music altogether. I can see why someone might want to sleep or meditate to such a sound, but I don't think it holds any more artistic value than one of those tapes with seashore sounds on it.


by that same logic, the goldberg variations shouldn't hold any more artistic value than me recording myself burning an ant-hill to the ground with


Curious as to what logic you're using there :scratch:
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JackRog1104
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Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:27 pm
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:59 pm 
 

I love the genre they give themselves: "Ambient Cosmic Extreme Funeral Drone Doom Metal"

:P

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Vaporeon
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:23 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:24 pm 
 

Quote:
Curious as to what logic you're using there :scratch:


^the same logic he was presumably using.

being thusly.

If one cannot find perceivable thought in a piece of music, then there must have been no thought put in the music. thus, since no thought was put into the music, it shouldn't hold as much artistic value as other songs in which one can find more perceivable thought put into it.

but it wasn't his logic I had a problem with, it was his attitude with which I'm tempted to slap on the adjective descriptor "philistine".

However, having said that: He might've also been referencing to the debate between functionality and absolutism in music.

I'm not quite certain, to be honest.

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5ealchris
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:39 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:36 pm 
 

Apparently, they recorded their albums in Antarctica lol.

Quote:
A plan was soon hatched between the two to steal one of the portable generators as well as some extra fuel and extra food from the research station, load it all onto a dog sled, and venture to the exact South Pole, in the cold and bleak heart of the Antarctic continent. It was at this precise location that NǽnøĉÿbbŒrğ VbëřřĦōlökäävsŦ would record their first album, The Ultimate Fate of the Universe, using their basses, amps, and a laptop.

"I couldn't have seen us recording Ultimate Fate anywhere other than the exact South Pole", said by Wavanova during a later interview. "The tone produced by the basses was greatly influenced by the incredibly cold temperatures. It made the tone much heavier and, well, just more powerfully kvlt overall".

Dark Dude commented further: "Oh, and the wind, the wind also played a huge role in the recording process, I mean, when you have a 50 km/h wind with a wind chill factor of -40 celsius, it's bound to have a substantial effect on the recording. See, all our tracks have this windy staticy sound in them. This is not bad quality on our part, but it is rather the sound of the bleak and icy winds of the lungs of Antarctica breathing its grim air into our microphone. The wind mixed perfectly with the freezing and crystallized bass tone to create what we think, is the grimest and most bleak tone to ever be produced by a band."

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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 2119
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:59 pm 
 

5ealchris wrote:
Apparently, I believe everything I read.
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Ribos
Radioactive Man

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:10 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:29 pm 
 

caspian wrote:
Also this made me giggle:

Doom Apocalypse X, The Ultimate Fate Of The Universe (Part II: Planck Epoch) Duration: 0:01

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_Length
it's still a terrible joke.

So can anyone aside from the OP tell us how the damn music sounds? I am quite curious, but don't want to waste my time downloading day-long albums if they just sound like shit.
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Likanars
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:05 pm
Posts: 53
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:33 pm 
 

Apparently, the exact south pole is ~200 meters from the research station.

When they stole a few ton weighing generator the dogs carried it without a problem. And they never got caught either, because they ran faaar away.

And why not north pole...?

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The_Beast_in_Black
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:06 am 
 

Vaporeon wrote:
but it wasn't his logic I had a problem with, it was his attitude with which I'm tempted to slap on the adjective descriptor "philistine".

So if I recorded the sound of my refridgerator humming over the course of 50 minutes and released it as a "drone" album, would it be art? Would anyone who disagreed with me therefore be a philistine?
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Unorthodox
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:15 am 
 

So, I'm going to download his 6 hour long epic song... and probably delete it after listening to not even 1/16 of it....
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Sadness_for_Life
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:15 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:24 am 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
Vaporeon wrote:
but it wasn't his logic I had a problem with, it was his attitude with which I'm tempted to slap on the adjective descriptor "philistine".

So if I recorded the sound of my refridgerator humming over the course of 50 minutes and released it as a "drone" album, would it be art? Would anyone who disagreed with me therefore be a philistine?


It's been done just recently, actually.
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blodiapunchingjin
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Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:40 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:28 am 
 

Thankfully, the tracks can be downloaded for free off their website. Hopefully this will help with my insomnia.
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Desolator
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Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:47 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:39 am 
 

ENKC wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
There's ambience, there's drone, and then there's a waste of time.

For everything else, there's Mastercard.


Now, that was awesome, superb :lol: :beer: :lol:
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Vaporeon
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:23 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:03 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
So if I recorded the sound of my refridgerator humming over the course of 50 minutes and released it as a "drone" album, would it be art? Would anyone who disagreed with me therefore be a philistine?


disagreeing isn't an attitude it's a differentiation of thought.

so no.

having said that if your refrigerator was capable of making sounds like a million cats clawing their way out of a pool of sulfuric acid, I might be tempted to call it art.

art usually implies intent.
despite the fact that you didn't make the refrigerator, you did in-fact record it and put it into a medium through which others might enjoy, which harbors intention, presumably.

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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:39 pm 
 

I would also contend that art requires a modest degree of effort. This is coming from an ambient fan who appreciates minimalism, mind you. Recording the sound of a refrigerator for an hour and releasing it is not effort; you need to manipulate it somehow, tape manipulation or digital manipulation. At the least, alter the temperature and icebox settings at deliberate points to change the frequency of the humming.



The basic act of setting up microphones in natural or manmade environments and recording any sounds in it has been around for decades, but even from the start the people doing it knew you couldn't just take the raw recording, release as a whole work, and call it any more valuable as art than the unaltered recordings of whales fucking each other. They would spill something acidic on the tape to react with the film, play it backwards and record the result. Lustmord did recordings underground of Tibetan horns, adults yelling, and babies screaming; he didn't just put microphones in a cave and press the red button.





Anyway, this is somewhat irrelevant to the topic at hand. We're talking drone here; I'm assuming the band in question uses a guitar or bass for the drones. Even if they just hit one note and let it ring for twenty minutes, they at least played an instrument, which requires some effort. Such a method of composition would be exceedingly tiresome to listen to without further development of some sort, however---too tiresome to even be background music. Distractingly simple and boring. Bend the string slightly, adjust the volume, add effects.....something. If this band literally just plays single notes for a duration of several hours, not gonna bother wasting time, bandwidth, and/or money on them.
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Vaporeon
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:23 am
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:14 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
I would also contend that art requires a modest degree of effort. This is coming from an ambient fan who appreciates minimalism, mind you. Recording the sound of a refrigerator for an hour and releasing it is not effort; you need to manipulate it somehow, tape manipulation or digital manipulation. At the least, alter the temperature and icebox settings at deliberate points to change the frequency of the humming.



The basic act of setting up microphones in natural or manmade environments and recording any sounds in it has been around for decades, but even from the start the people doing it knew you couldn't just take the raw recording, release as a whole work, and call it any more valuable as art than the unaltered recordings of whales fucking each other. They would spill something acidic on the tape to react with the film, play it backwards and record the result. Lustmord did recordings underground of Tibetan horns, adults yelling, and babies screaming; he didn't just put microphones in a cave and press the red button.


now see, one doesn't necessarily NEED to alter anything if the subject is perfect as is.

Realism in the medium of oil and canvas was not only meant to be an accurate depiction of the subject but also a highly refined artistic skill in both detail and nuance.

Now the advent of photography changed this a bit as the camera became an accurate descriptor of what the human eye sees.

You point and click.

So is photography no longer art?

The same comparison can obviously be made w/ the refrigerator or whale-fucking.

The art at this point is found not in the technical skill of the artist but in the appreciation of beautiful things, capturing them in a perceivable medium, and (presumably) sharing with others.

Having said that: this burrs the line a bit between a critic's job and an artist's.

The ratio: [critique]/[artist] is inversely related to [technical effort]/[appreciation of the subject and/or medium of said art]


oops I forgot to define critique.

Well, It's already been defined by someone much more refined than I. So I'll use a quote. =P

Quote:
The artist is the creator of beautiful things. To reveal art and conceal the artist is art's aim. The critic is he who can translate into another manner or a new material his impression of beautiful things.
The highest as the lowest form of criticism is a mode of autobiography. Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault.

Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated. For these there is hope. They are the elect to whom beautiful things mean only beauty.

There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written. That is all.

The nineteenth century dislike of realism is the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass.

The nineteenth century dislike of romanticism is the rage of Caliban not seeing his own face in a glass. The moral life of man forms part of the subject-matter of the artist, but the morality of art consists in the perfect use of an imperfect medium. No artist desires to prove anything. Even things that are true can be proved. No artist has ethical sympathies. An ethical sympathy in an artist is an unpardonable mannerism of style. No artist is ever morbid. The artist can express everything. Thought and language are to the artist instruments of an art. Vice and virtue are to the artist materials for an art. From the point of view of form, the type of all the arts is the art of the musician. From the point of view of feeling, the actor's craft is the type. All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital. When critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself. We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.

All art is quite useless.


anyway, I think I might download the album from the OP.

I'm curious as to what we were actually talking about now.

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Miniferret
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Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 8:37 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:46 pm 
 

Haha this is great, I'm friends with one of the guys behind the band, he's really chill. He lives 2 floors up (we're in the same college res) and the constant deep bass drones cause the building to shake constantly. It's pretty awesome.

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