from the horse's mouth at the bottom of this page: http://www.ifpi.org/content/section_news/20030626.html:
"Since its introduction in 1994 the SID Code has become the industry standard for indicating the source of optical disc mastering and manufacturing."

agreed though, it is a little ambiguous when dealing with conflicting sources.
1994 is the commonly accepted date.

has this been posted in here yet?
http://www.musik-sammler.de/wiki/index.php?title=IFPI-Codes

and this, wicked this one went offline a while ago! glad it's back
http://www.crimson-ceremony.net/pr3/mf/odlist.php

Just click on the pic dude, it makes it much bigger and clearer to read. Matrix is "PILZ DIGIP CC 016/038 441" (the 441 is a little bit round the disc lower down). If its matrix in that exact font style it is the first press. The font on the 2nd euro press had the same font style of matrix from what I can remember (I used to own it), but I can't recall the matrix code (it was different, but I'm pretty certain it wasn't just the cat no). Anyway, you're refunded now - so no worries all 'round.

Yes, that's either a repress or part of the 75% that are circulating in the internet and are wrong (I would like to see that segmented between blogs/homepages, cooperative databases, online press, corporate sites, etc., because it seems a arbitrary number and rather useless considering the multitude of data that makes the internet nowadays).

What is not wrong is when IFPI itself, not user submited data, not fan sites, IFPI, the entity that started the SID codes, says they started being deployed in 1994 (which makes sense because it's main purpose was to help fight CD piracy and that was hardly a problem before the early 90s). And that is one of the first links posted in the replies to you, and then again, and that you consistently ignored because basing on muddy data fits your solipsism.

It seems you have a problem with reality. I like reality, so I'm ignoring further replies from you.

Edit: what you really need to know, and this may come as either handy (if you're buying) or annoying (if you're selling, hence the dreadmeat question on a previous reply), is that if it's presented as a pre-94 CD 1st press but it has IFPI codes then it's a repress.

the thread got renamed
CD Identification, Matrix & Bootleg Help Thread

@ japc
Funny! when I find a flaw in your argument, you became rude.
It seems, you have a problem with your education, being rude and unpolite does not give the reason to your argue. Anyway I dont expect so much from mankind.

Let me refresh your memory: were you who wrote 3 links in order to inform when the IFPI code started, and the Pink Floyd link contains info well clear that a released from 1987 was made with IFPI.

Therefore, your post didn't help so much. Obviously, you didnt check what you linked, just GOOGLE, copy and paste. A wrong common practice.

You can based your knowledge in the first GOOGLE entrance, or you can belive nothing and test everything as I do. Furthermore when threre is several sources with different info.

I think we have 2 things in common: we like metal, and we detest bootlegs, for this reason both of us are just writting here. I'm not interested in the controversy, but both of us, have different ways to expand our knowledge, you believe in the first google entrance, me test everything.

svartetroner70 why is so hard to understand that CD from 1987 (says on CD and Backcover) is not printed in '87 if has got IFPI, rather from middle '90??? It's repress for God sake. I know that my english it's not perfect but it's understandable enough.
I think it's very simple like 1+1=2, i don't know why don't you accept (great band) this??

Ah, forget it, it's useless. Next thing he'll say that he got this in the 70s.

@Osmi_Putnik
It seems its you who don't understand. Did you check the link: http://pinkfloydarchives.com/DUSCDPF.htm posted by japc, (and not by me)?
I do not know if this website is accurate or not, since I dont know who update it. But after check it, I think is a well completed web at least for the Pink Floyd discography. if you check this web you can see following:

Title: A Momentary Lapse of Reason (Columbia Records 1st issue)
Record Company: Columbia Records
Catalog Number: CK 40599
Bar Code: 7464-40599-2
Matrix Information:
1) Top: DIDP-70659 5 +++ +++++ MANUFACTURED BY DADC [Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp. D]
2) Top: DIDP-70659 8 +++ +++++ MANUFACTURED BY DADC [Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp. D]
3) Top: DIDP 70659 21A8 [Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp. D]
4) Top: DIDP 70659 31A15 [Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp. D]
5) Top: DIDP-070659 11 [Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp.]
6) Top: DIDP-070659 11B1 [Made in USA - Digital Audio Disc Corp. D®]
7) Top: DIDP-070659 20 IFPI L336
Pressing Plant: Sony DADC, Terre Haute, Indiana
Production Mastering: Mastered at The Mastering Lab and Precision Laquer.
Release Date: September 8, 1987
Release Information: First U.S. release. 16-page booklet.
Sound Mastering: The first mastering of Momentary Lapse of Reason for CD and the same mastering as the first (32DP 820) Japanese issue.
Total Time: 51:14
Track Peak Levels: 64.1 / 100 / 93.0 / 89.2 / 85.1 / 99.9 / 40.8 / 99.8 / 39.7 / 93.1

So accordingly this web, the first press of that album released in 1987 contains IFPI.
If you check the whole web, you can see that this album was re-pressed 11 times, and you can find a complete info for each re-press. So accordingly this web, the 7th version from the first press from 1987 of that album was made with IFPI.
Since each re-press has his own description, if this 7th version would've been a repress would've been described as repress, but they catalog it as first press.

Its NOT ME who say the first press of "A Momentary Lapse of Reason" from 1987 contains IFPI, but the web linked by japc. I am only asking to jppc, since he is trying to argue that IFPI started in the early 90's, why in a web linked by him, we can find a released from 1987 with IFPI.

Do you understand?

Obviously I know that if a label do a repress of any CD from their roster may keep the exact booklet and inlay from the original press, in that way a 2012 repress from a 1992 album may contains in the inlay something like: C + P 1992. It is more than clear, and I never said the opposite.

So please, check carefuly my posts, and dont missunderstand them.

Thanks

OK, svartetroner70, will you please shut the fuck up?

It's been shown, over and over again, that the codes were introduced in 1994. If your CD has that code, it's been pressed in 1994 or later. There's simply NO WAY around that fact. Just admit that your beloved disc, whateverthefuck it is, is a repress with otherwise identical booklets and whateverthehell you might have. It's not inconceivable that someone's CDs and jewel cases have been mixed up at some point, or something. But if it has that code, it is from 1994 or later. Argue all you want, it's not going to change the fact, unless you want to prove the existence of a time machine.

We all have CDs that seem to be originals, are originals, and may even be impossible to tell apart from first press items, but are not first press. That's the main reason why I NEVER trade with people who insist on first presses, they are no interested in the music, they just want to have their lists of CDs in a certain way. Thus, unless I get the necessary identification information before the trade, I won't trade with anyone wanting a first press. Anyway, as I believe a manufacturer's website and a pretty damn credible-looking document rather than an error-prone user-based Pink Floyd website in matters like the year of a certain certification introduction, I'd say you're on VERY thin ice here. Please stop arguing, you already lost; this thread is intended to be a source of information, not a stage for your displays of anachronistic acrobatics. Shut up about this already.


Yes, and your contributions to this discussion are living proof of that.

EDIT: if you google the IPFI code on the Bolt Thrower page you linked to, you get a Godflesh album. Funny, ain't it?

@Napero
Now the insults, i love the mankind!



really?

I wasn't who linked here the Pink Floyd web with that obvious error, and when I ask the reason of that, then this treatment.

Excellent

OK, I didn't read this all the way through, the thread was flagged. But the fact still stands: the code was introduced in 1994, and if you have a CD with that code, it's not from 1987. If you have proof that this is wrong, link it here. Otherwise stop arguing. I did quite bit of googling before I posted, and your argument is either invalid or presented in a goofy manner.


Well, fuck... maybe I'm mistaken, and the first post on this thread is wrong, and this was meant as a sandbox for you. If that indeed is the case, my apologies, you may return to your fingerpainting. I somehow think you're being a cunt there, though.

@Napero
Great, so you insult without read my entire posts? this i what a moderator do?
As I wrote I am not interested in the controversy, but I am a person who believe nothing and test everything, therefore I dont based my knowledge in the first google entrace.

Let me make you an overview.
Some of you based your thesis about the origin of the IFPI code from the information from some websites. I found websites with information that place the origin before 1994.
Someone (not me) also linked the Pink Floyd web with the obvious error (a 1987 released with Ifpi code)
Since the information circulating in internet is full of errors (yourself has the proof when you tried to google the Bolt Thrower ifpi) I am trying to know what information is accurate and what information is wrong. That's all.

Next time do honor to your status as moderator and treat people trying to know the truth, with respect.

Link to one credible website with proof of this, and you're off the hook. Otherwise, shut up.

There is a difference between a CD manufacturer's document on the origin of the code, and a random user-generated website with the codes OBVIOUSLY from represses. Unless you have nothing more than that to support your thread-distracting blabbering, stay out of here.

I'm outta here. For fuck's sake...

My dark millennium ashore the celestial burden CD has arrived. I see no matrix code on the bottom though. Only A 9372. I couldn't find the matrix code anywhere on discogs and because now that i'm checking all of my CDs I certainly want the matrix code of one I payed 40 dollars for.

Can someone post a picture or confirm from their own CD that the only numbers on the bottom are A 9372? I would appreciate it.

post a picture of your cd...

My own copy (catalog # MASS CD 010) also has the same matrix than yours: A 9372

I dont know if it helps

if you requested the matrix info over at discogs i'm sure someone would add it, 20 people there own it apparently.
http://www.discogs.com/Dark-Millennium-Ashore-The-Celestial-Burden/release/1552202
you could even ask the guy selling a copy to confirm it? or better yet to add it to the database

it's not listed here either
http://www.musik-sammler.de/album/8525

Same here. A 9372... scanner is not working though

Does someone have Tyrant (Germany) CDs on Battle cry records...please take a look at this picture and compare with yours cd all 4 of it have that kid of matrix/font and is very strange for me...either is bootleg or very bad pressing plant
Matrix: Tyrant BC 033

I bought these when they first came out
Tyrant-Fight For Your Life Matrix Tyrant BC 031
Tyrant-Mean Machine Matrix Tyrant BC 030
Tyrant -Ruling The World Matrix Tyrant BC 033
Tyrant-Running Hot Matrix Tyrant BC 032

And yes they do look very cheaply made, i have other reissues and remasters from battle cry records and all look very cheaply made

Can somebody put a picture of both sides of cd for real Grinder-Dead End. I have seen many versions, i have bought most of my cds back in the day, but took a chance and bought this Grinder cd recently from a private site for 20 euros and the writing side is done in a off brown color, the matrix matches up perfectly from what i have read and seems to be right font size. But i have be told that on the written side the word Grinder should be in BLUE color and the rest of the writing in BLACK color. If it is a boot, then they did one hell of a job except for the written color scheme on the CD.
I also notice that a lot of Grinder cds with Blue and Black color schemes of the wording coming out of Russia at the moment. And from what i can tell they are perfect copies.

Scan or take a photo of matrix and i will tell you right away if it's org!

AND PLEASE PEOPLE, NO MORE "CAN SOMEBODY PUT SCAN?" NO!!!!!! YOU PUT SCAN HERE AND WE WILL VALUATE....PLEASE!!!!

No offence it's not personal....and thanks for Tyrant!!!

AND PLEASE PEOPLE, NO MORE "CAN SOMEBODY PUT SCAN?" NO!!!!!! YOU PUT SCAN HERE AND WE WILL VALUATE....PLEASE!!!!

No offence it's not personal....and thanks for Tyrant!!![/quote]


Yep no probs at all will do and thanks

N/A

You might find this of use: http://www.metal-treasures.com/2011/04/bootlegs.html

agreed, but not in caps ha ha

the only problem i have with good quality scans of discs online is that the bootlegging scumbags can use them to 'make' disc images...
you guys wanting to know if you have bootlegs or not should also check out those album cover websites too, this is exactly what my angelcorpse cd seller did.
one of them came from here: http://www.allcdcovers.com/

my scan > http://gglobb.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/cd_cc.jpg
image from above site > http://gglobb.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/allcdcovers_angel_corpse_iron_blood_and_blasphemy_2001_retail_cd-cd.jpg

I would love to post scans of my CDs. However I do not own a photo scanner.

I discovered there is a photo scanner in the printer in my attic!

Here is a photo scan of the Dark Millennium CD in question. I purchased it from discogs. Someone in this thread recently said theirs doesn't have a matrix code either.




Here is a photo scan of the CD I am sure is a bootleg. Coroner's No more color.

It just came to my attention that the reason behind the recent flood of Sororicide CDs on ebay is simple as that it's been bootlegged.

Sororicide - The Entity Bootleg CD on ebay (matrix is not mirrored)

The matrix on the original is mirror-inverted.

And people spend loads of money on it because it's rare!

Wait, are you the guy who just sold me the Sacrilege CDs on Ebay? The username and location kind of gave you away.

It's not just rare... tastes are different, but I can tell you it's damn good as well!
I sold those CDs, yes. You just paid. =]

I never even realized it was you until know, eh. I always do my Ebay purchases based on the feedback profile of sellers and I have to say that your neg must be really hard to swallow. I'm sure it was unwarranted.

On Sororicide, trust me when I say that I get that people want to have the 1/500 copy of XYZ album but it's the obscene amount of money that makes me wonder if that's really worth it. Forget the music, we're talking a minimum wage on a CD! That's a lot of money... I saw today a four song EP of an unknown Dutch thrash band and it was over $200 already! It's just too much in my book.

I'm recognized by my trigger hand on the pay button, lol. That's me!

also if it came out in 1991 it won't have ifpi codes, the one in that photo clearly shows ifpi codes.
has anyone reported him for trying to sell counterfeit goods yet?

Good eye Dreadmeat! Indeed it has.

awesome, a simple photo editor can rotate images, irfanview for windows is quite good from memory [i use the gimp]

"good eye brian, good eye"

Oh you...

Spanish seller, spanish mastering SID (MPO Ibérica S.A., Madrid according to http://www.miskovskyfan.se/html/ifpi.php), it fits.

Reported to the IFPI and reported the item on ebay:

Report item
Report Category: Copyright and trademark
Reason for Report: Counterfeit item or authenticity disclaimer
Detailed Reason: Counterfeit, fake, or replica items

EDIT: item already goes for $429.00 on ebay. I can't imagine how people know that this exists, know how much it is worth but don't know how to do a little critical thinking.

nice one, owned
i sold a cd to a bloke in ecuador yesterday, i'm just trying to confirm his address, i don't speak spanish...

further to my ukranian Majesty And Decay thread
http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=85240


Immolation ‎– Majesty And Decay [eu/german version] which apparently is made in thailand
matrix: DIP LBR 16 DIP 00056100008 8858305013766 CD IMMOLATION-MAJESTY AND DECAY TDM [logo]
mastering sid code: IFPI LZ39
mould sid code: ifpi UP88

matrix


disc


side-by-side


does anyone else have these versions of this album?
i had a few comments in the other thread but hopefully this thread gets a bit more traffic