Damn, that Homeland finale.

Haha. Are you more inclined towards the 'meh' side of things or are you blown away? I wasn't blown away at how it turned out though. Just confused and it made me wonder how are they gonna make S3 even the least bit interesting. Homeland is Prison Break v2.0. It rode on the success of S1 and then tapered off into something people didn't give two shits about.

Anywho,

I liked season 2 as much as 1. *shrug*

But... but... How can you pick out the writing as a particularly bad thing? The writing especially was brilliant; it was one of the best things about Firefly... Are you sure you watched the right show?


I honestly really enjoyed their narrative; Balthar was an idiot, but in an interestingly manic, pathetic, desperate, hilarious, tormented, inept way - a bit overacted at times, but in a manner that fitted with the sheer human weirdness of the character. And I quite liked the somewhat corny but still intriguing revelation that Eh. Each to their own.

What are your thoughts on B5, Calusari?

I mentioned that briefly above, just after your post about it. I found it totally unwatchable; I couldn't make it through the first season, and the later episodes I saw didn't seem to improve much. I haven't seen enough to absolutely condemn it but, honestly, I have no idea why it's praised so highly in some quarters.

Haha, oh dear, I think I mixed you up with Morrigan .

That can only be a compliment.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I get that from everyone who's a fan. If I thought the writing was shit, then it must be because I accidentally watched all the bad parts and missed the greatness. It's just one of those things I file away under Inexplicably Popular, like sitcoms such as Everybody Loves Raymond.

I'm not a Firefly fanboy, but I did enjoy the show a lot. You've crossed a line comparing it to that shitcom

Firefly's great, but I can totally understand why people might not like it. It takes a certain willingness to embrace the inner dork to fully get into. Over the course of the season I went from being really on the fence about the show to wanting the theme song as my ringtone.

There are no bad parts, so this is really inexplicable. Perhaps you were watching BSG and didn't realize it. That must be it.

Yeah, seriously, say what you want about Firefly, it has very snappy, clever writing. Not everyone is a fan of Joss Whedon's style but calling it shitty is just wrong.


So? That changes literally nothing about my opinion. It was mostly Starbuck I was thinking about when I was complaining; she goes off on that fucking stupid quest into occupied territory to get the arrow of dumbshit and takes the captured alien fighter and I seriously just wanted her to be written out of the show forever after that. But no, she doesn't get rewarded for her idiocy by getting blown to tiny little bits or locked up forever after she gets back. Regardless of whether or not the writers are atheists, they made me hate one of the main characters forever. Good job.

Also I didn't HATE Gaius Balthar, but I really didn't like him that much easier. He was pretty douchey. That show had a real big problem with making their main characters likeable. You obviously don't need to like everyone in a show, but when the writers clearly want you to root for someone (a la Starbuck) they REALLY need to make them likeable.

Exactly. It took a little while to get used to, but I, too, went from doubt to calling everything "shiny" for a while. Same with much of Whedon's TV output, I think - you need to adjust to the style of a particular series, but - if it turns out that it clicks with you - you'll soon find yourself as one of the fans whom you previously looked at askance.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer is still shit, though.

No it isn't!

I used to find Sarah Michelle Geller 'Edible & Incredible.' Had such a thing for her in the late 90s when that show was on. Never watched it though, for fear my skater brethren would hang me up as if i were caught dancing to Britney, Cartman style. Seriously though, i haven't seen that show in 12 years or so; my friend's a big fan. Shall i borrow it off her- she has all the DVDs?

I really like Buffy. It's silly (though not in a bad way) but as it goes on the characters are more and more developed and well done. Nobody ever talks about Angel though. Which is a crime as it's the best thing Whedon ever did, after its rather average first season...though I guess I haven't seen Dollhouse yet. But Angel seasons 2-5 are just jaw-droppingly good and showcase everything Whedon does right.

Sometimes Whedon's style gets too self-referential and "meta," and he really just loves making fun of genres and deconstructing them. Hell, in Buffy he starts to deconstruct his own deconstructions after a while...it gets pretty convoluted. But he's so good at writing characters and can create really great dramatic moments as well as comedic ones, so it sort of balances out.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I completely agree about Angel - from season 2 onwards, it's definitely Whedon's best, and one my favourite shows of all time. And, in my view, far better than Buffy (though I do like that, too).

Dollhouse is also pretty good, though, and certainly recommended; as with most of his shows, it takes a while to find its groove, and, while you need to see the first few episodes to understand that world, they can be rather tedious. It increases in complexity and emotional force as it grows; and, while I'd never spoil it, I will say that this series is satisfying despite it's brief life-span. One tip, though, if you're planning to watch it: there's an episode called "Epitaph One", which was the unaired 13th episode that was meant to end the first season if the second wasn't made. It's often aired as the Season 1 final when the show's repeated these days, though some DVDs and downloads list it as an extra instead. For maximised viewing enjoyment, I'd definitely recommend watching that episode as it was intended, after Season 1 and before Season 2, regardless of whether or not the DVD/website lists it as a bonus extra. They lie! It's not an extra, it's a vital part of the plot.

If you're new to Buffy, deathriderdoom, you'll need determination to make it all the way through, but it does improve - I thought it really picked up after the second season. That's only me, though.

Any show that has episodes like the one with those chilling The Gentlemen monsters (I think the episode was called Hush. It's the one that's almost completely silent) is good in my book. Anyways, been watching That Mitchell and Webb look. Like all sketch shows, it's extremely hit and miss. Some of the recurring sketches (Bring me Hennimore, the Snooker Commentators) are really, really dire. But when it nails a good one, it's really funny in that unique way British comedy tends to be. I'd say the quality ratio is somewhere around 70% good stuff. Nowhere near as brilliant as Peep Show though.

^^I was thinking i could have it on in the background kinda, while i dick around on the internet and such. Kinda watch it, but half watch it. I know my friend has all the DVDs or whatever.

Yeah, that's a good idea for the first couple of seasons; though keep an ear out for the dialogue and all that other Whedon goodness later on. Though I guess you'll find yourself automatically drawn to pay closer attention if you find that you like the series.

Buffy and Angel, really? After watching the awesomeness of Firefly, I decided to give Buffy a shot and checked out the first season, because I figured it couldn't possible be as bad as I thought, coming from such a brilliant creator. Well, no, it was pretty bad. Occasionally amusing in a so-bad-it's-good way, but not much more. So, do these shows seriously really get much, much better? I kind of have a hard time believing it, especially with a premise about teenagers fighting vampires...

WHERE IS YOUR INNER CHILD? You godless cynic.

Hmm, I'll take that as a "no" then.

Precisely.

You should watch Angel instead!

Aren't the two series interlinked..?

Yeah, but Angel's better.

Angel is Buffy's lover. It's as bad, probably worse. Don't bother, HB. David Boreanaz is alright in Bones though.

Edit for Calusari: Yes, Bones is waaaaaaay better than Angel

Bones better than Angel?

Angel and Buffy aren't really that closely interlinked, plot-wise - that is, you don't have to know much of anything about Buffy to enjoy Angel; the relevant aspects of the characters that appear in both are easy to find online, and are explained in Angel anyway.

Seriously, though, the first season of Buffy is unrepresentatively awful - you can't judge either series by those episodes; Buffy improves massively around season 3, and Angel is on another level altogether.

Bones better than Angel? That show is vapid and lifeless.

People said Babylon 5 got good in S3 too....

I think I like The Wire season 3's theme song rendition best.

It's a bit odd too, because the same people who tote B5 as God's Gift to Serialized Sci-Fi also willfully admit the first, second and fifth seasons are atrocious and should probably be skipped by anyone new to the show. I'm not entirely sure where 2/5ths is a majority, but I don't think I ever wanna live there. Because. Well, because there, B5 would be considered good .

Bones used to be pretty fun, but it's not Joss Whedon caliber writing or drama or anything...

I don't see why you wouldn't like Buffy and Angel if you like Firefly. They are different genres, sure, but they all have the inimitable Whedon stamp and all are good for the same reasons - inventive plots, great characters and a huge influx of awesome drama and tragedy, along with some very good comedy. Buffy's season 1 is pretty goofy but I like it; it's fun. Seasons 2, 3 and 5 are the best ones though, with the best plots and Whedon's best job of tying in the supernatural stuff to normal 'coming of age' themes...it's more than just teenage kids fighting vampires for sure, and in season 3 you get some badass espionage, sword fighting, etc - totally awesome.

Seriously though, going from Angel season 1 to 2 is like night and day...the second season is just pure magic and the third and fourth are chillingly good. The fifth is the most original thing Joss has ever written and also the most complex as it explores some seriously warped questions of morality and justice...



It's just a great fucking show. I love the way the show subtly builds its plot through all five seasons with underlying motifs and hints, the way it constantly pushes its characters around without getting too sloppy and exploitative like Buffy did in the last 2 seasons and the very intricate themes it has on grey morality, right and wrong, etc. Plus the usual good comedy and action elements in between. It's pretty much got everything. Great to sink your teeth into.

With that said...I really do have to try The Wire and Breaking Bad sometime soon. Been on my radar for months.

Has Walking Dead gotten any better since the beginning/middle of season 2? I got pretty bored, but maybe I should pick it up again.

S2 is abysmal, S3 is pretty damn good.

You could start season 3 without watching the rest of 2, since theres a summary at the beginning. Season 3 is way better than 2.

Season 3 is better, but I don't have anything against season 2. I usually watch it with my friends on AMC when it comes out, but I missed the last two because of exams and final essays and whatnot. I should get around to watching those episodes, it was getting really good.