Hi, I just listened to the first two Koldbrann albums and realized how sloppy and dull the drummer is, it just sounds like he was drunk and just hit a piece of wood with a stick. Overall the early work is quite good, but with this kind of drumming it destroys a lot of the atmosphere.

So my question is, didn't the band notice it when listening to the final product? I don't have any problems with primitive production values as long as there's at leas a certain amount of skill but this drumming sucks right the way.

It's interesting how one element can destroy the power of Black Metal, just imagine some works of Burzum with this kind of percussion it would really suck.

The band has fired the drummer in 2009 which is no wonder but the new one is not that good either, on vertigo the drumming is a bit better produced but it's still very static and not very clever.

The only drumming parts which are even worse are those of the polish band Capricornus but this comes damn close.

I wasn't familiar with them until now, but after going to YouTube, I'd still say the drumming on Immortal's Battles in the North is far worse. It's like Abbath quickly learned how to drum when realising they didn't have a drummer for the album, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly how it went.

Eh, didn't sound too horrible to me, the worst drumming I've ever heard is probably from Splattered Cadaver's first demo.

Haha, I too was thinking Abbath. Nothing beats him!
The snare sound on the first Koldbrann sure is interesting though.

I find Koldbrann's early drumming to have a really interesting sound - sure, it's not super-tight, but a lot of the time it seems to work - The band are, as far as I know, really against the use of triggers and polished drum production, so that might be a factor.

Their new album really is something, while we're on the subject - a solid modern black-metal album which manages not to sound too generic. Been really well received too, I believe.

What in the world is the drummer doing at 2:30. I haven't heard drumming that bad since Steven Adler.

bill andrews on death's spiritual healing and leprosy albums.... terrible

Whoever plays the drums on Morrigan's Headcult and The Damned.
Great albums, if the sloppy drumming doesn't count.
The dude rides his tempobike to the bushes with the easiest parts!
Sloppy fills too.

His drumming isn't skillful, but it's not at all terrible. Perhaps you haven't listened to an awful lot of black metal - or a lot of awful black metal.

I don't get why this would be the worst drummer ever?

I think thats more of a case of the drums being recorded really shitty, not because the drummer is bad.

Me neither.

These people probably consider Tomas Asklund to be a pretty good drummer. I like sloppy drummers as long as said sloppiness won't distract from enjoying the substance overmuch. People seem to think that anyone with completely quantised and triggered tracks is a good drummer, whereas someone who has the skill and the opportunity to let go on the groove is a bad one.

I agree with Ilwhyan, Abbath's drumming for Immortal was fucking great btw. It's full of enthusiasm and suits the music perfectly. Horgh is pretty boring in comparison.

Bill Andrews is pretty solid as a drummer, but not the most creative in the world by a long shot. Leprosy is one of the earliest examples (if not the earliest example of using triggers on a death metal album, it's only the snare that is triggered.) He's not an outstanding drummer, but nowhere near as bad as some people like to pretend and I much prefer him to Richard Christy or someone like that.

Abbath's drumming is awesome. It somehow suits the music a lot better when it's a little sloppy. I especially love the part in the middle of Grim and Frostbitten Kingdoms when he fucks up in the middle of the blastbeat.

I guess technically Tomas Asklund has skill, but his playing is lifeless and overproduced. His old drumming was better than his work nowadays.

I like both triggered and non-triggered drums. As long as there is feeling behind the playing, that's what matters to me.

Bill Andrews was a great drummer, and he was a much better drummer than Chris Reifert was (when he was in Death). Sure, the snare fill in "Open Casket" was pretty stupid, and he wasn't very creative, but I felt that was one of his strong points, just a very in your face approach to drumming. In my opinion, he did a great job with "Spiritual Healing" and on "From Beyond".

Therein lies the problem. It's not "a little sloppy". It's a complete disaster. I'd wager this is how I would sound if I tried to play drums for a black metal band and it's worth noting I've never played drums.

Tomas isn't a bad drummer he's just very sterile. More of a rock drummer playing extreme music. He delivers a solid back bone but never anything that makes me at least say 'wow'.

Calling Abbath's drumming 'a little sloppy' is like calling rape 'civil disobedience'.

Wow, what a giant straw man.
Sloppiness has exactly nothing to do with being groovy. Tell me, when was the last time you heard Phil Rudd being sloppy?

It does, as far as I understand the word groove.

Groove is created by not playing a beat in the theoretical time that it's written in, for example a trailing snare in basic 4/4. Considerable deviation from the correct time inside a bar will sound sloppy. Sloppy drumming of course means that the drums are being played without the required amount of skill to play something theoretically correctly, whereas groovy playing would mean the intentional (or at least effectively grooving) deviation from that theoretical correctness. The drummer's intentions are actually irrelevant, so the difference is in how it sounds. And then we're in the realm of the subjective, and what is groovy to me might be sloppy to someone else.

For the last time, Abbath played drums on both Pure Holocaust AND Battles In The North. The drumming on Battles In The North is intentional; listening to Pure Holocaust shows that Abbath can obviously play a drum set.

Can't believe nobody has mentioned Capricornus!

The difference between being groovy and being sloppy then, is consistency.
You are right in so far that it's about deviation from the exact beat. Phil Rudd creates his groove by hanging back on the hi-hat. Roger Taylor by pushing the snare, being almost too early on the beat. BUT, they do it consistently. With Abbath, you'll never know where the beat will come from one measure to the next. That as a result of limited technical skills.

Yeah, might even be worse than Key Dragon, it even sounds like the drums are very badly tuned/untuned.

A lot of 1980s heavier punk stuff had very sloppy drumming, for example Battalion of Saints and G.B.H. I feel G.B.H. would have been much better with tight drumming, their more metallic stuff especially.

Ex Koldbrann is not a bad drummer! He is just an drummer who likes to play "Simple"! As Bill Andrews In Death, He did great job even being just a simple drummer! He was part of the band history and did good job doing it! Regarding Abath; He is an awesome drummer! "Battles in the North" Was made that way on purpose! In "Pure Holocaust" you can hear a more perfect playing! Anyway! I bet there arent too much drummers who cant even play one song from "Battles in the North"! Anyway;With those fake new sounds/triggers etc the shittiest drummer can sound good now days! Wanna know of shitty drummers? Mention Cannibal Corpse Drummer which is simple but suck! And old Graveland Drummer "Capricornious"; There in no one worst than him!

I bet there are millions of drummers, and mandolinists, who can play "Battles in the North" in it's entirety, blindfolded and with unbrushed teeth! See, I can make up arguments too.

Then he probably shouldn't have recorded the drums after having downed a bottle of vodka, because intentionally bad drumming is still bad.

There's an interview with Abbath where he talks about doing the drums for those two albums. Might be Until the Light Takes Us.

I would argue that this unpredictability is the key appeal of all sloppy playing - sloppy players will inadvertently play music that is more complex than what is "on the page" - instruments going off-tempo, off-meter (adding or skipping beats), off-key/scale/pitch collection. What might otherwise be simple music becomes constantly shifting, multi-tempo, polyrhythmic, and chromatic. I understand that hot everyone will enjoy this, but I find it very appealing.

No mention of Dennis Morgan from Waking the Cadaver? He's gotten better, but his early work was ridiculously weak and sloppy.

A lot of boring-ass people in here, of course Abbath's drumming on Battles in the North is a 'disaster,' it sounds like a fucking whirlwind. Go suck a Hoglan.

The guy who played drums for Mutiilation up until Mey'nach took over, that guy was fucking awful but it somehow makes the songs more kvlt and enjoyable. Sin Nanna.. But his playing of all instruments is equally shitty and not enjoyable at all. Also, Jekyll from Manierisme.

If I did sigs, I'd probably sig this. Go suck a Hoglan, everybody!

After listening to Koldbrann, I don't see the big deal. It's not that bad at all, and tt's not extremely dissimilar to Mayhem's Deathcrush or many other early releases by second wave black metal acts; hell, if we're condemning sloppiness here, I dare say Deatcrush has it worse. I'd much rather listen to this than someone more inane like Mike Portnoy or Tomas Asklund Haake.

Edited with who I was really talking about

Well said. Although Tomas Asklund wouldn't be half as bad if he wrote passable drum beats instead of that outrageously insipid drivel that ruins Infernus's cool riffs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP1KYq0u89U&t=1m44s

Nice cymbal work in that blast, Tomas!

I don't have a problem with Asklund's drumming per se, but about the production on the albums he's played. From a (former) drummer's perspective, I think Tomas did a fine job on Quantos, he added the exact amount of fills to both not bore the listener and also respect the riff-driven compositions from Infernus. I mean, if people complaint about Tomas, why not Trym? both have a very similar style and role on their respective bands.

About Abbath, I don't mind the drumming on Battles. It's far from perfect but for me doesn't detract the enjoyment, like Capricornus does. Also, the drumming on both Death's leprosy and Spiritual Healing is boring as fuck.

I don't know, more mediocre than terrible.

Also, I meant Tomas Haake from Meshuggah, I'm not really sure where I got Asklund from. I think I just saw him in this thread and assumed. It's why I grouped him together with Mike Portnoy in case anyone's wondering.

Edit: I haven't actually listened to Quantos blah blah blah in a long time, but the drumming isn't really notable in that song compared to something more fun to listen to such as Battles in the North which is so disliked here in this thread.