That's what I want to know. Fidelman is fucking terrible. World Painted Bloods could have been a monster of an album. But this motherfucker butchered it with his horrible production job. I mean, does Slayer truly believe this hack doesn't give bands the stalest, blandest sound ever? Death Magnetic was weak sounding and WPB had the musical texture of a week-old chip left in the sun.

Fidelman is just that nice of a guy.

THIS. Though I'd quit Slayer out of that problem, their guitar sound is still great. But concerning to Metallica, and specially their live guitar sound, for their past's sake, what awful noise is that? Where is the anger, the ferocity of their shows? I've seen then live twice in the last 6 years and I don't think I'll see them anymore.

Why do they need Fidelman, because Rubin says so? Both of them obviously are more interested in Metallica. It's pathetic for King to beg these clowns for some attention. Hire they guy who did Christ Illusion instead.

Sneap did a good job with Testament's Dark Roots of Earth.

or everyone could stop making these albums that just sound like super-loud walls of noise...

Sneap needs to produce all these albums from the old farts.

I love Sneap's stuff as a producer. He does a great job really bringing out the ferocity of a lot of metal albums. Only problem is that they all kind of sound the same. Then again, don't fix what ain't broken

As for Slayer, Sneap producing their next album sounds awesome. Would be a huge benefit.

the last thing we need is Slayer hopping on the Andy Sneap trend, seriously. I dont like what Fidelman did to Death Magnetic and World Painted Blood but I have to give him that at least those albums sound DIFFERENT to all the millions of interchangeable records that guys like Andy Sneap and Colin Richardson put out these days.

Christ Illusion has the best production job out of the newer Slayer albums, they should stick with that

Two of the best producers out there right now.

I didn't realize that putting out albums where the sound is properly mixed and everything sounds clear was a negative thing.

They're pretty good at what they do, but they tend to excel with a kind of vibe that is more modern, a little lifeless for certain bands. It's not a knock against Sneap and Richardso, btw. Every tool has its purpose. Sometimes, you need a hammer and sometimes you need a screwdriver.

I'd still be up to see what Sneap can do with Slayer, though. I don't think he's optimal but he can't do worse than the latest asshole.

you missed the point

Okay, but that "different" sound is a paper thin guitar tone and weird mixing.
Not to mention that, not only did Fidelsticks ruin World Painted Blood from being quite the comeback album, but destroyed Snakes For The Divine. Have you heard those songs live? They're pretty kickass. Fidelman shouldn't be allowed to touch anything. Including people of his sexual preference.

Slayer needs a producer who does something else aside sitting on the coach and tell them 'play what you feel better'.

I would even use Tägtgren to bring a way more ferocious sound.

How do you guys think a Scott Burns production job would work for Slayer? I know he's long retired, but it's still an interesting thought I feel.

If it was Scott Burns it would sound like Beneath the Remains or the other zillion death metal bands he did. He's not bad but almost everything he did sounded the same.

As for the Slayer situation I really don't give a shit.. they got boring after Seasons though from reading the comments I'm tempted to give Divine Intervention a listen.

The idea that Reign In Blood is "thrash taken to its extreme" is a bit mindbending for me. Is it loud? Hell yes. Is it fast? Hell yes. Is it evil? Most fucking certainly. Is it the most extreme thrash album of the 1980s? Not even close. Eternal Nightmare was much, much faster and more psychotic, and there are countless other releases by other bands that rip harder than RIB.

More slayer drama! This time King talks about Tom being on the fence about Dave not being on tour with them:
http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/drama/slayers-kerry-king-says-tom-araya-is-on-the-fence-about-dave-lombardo

This is all too much! These guys need to decide or disband!

http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/S ... astardHead

Everyone in this thread that's been mouthing off on Reign in Blood not being good needs to read this.

You're welcome.

Is BHead just responding to the people in this threads? While I agree with all his points he's way overreacting I think. Most people think RiB kills, some deaf people prefer other Slayer albums but it's a tiny minority, we all know this already.

Yeah, agreed. And constantly saying 'fuck' and calling people neckbeards (whatever that is) kills that review for me.

He spends half the review telling everyone who doesn't love all of it that they're fuckwits, and then goes on to admit that he himself finds flaws in the album. I generally like his reviews, but this one is very poor.

Gone are the days of the really good mod reviews ala failsafeman, Napero, Nightgaunt et al; these are the new mod reviews I guess. I suppose I am just a mouth-breathing neckbeard for typing that.

^What they said. Basically his review says, " WAHHHHH!!!! STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!!!"

Pretty sure it's the other way round man.

RE:RE:Re:RE:...

- bullshit musicology-sounding term predominantly used out of context by people without actual arguments who still want to impress, plus "tremolo-picking", because fuck yeah, that's what death metal is all about, right?
- Lyrics (lol!)
- (subjective)
- (subjective)
- unrelated, subjective bullshit about metal in the 80s in general
- unrelated whining about Slayer not being praised enough as death metal pioneers to your liking
- "thrash metal" does not exist (lol indeed)
- unrelated opinion on Slayer's early career in general

Thanks bro, now I see the light! Also, Maiden's 'Killers' might just be brutal death metal, I think. It has metal riffs, just like brutal death metal, and I like it, and cool cover artwork, and I like it, and heavy metal was always an umbrella term for brutal death metal bands and those who wish they played brutal death metal, anyways, right? Plus, I like it, and non-chromatic-atonal-disharmonically-enchanted-magic-bullets, just like brutal death metal. Also, Maiden was cool in the 80s, and that album isn't praised enough. So yeah, totally brutal death metal, see?


See, that's the opposite extreme from inhumanist's view, and I disagree with it as well. Megadeth is not the only thrash band who had its very own style while still being thrash, most of the good ones did, including Slayer of course. Because it's essentially thrash pushed to a logical extreme, RiB is not quite the most representative of thrash albums. It's representative of extremely over-the-top, diminutive thrash with a lot of proto-death-isms, and while bits and pieces of it can be found in plenty of later thrash albums (the title track's break, most notably), the vast majority of thrash albums sound pretty far removed from RiB. So that's not what I'd call the best example, and I don't think someone discovering thrash through RiB will have as good an idea of what thrash metal encompasses as, say, someone discovering thrash through 'Among the Living', 'No Place for Disgrace', 'The Legacy', 'Impact is Imminent' or 'Beneath the Remains', to name a few more. Sounds to me like there might be a little confusion in the "love it = it's representative" camp, though. These are two entirely separate criteria.


Thanks for asking. Between TrooperEd's vomiting, your post and perhaps a couple others defending the "Hell Awaits is extreme and/or awesome" point of view, I had to endure what must have been my 30th listen of 'Hell Awaits' overall, and the first one in at least 5 years. I can now bring a few nuances to my previous statements on it, although one thing hasn't changed: it still bores me shitless as an "album as a whole". Still love "At Dawn They Sleep" and "Hardening of the Arteries" to bits, though. This album probably was more influential than it sounds, as a few riffs and techniques were later found in other notable thrash albums ("Kill Again" contains the blueprint for both Terrible Certainty's title track's chorus riff and the entire album's horrible soloing, for instance), and yeah, in a lot of ways this contains future death metal riffs ideas that were further developed in RiB. But at the end of the day, this is a plodding, mostly mid-paced affair with a lot more brooding than aggression, and I maintain that it was by no means qualified for the then-ongoing race for extremity in thrash in general and the informal "evil thrash" movement in particular.

Why this failed to affect the top of the extreme thrash food-chain upon its release in late 1985, when this had been released in late 1984 and that in mid 1985, should be self-explanatory. Riffing, tempo, drumming, vocals, even the soloing, everything was more vicious in Destruction's first two official releases than on 'Hell Awaits', and it came first, so it's not even that HA was outdone by the competition: in terms of pushing the boundaries to the extreme, it was already obsolete upon its release. That's why you don't see it cited too often in serious discussions about extreme thrash. Extremity is obviously a relative concept, and this album never was extreme in its historical context. Bonded by Bl... oh wait, that's self-explanatory as well (especially considering this was recorded in fucking mid-1984!); BbB is tremendously more abrasive, vicious and relentless than HA, hands down. Okay, this leaves me with 'Feel the Fire' to explain, and I can see how this one might be surprising, considering the vocals are relatively clean compared to Araya's gruff, fast-paced rapping. Well, FtF is just so much faster, visceral and in-your-face, the drumming has such a sense of urgency and the riffing is so fucking vicious and relentless. This is an album that was pushing thrash forward, as opposed to taking it through a side experiment of repetitive, slower riffing and other then-odd aesthetics (some of which, again, I'll concede later appeared in some early death metal, but this doesn't automatically make it extreme thrash). Yup, that's it, basically.

Oh also, on the whole "Show no Mercy is just tougher Judas Priest lol" bullshit, I'd like to address that once more, since it came up several times in this thread. Quickly, though. This is utter bullshit. Some people are so proud of having noticed (or, often, just read) that early Slayer was NWoBHM-influenced, and/or that it was "more speed than thrash" that they are far too quick to discard this quintessential thrash masterpiece as not being thrash after all. ALL early thrash was strongly influenced by Motörhead, Venom and/or Maiden and Priest, Diamond Head and what have you, along with Discharge and other punk, and ALL early thrash was arguably speed/thrash if only for the fact that open-string palm-muting was not widespread in thrash before Ride the Lightning, if not Among the Living. Does this mean for a second that this is not thrash? That this is some slightly angrier Stained Class? Laughing my fucking ass off while rolling on the floor naked. The comparison with Priest begins and ends at "awesome songwriting with plenty of well-thought-out chord progressions and poignant melodies", which is why Show no Mercy has always been and will always be the best Slayer album by far in my book.


No argument there, my friend.


Yeah, I cringed at this part as well, but not primarily for the same reason you did. What shocks me is not whichever incompetent trendy button-pusher he wants to produce the album (bear in mind Slipknot or SoaD is relevant modern metal stuff in his head), but rather how he phrases things as though HE was the band. He's been doing that for years if not decades, and at this point, there's a real possibility he actually believes this revisionist bullshit. Meanwhile, "his" band's latest set-list was almost exclusively comprised of Hanneman-penned songs...


Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not particularly thrilled by overlong, immature reviews that do very little in terms of analyzing the music and far too much in terms of freely and repeatedly insulting their perceived audience. Fellate RiB all you want, that's fine, but if you're in a "must convert the infidels" mood, fuck right off, thank you so very much.

I really value objectivity in reviews as well as using a neutral tone in those. However, I do enjoy a good editorial! It's just that, if you do an opinion piece, it's a bigger challenge to write an effective one. The quality of your writing becomes more critical than in review if you want to successfully pull it off.

A review is more like a news article. Its purpose is to inform you of something you were presumably not aware of. There's an opinion there but a successful review should allow you to figure out whether you should check a CD or not, regardless of the final opinion of the reviewer being favorable or not, simply based on the quality of the information provided.

An editorial is an opinion piece on a subject you probably know about. Possibly very well. It's goal is to give a strong, personal spin. As such, it may use much more colorful writing, depending on the writer's style. It can challenge the perception of some people, or reinforce your opinion.

When you're talking about an album like Reign In Blood, which has carved itself a place on numerous "best of" lists and is considered a classic for over a quarter of a century, reviews are kind of pointless. I think an editorial (positive or negative) is not a bad way to go at all.

I saw BastardHead's attempt as an editorial. It's rather good, IMO. Filled with juicy lines and humor. Plus, it made me want to pay the guy a beer because he's so fucking right

You know you do have a point there but dont mistake me for the "love it = it's representative" camp or whatever, my point was that Reign in Blood works as an archetype of thrash metal simply because its purely thrash metal and doesnt sound like any other genre, every single element in Reign In Blood can be found in other thrash metal records as well. Tremolo riffs, power chords, aggressive vocals, intense drumming, shredding solos, probably not as extremely emphasized but still its all there.
But yeah overall it probably doesnt represent the most typical thrash metal as it does the more extreme side of thrash like Spectrum of Death, Pleasure To Kill, Darkness Descends and stuff like that.


Ok but I still have to disagree with you on a few things ("mostly mid-paced affair"? c'mon dude wake up). Destruction's first 2 records might be vocally more extreme but instrumentally I think not, especially when Hell Awaits has THIS on it. That right there sums up my argument pretty well, only the MOST extreme moments on Infernal Overkill can even rival that, let alone surpass it as far as pure extremity goes. Certainly not songs like Death Trap (to which I even learned the main riff on guitar just to prove to myself that I'm better and more badass than Ilwhyan), Hell Awaits makes stuff like that sound totally lame in comparison!
Kinda same with Feel the Fire and Bonded by Blood, the most extreme moments on those albums can rival Hell Awaits but Hell Awaits is completely merciless 200bpm down right BRUTALITY for nearly all of its duration, apart from maybe At Dawn They Sleep and Crypts of Eternity which start off slower and even then both of those songs pick up near the end and totally kick everyone's asses all over the place. Overall the fast stuff totally dominates the mid-paced stuff on Hell Awaits, period.
Also "FtF is just so much faster" is a complete hyperbole, theyre certainly not going over 200bpm anywhere on the record, if even that. Besides, having some songs that are more intense than the least intense moments on Hell Awaits doesnt automatically make the whole album "faster, visceral and in-your-face".

Or maybe we just have different definitions for "extreme", when I think of "extreme" I mostly look into the heaviness, intensity and down right brutality of the music and not so much into the technicality or stuff like that. Dunno but if you dont agree with the stuff I have now written on this post then I have no choice but to agree to disagree.


Yeah but we also gotta consider the fact that Jeff and Kerry are the ones who originally formed the band, plus they write all the music. So basically, when Jeff's gone, Kerry is the boss. Plus it appears Kerry wrote the upcoming album all by himself...so yeah whether we like it or not Slayer is now the KFK Show and will remain the KFK Show until Jeff returns, if he returns.

Yep, exactly. I like BH and usually like his reviews, but lately it sort of feels like he's been trying too hard to go at this angle. People can have different opinions. Me? I don't like RiB. I just don't find it memorable or think the songwriting is very good. So the fuck what? These kind of people need to get over themselves.

Kerry doesn't actually sound that interested in Fidelman, it is the over-talkative woman interviewing him who mentions him, he just responds by saying he is busy.

Yeah.... it doesn't.... i'm an idiot apparently but it sounded post-worthy at the time. I think I was buzzed when I wrote this too actually

So, I've found a blog with info about Jeff:



Looks like Jeff was drinking in a bar past week and a Slayer fan saw him and talked with him. The guy says Jeff is healthy, he looks fine with no sequels or visible wounds/treatments going.

He (supposedly) said he was taking a rest of the 'corporate' state that Slayer became over the last years. Since he's the major songwriter of the band, he receives a paycheck for the royalties each month, which allows him to live 'just fine'.

Info Here

Tom Arya will star as the Walk-away Man in upcoming zombie flick Zombex

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1322140/

just popped into this thread to say that you certainly don't miss Lombardo live. The new drummer's a beast. I know there's way heavier bands out there and etc etc but man, Slayer are an intense live act. Me and my housemate (a big BDM fan, albeit with a love for classic stuff too) were really blown away. Count me in for seeing the Tom and Kerry live Experience in 2015.

Incidentally: the best songs live, Chemical Warfare aside, was all the stuff from RiB. I find it impossible to understand how you could prefer any other Slayer album over it.

I was wondering who the hell was filling in for Benante for Anthrax yesterday. Then I saw Slayer and realised Jon Dette must have been doing both for some reason.

I just dropped in to say fuck Greg Fidelman. He made World Painted Blood sound like shit.

Oh, and I sincerly hope that Slayer work their shit out.

Kerry working out? Ain't gonna happen.


Yeah, I suspect our criteria may be slightly different. Beyond that, there's something about Hell Awaits' pacing that apparently makes it feel slower than it may actually be, to my ears at least. I'm not entirely sure and I'd rather not further investigate, simply because I really dislike that album, generally speaking (just the couple of full fresh listens I recently gave it due to this thread left me bored and cold). But my best guess is that it has to do with the guitar sound lacking some bite, and more importantly the fact that some instruments operate on faster tempos than others. Most of the time, during the passages that are meant to be extreme and fast (presumably those that you and others perceive as such), the guitars are bordering on a blur in the middle, while the forefront is occupied by the reasonably fast-paced but not quite crazy or intense drumming and Araya's rapping, neither of which convey an "extreme" feel to my ears (not even in the historical context). So yeah, let's agree to disagree on this point. Thanks for your reply, by the way; at least we agree on most other points.

$layer really seem to be unraveling two key members uncertainly ejected and two more worthless albums to look forward to

Better than Lombardo? Yeah right...

He never said he was better. Learn to read.