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Kigo7
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:51 pm
Posts: 164
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:22 pm 
 

Speaking of Black Sabbath, I'm surprised nobody mentioned Bill Ward yet seeing as he used a jazz-oriented style of drumming that carried over into metal surprisingly well. Plus, given that Sabbath was one of the first metal bands, Ward was one of the first metal drummers.

In relation to Priest, was Simon Philips the better drummer or was Les Binks the better drummer?

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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1753
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:34 pm 
 

Ctrl+F "Hoglan" = nothing.
Ctrl+F "Terrana" = nothing either.
Ctrl+F "Jörg" = nope, still not it.

I must be in the wrong thread. :scratch:

With that out of the way, though, don't fool yourselves. Drumming is important, sure. Drumming can be the awesome boost that holds it all together or the awful weakest link that makes it all fall apart, right. But no single band was ever successful primarily because of the drumming. Not Dave Lombardo and the Slayers. Not Randy Foxe and the Manilla Roadies. Not even Dan Beehler and the Exciters. This is music we're talking about. Rhythm is extremely important, but at the end of the day, the notes come first.
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I would like to hear some recommendations of black metal bands/albums that sound depressive, yet sad and melancholic at the same time.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:24 pm 
 

actually Vigna writes all the drum parts for immolation.
So more and less hes an exceptional drummer who doesnt drum.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
Posts: 1077
Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:42 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
Drumming is important, sure. Drumming can be the awesome boost that holds it all together or the awful weakest link that makes it all fall apart, right. But no single band was ever successful primarily because of the drumming. Not Dave Lombardo and the Slayers. Not Randy Foxe and the Manilla Roadies. Not even Dan Beehler and the Exciters. This is music we're talking about. Rhythm is extremely important, but at the end of the day, the notes come first.


I don't think a band's greatness can be defined by any single thing. And I do think a lot of metal sucks and has a short shelf life aimed straight at teenagers with a short attention span because there is a total lack of substance as far as the rhythm section is concerned.

That and the misuse of dynamics are the two things a lot of musicians seem to misunderstand.

I'm wary of the notion that notes come first. I think this is a common sentiment but has led to a lot of shitty metal music. Power metal being a good example of stale shit where you could replace the rhythm section with basic MIDI tracks 90% of the time and not see any difference.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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DrummingEdge133
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 2127
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:51 pm 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
actually Vigna writes all the drum parts for immolation.
So more and less hes an exceptional drummer who doesnt drum.


^ This right here. Vigna writes some of the most amazing and interesting, hellish and pummeling drum patterns I've ever heard. "Father, Your Not a Father" is just absolutely stunning and captivating drumming wise. Really that whole album is in general. But, you have to give it up to Alex Hernandez for even being able to pull off all those weird, awkward and bizarre patterns, not to mention at the tempos that Immolation's music demands. It's pretty astounding. I think Alex Hernandez is one of the most underrated drummers in metal, and EASILY Immolation's best drummer. Not to take anything away from Steve Shalaty, he's an exceptional drummer too.
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Ancient_Mariner
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:20 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:58 am 
 

Les Binks' drumming on Stained Class is great. Really love the sound of his drums on that. Great performance too. But Priest has thrived with all kinds of drumming.

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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
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Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:59 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
I'm wary of the notion that notes come first. I think this is a common sentiment but has led to a lot of shitty metal music. Power metal being a good example of stale shit where you could replace the rhythm section with basic MIDI tracks 90% of the time and not see any difference.

You're not wrong, there, but I'd like to clarify "notes come first" (it was a hasty shortcut as I lacked the time for an essay last night). Rhythm is as integral a part of music as melody (@any smartass reading this and tempted to "correct" me right now: or harmony or atonal-disharmony/magic bullets/whathaveyou - for the purpose of clarity and the sake of mental sanity, I'll use "melody" here; what I mean precisely and anally put is "notes used and how they relate to each other", 'kay? good) and thus as crucial to any composition worth its salt as melody is. But rhythm is not limited to drums or even to the rhythm section. You'd be hard-pressed to find great riffs and great song structures that rely solely on melody and have a metronome-like approach to rhythm, even if it's just played on one guitar and nothing else. Great composers come up not just with compelling melodies but also with interesting rhythmic patterns, and ideally a great drummer (or whoever composes drum parts for that particular band) should enhance or even transcend those rhythms. A generic, lame-ass riff backed by mind-blowing drumming is just about as much of a waste as the reverse issue that you've pointed out. So yeah, to be more precise, I don't mean so much "notes come first" as I do "composition comes first", and composition seldom is the drummer's prerogative in music in general, and metal in particular. Therefore, the idea that somehow having an awesome drummer will magically a great band make is a fallacy.

You're right that the bulk of EuroPM has interchangeable drum parts, and that is a shame. I think it's true of plenty of other genres and much more so nowadays than it used to, say, in the 80s or 90s. One widespread practice I feel is largely to blame for that is the recording of each element one at a time, virtually always starting with the drum parts. I get it for one-man low-budget projects, but even bands with unlimited resources are guilty of that, and the common misconception is that this is a "modern" approach to recording music. Fuck that so, so deep. Bring back the magic. Record live in the studio and let the drums roll, people! Worry about BPM, tiny mistakes and other boner-killers later on, if at all. Music worth a damn is an artistic expression, not a chore.

And on that note, I'll be on my way to the sound of this godly-drumming-graced power metal awesomeness. :metal: :nods:
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Osore wrote:
I would like to hear some recommendations of black metal bands/albums that sound depressive, yet sad and melancholic at the same time.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:12 am 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
actually Vigna writes all the drum parts for immolation.
So more and less hes an exceptional drummer who doesnt drum.

Right, I didn't know that. What an amazing musician indeed.
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The Lions Den
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:20 am 
 

Pete Sandoval :bow:

thread closed.
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joppek
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:29 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
Hoglan


a great drummer obviously, but what band exactly do you think he was instrumental to?

the thread isn't just about great drummers in general
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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
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Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:47 am 
 

joppek wrote:
LegendMaker wrote:
Hoglan

a great drummer obviously, but what band exactly do you think he was instrumental to?
the thread isn't just about great drummers in general


Well, you know how the saying goes: if you have to ask, you'll never know. And yeah, I'm well-aware of the topic at hand, thank you so much, though. :D
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Osore wrote:
I would like to hear some recommendations of black metal bands/albums that sound depressive, yet sad and melancholic at the same time.

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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Location: York, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:55 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
Nicko McBrain might be the established drummer with Iron Maiden today, but Clive Burr certainly was instrumental on the bands early works. His work on the first three albums is unique and brilliant. Nicko is fantastic in his own right, certainly a bigger character than Clive ever was, but his drumming is less technical and simpler.

And for those of you slamming Priest, what's wrong with Les Binks?


I'll agree that Burr was more instrumental in establishing the Maiden sound (which was certainly well-established by 1983 and McBrain's debut with the band). Supposedly, Burr was the first "proper metal" drummer they had, and it shows. He was great on those albums. But still, in the 1980s McBrain was really quite technical and flashy (just listen to 'Where Eagles Dare', man!) when compared to Burr, I thought that much was obvious to those with ears. :P

Besides, I wasn't mentioning McBrain as an example of a unique drummer who defined a band's style, but rather, that McBrain never uses double-bass and is still a metal drummer (despite someone claiming that "it wouldn't be metal without the double-bass drumming").
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:14 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
And for those of you slamming Priest, what's wrong with Les Binks?

Slamming? Read again. Judas Priest had competent drummers, some better than others. None of them was very instrumental to Priest's success, is all. The way I see it, it was Halford, Tipton and Downing.
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:23 am 
 

How about Vince Verkay from Evoken? That echoing dread sound in the cavernous background is very much necessary in Evoken.

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
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Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:47 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
joppek wrote:
a great drummer obviously, but what band exactly do you think he was instrumental to?
the thread isn't just about great drummers in general


Well, you know how the saying goes: if you have to ask, you'll never know. And yeah, I'm well-aware of the topic at hand, thank you so much, though. :D


syl was always all about townsend, which was half the point i was trying to make (guess i should have spelled it out even clearer)
i'll grant you dark angel to an extent, but as good as he is, hoglan is such a drifter, he's built up a reputation purely around himself rather than an association with helping define a band, like sandoval or flo or... most of the others mentioned in this thread
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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
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Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:24 pm 
 

joppek wrote:
syl was always all about townsend, which was half the point i was trying to make (guess i should have spelled it out even clearer)
i'll grant you dark angel to an extent, but as good as he is, hoglan is such a drifter, he's built up a reputation purely around himself rather than an association with helping define a band, like sandoval or flo or... most of the others mentioned in this thread

Both bands got considerably better and, coincidentally, a lot more successful shortly after he became their drummer. Which, to me, is exactly the type of coincidence the OP is asking for, seeing as, like I explained rather extensively in my longer post, I think the OP's premise (that a drummer can make or break a band, basically) is a fallacy.
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Osore wrote:
I would like to hear some recommendations of black metal bands/albums that sound depressive, yet sad and melancholic at the same time.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:43 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
But rhythm is not limited to drums or even to the rhythm section. You'd be hard-pressed to find great riffs and great song structures that rely solely on melody and have a metronome-like approach to rhythm, even if it's just played on one guitar and nothing else. Great composers come up not just with compelling melodies but also with interesting rhythmic patterns, and ideally a great drummer (or whoever composes drum parts for that particular band) should enhance or even transcend those rhythms. A generic, lame-ass riff backed by mind-blowing drumming is just about as much of a waste as the reverse issue that you've pointed out. So yeah, to be more precise, I don't mean so much "notes come first" as I do "composition comes first", and composition seldom is the drummer's prerogative in music in general, and metal in particular. Therefore, the idea that somehow having an awesome drummer will magically a great band make is a fallacy.


It's certainly not all about the drummer. My point is more that it's about the whole band. Great rock composers seldom come up with the compelling stuff all by themselves. It's usually a team effort. If you've read other posts in other threads, you may remember I like to say "band chemistry trumps individual talent". It's tempting to talk in terms of "lame-ass riffs VS mind-blowing drumming" but that should be avoided because as you said yourself, composition comes first. And this is defined by the whole.

It's more than talent. It's working around the strengths and limitations of your bandmates. Sometimes, it's even about the veto power of your bandmates, if they have any. Their ideas, likes and dislikes. Have a solid guitarist jam his cool metal riff ideas with a drummer who lives under the terrible misconception that generic Helloween is amazing music. Then have him jam with a guy raised on a variety diet of Lombardos, Copelands, Brufords, Pearts, Moons and it is likely the riffs aren't just improved but they may morph into something else... notes included. And suddenly you are out of formulaic territory and gain not only quality but identity.

LegendMaker wrote:
You're right that the bulk of EuroPM has interchangeable drum parts, and that is a shame. I think it's true of plenty of other genres and much more so nowadays than it used to, say, in the 80s or 90s. One widespread practice I feel is largely to blame for that is the recording of each element one at a time, virtually always starting with the drum parts. I get it for one-man low-budget projects, but even bands with unlimited resources are guilty of that, and the common misconception is that this is a "modern" approach to recording music. Fuck that so, so deep. Bring back the magic.


Preach it, brother! :D

There are also other problems. I think some people can't see the forest for the tree anymore and focus on the extremes of the music. Again, turning it into a formula. A lot of metal has completely evacuated the bass, for instance. The recent Dark Tranquility thread highlights the problem. Basically, a lot of metal fans (many who turned or will eventually turn musicians) have been raised to think it's accessory to metal music. Just like a lot of them have only processed the fast double-bass drums from guys like Lombardo and concluded that's all he does and call him "just a good drummer, nothing more".

I really do feel there are a lot of interesting melodies being explored in metal but that it suffers a lot from an increasing widespread neglect of rhythm and dynamics since the 80s. Of course, it doesn't help that bands like Tool who dare not adhering to the formula are sometimes not considered "metal enough". So let's all settle for shitty bands that are "real metal" like Dragonforce, Cannibal Corpse and Bathory :puke:
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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Deviante
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:59 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:59 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
So let's all settle for shitty bands that are "real metal" like Dragonforce, Cannibal Corpse and Bathory :puke:

In what kind of a perverse universe is Bathory shitty? I mean, this is somewhat offtopic but I had to read that part twice to make sure I actually read it right. I did read it right, yeah?
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:02 pm 
 

Deviante wrote:
Riffs wrote:
So let's all settle for shitty bands that are "real metal" like Dragonforce, Cannibal Corpse and Bathory :puke:

In what kind of a perverse universe is Bathory shitty? I mean, this is somewhat offtopic but I had to read that part twice to make sure I actually read it right. I did read it right, yeah?


I will not respond without my lawyer! :-P
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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Deviante
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:59 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:08 pm 
 

Well, damn. If you were serious, then of course, you are entitled to your opinion. But that's not something I'd think I'd hear on these forums of all the places.

Not completely on topic but slightly closer to it from the top of my mind: Machinae Supremacy's earlier albums had somewhat rockish drumming for a power metal (of sorts) band, but it remained interesting and energetic enough. On their two last albums, though, the drumming has been much more powerful, metallic, with better fills, some progressive leanings (eg. Cybergenesis) and the energy is still very much there. Not to say that that is the most relevant thing about their songwriting or what "marks" their identity as a band, but it was the first thing I could think of right now, not to second anyone else's opinions here.
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ahr888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 am
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:36 pm 
 

I see a great drummer as one who can write good stuff so he sounds interesting playing drums. Having an octopus as a drummer who's working his rear off but doesn't do anything remotely interesting doesn't help. Most young drummers these days are pretty hyperactive, they're all over that kit- at all times, but produce little that is memorable. Silence is as important as sound. Which is why speed alone doesn't appeal to me in the least. You mention change and newer albums. Over time drumming has gotten more "extreme"- faster, busier, more technical, but I'm not sure it has constituted some major improvement over all.

One can't ignore though the mix and sound of the drums. You've got to allow the drums to stand out and sound clear. You can have the best drummer on earth, but if all you hear is the snare, it's not going to contribute much to success. And unfortunately in metal and extreme metal the mix doesn't do the drummer justice most of the time. Of course I'm not talking here about forum regulars with sensitive ears, but since we're talking about "success" and drums, the drums have to be noticeable not just to the expert but to a wider audience. Now if you have a mediocre drummer, then by all means, lower the drums all you want. But if I think of drummers that stand out and have contributed to the success of the band, a good mix and sound are essential.

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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:52 pm 
 

ahr888 wrote:
I see a great drummer as one who can write good stuff so he sounds interesting playing drums. Having an octopus as a drummer who's working his rear off but doesn't do anything remotely interesting doesn't help. Most young drummers these days are pretty hyperactive, they're all over that kit- at all times, but produce little that is memorable. Silence is as important as sound. Which is why speed alone doesn't appeal to me in the least. You mention change and newer albums. Over time drumming has gotten more "extreme"- faster, busier, more technical, but I'm not sure it has constituted some major improvement over all.

One can't ignore though the mix and sound of the drums. You've got to allow the drums to stand out and sound clear. You can have the best drummer on earth, but if all you hear is the snare, it's not going to contribute much to success. And unfortunately in metal and extreme metal the mix doesn't do the drummer justice most of the time. Of course I'm not talking here about forum regulars with sensitive ears, but since we're talking about "success" and drums, the drums have to be noticeable not just to the expert but to a wider audience. Now if you have a mediocre drummer, then by all means, lower the drums all you want. But if I think of drummers that stand out and have contributed to the success of the band, a good mix and sound are essential.


Well, the thing about octopus drummers is that they often aren't interesting because they're generally all fills and never really pull off any cool and intriguing patterns or ingenious little flourishes. Some of my favorite drummers (Kollias, Longstreth, Mike Heller, Lille Gruber, Dave McGraw, Dirk Verbeuren, Bobby Jarzombek) are human octopi, but they all know how to play to suit the song. Sure, you could make the argument that Kollias goes overboard at times, but he knows when to switch over to KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) mode, something that Tony Laureano had serious issues with on ITDS.

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Ancient_Mariner
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:59 pm 
 

Most modern metal drummers, especially extreme forms of metal, are largely interchangeable. They can play at a million miles per hour and have super fast double bass. And the drums sound artificial, clicky, etc. Often the production robs them of any punch as well. The drum hits should punch through not just be another part of the wall of sound. Then again most modern metal and rock sounds like shit due to shit production of all the instruments. LOUD LOUD LOUD! :brick:

Bassists are mostly buried. At least with CC you can hear Webster pop out now and then. I'm from the Maiden/Rush fan of base playing, let me hear that bassist do something other than mimic the guitar riffs. And don't turn it down so much you can't hear it.

Making an album sound great seems to be a lost art, but I guess when your target market is low quality audio devices they figure it doesn't really matter.

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AmberSilkAmbiguity
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:11 pm 
 

It very much appears that the direction of this discussion is very one-sided, at least on this page. There are no "certain standards" for drumming! There are many memorable and unorthodox "styles" of drumming occurring within the wondrous world of Metal. Absu, Akerockce, Deathspell Omega, Krallice, Borknagar, Melechesh, Immolation, Emperor, Mayhem, Meshuggah, Tool. Then you have the drumming of bands like Pink Floyd and King Crimson and other Electic Prog (excluding PF) bands of the 70's. Musical abilities and instrumental technicalities have no limits; in context "making sense" of the music and expression different forms of "emotion," "logic," pattern and ultimately "structure." Setting standards and limits, going back in time and pondering how it "ought to be" only limits, it confines, it's a paralysis and a critic's error.
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Liquid_Braino
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Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:25 am
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:40 pm 
 

Kigo7 wrote:
In relation to Priest, was Simon Philips the better drummer or was Les Binks the better drummer?


I saw Simon Philips live last year playing in this jazz fusion band and that guy was friggin' incredible. More than a few drum solos in their set, he was pulling off some crazy shit; I especially dug it when he was pulling off rolls on the underside of the toms, hitting upwards instead of downwards. Incredible feel and style...and considering the ridiculous complexity of some of the tunes he was dealing with (thanks to composer Hiromi Uehara), I was floored.

No doubt Les Binks was great too.

Still, I don't think these drummers actually defined Judas Priest's sound.

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Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:01 am 
 

Ancient_Mariner wrote:
Most modern metal drummers, especially extreme forms of metal, are largely interchangeable. They can play at a million miles per hour and have super fast double bass. And the drums sound artificial, clicky, etc. Often the production robs them of any punch as well. The drum hits should punch through not just be another part of the wall of sound. Then again most modern metal and rock sounds like shit due to shit production of all the instruments. LOUD LOUD LOUD! :brick:


The triggers and Pro Tools don't help either. Listen to some generic flower metal (e.g. Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce clones) and then compare the drumming to Rage's "Scared to Death" from 1986, which is also power metal (with heavier speed metal influence, granted) and has Jorg Michael playing almost nothing but double bass, but sounds almost completely different and far more energetic despite being slower than many modern power metal cookers.

And while we're on the subject of lost arts and drumming, reverb, oh how I miss thee. There's nothing like the skull-splitting CRACK of a well-done '80s snare drum.
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Riffs
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:10 am 
 

Woolie_Wool wrote:

The triggers and Pro Tools don't help either. Listen to some generic flower metal (e.g. Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce clones) and then compare the drumming to Rage's "Scared to Death" from 1986, which is also power metal (with heavier speed metal influence, granted) and has Jorg Michael playing almost nothing but double bass, but sounds almost completely different and far more energetic despite being slower than many modern power metal cookers.

And while we're on the subject of lost arts and drumming, reverb, oh how I miss thee. There's nothing like the skull-splitting CRACK of a well-done '80s snare drum.


Totally agree with you regarding triggers and all the cut and pasting going on.

But it will be a sad day if reverb makes a comeback to pussify the music. Nothing against a little reverb here and there but that was a fucking 80s plague we were subjected to because of homoerotic pop music and we're better without it!
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:14 am 
 

Just have to say don't be hating the reverb. I add it when it calls for it and it sounds super sweet. Not 80's huge decay but enough to hit a nice slide into the next strike.
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Woolie_Wool
Facets of Predictability

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:22 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
Woolie_Wool wrote:

The triggers and Pro Tools don't help either. Listen to some generic flower metal (e.g. Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce clones) and then compare the drumming to Rage's "Scared to Death" from 1986, which is also power metal (with heavier speed metal influence, granted) and has Jorg Michael playing almost nothing but double bass, but sounds almost completely different and far more energetic despite being slower than many modern power metal cookers.

And while we're on the subject of lost arts and drumming, reverb, oh how I miss thee. There's nothing like the skull-splitting CRACK of a well-done '80s snare drum.


Totally agree with you regarding triggers and all the cut and pasting going on.

But it will be a sad day if reverb makes a comeback to pussify the music. Nothing against a little reverb here and there but that was a fucking 80s plague we were subjected to because of homoerotic pop music and we're better without it!


I'm not talking about the exaggerated gated Phil Collins drums, I'm talking about the more restrained approach that was common in thrash, power, and speed metal at the time.

Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DStsYfVxNZQ

Or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVbKonkmA5I

Or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uATR1QkL4Nk

(Also I'll take hair metal over anything on modern rock radio any day. At least the hair bands could play.)
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8305
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:24 am 
 

My own band's record that we're putting together right now is loaded with reverb and we're mixing it with the intention for it to sound like it was done in the late 80s or early 90s, save for doing it on tape because no sane person would ever do that nowadays. This means that the drums are also all natural. A lot of this is coming from my own personal preference for the sound of albums from that era. I cannot stand the sound of many albums nowadays, what with being overly loud, incredibly dry, drums sampled and triggered as if there's no tomorrow, guitars made much quieter than everything else and bass being inaudible, and just generally not being very pleasing to listen to.
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Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

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metallicbrian666
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:19 pm
Posts: 99
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:18 am 
 

Mick Harris! Dude was key to old Napalm being so fucking good and later Napalm being so meh

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Axalcathu
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:45 pm
Posts: 317
Location: Kazakhstan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:49 am 
 

Erik of Aeternus - unique drummer with his own style. Still great on albums of Sulphur and Tortorum
Torquemada of Obtained Enslavement - he's left-handed and it explains his great skills. Blast beat monster!
Renpo Killerich - without Panzerchrist is not Panzerchrist. Exmortem isn't Exmortem.
Rickard Evensand - he made every band where he played unique.
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned Dave Culross. Half of fame of Malevolent Creation belongs to him!
And what about Frost, Horgh, Oskar Karlsson??

Seconding Henry Ranta.

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FJ Receptor
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:55 am
Posts: 198
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:34 am 
 

metallicbrian666 wrote:
Mick Harris! Dude was key to old Napalm being so fucking good and later Napalm being so meh


Hmm, describing Danny's work with Napalm as meh is really unfair to say the least.

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ahr888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 am
Posts: 317
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:40 pm 
 

That's an important point, that drums should suit the song. Drums should be another instrument and not just rhythm-keeper/speed-setter. And drummers that I admire are able to make their drumming integral part of the music.

Triggers themselves are not a problem. In a way they are a natural progression of the push for more speed. But they're often associated with a certain click sound, which can be a good thing if it suits the music. If you're doing hundreds of BPMs sounding full and natural would be messy. Sampling on the other hand is rather silly. Why bother recording drums in the first place, just use a drum machine or keyboards.

One thing that I've always appreciated is good use of toms and cymbals. Usually they're not particularly audible. A good production though should let you hear them clearly. Toms in a way have almost gone out of fashion, few drummers use them well because they're too busy hitting the snare 300 times a minute and hitting some washy sounding cymbals. Good use of splashes and chinas are particularly cool. Hitting a china fast 20 times in a row though isn't.

True that a good production is hard to find, perhaps because now everyone can produce on their own laptop because they can't afford specialists. Moreover, few dare to be different. Everyone follows the unwritten rules in their respective genres when it comes to production, in the case of death metal: wimpy guitar sound, inaudible bass, washy cymbals, clickety snare, equally clickety kicks.

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