Agree with BH on all fronts. I'm changing Equilibrium.

It's not the same kind of melody, tho. Sonata Arctica were a Pop Rock band back in the day (before having that name), as far as I know, and part of their melodies and progressions come from that era. They have a more catchy and melodic sound than bands like Hammerfall or Helloween, they are not as neoclassical and shreddy as Stratovarius and, although they use keyboards, they are not symphonic or folky like Rhapsody... the list goes on. It's a whole different concept, more melody centric, while not being as epic as the genre is on it's pure version.

Well if anything they've only gotten softer as time has gone on, so if they started off too poppy then I shudder to think what they should be called in their current incarnation. Ecliptica thru Reckoning Night is much closer to the legends and "generic" bands in the genre than what they're doing nowadays. You'll hear a shitload more Helloween and Stratovarius in a song like 8th Commandment than in one like Closer to an Animal.

Regardless, I did bring up this point in the modchat shortly after my post and it turns out Sonata Arctica was actually discussed some time ago. It was determined that yeah, their sound can be split between Power Metal and Melodic Power Metal at a certain point, but putting both of those in their genre field is super redundant so it was decided to remain listed as simply "Power Metal" for simplicity's sake since that's the one thruline between their two eras. So their genre will stay.

I was listening to Chastain and decided to check out their later albums. The Heavy/Power tag is correct all the way up until For Those who Dare, but everything after that is total groove metal.

Examples
Sick Society (1995)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcVWSpaZhAo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBX1O_c55iM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkpYWeyz1QQ

In Dementia (1997)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYOEwPB_CZE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfG6v5iKjG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN3OfQqdAaw

In an Outrage (2004)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMsxpSAIwyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ri1P6dNg3c

The last two albums since Leather has rejoined have some groovish bits but are mostly back to Heavy/Power

Can we get an update to say Heavy/Groove (Mid) or something like that?

Might want to add a "Folk" or "Acoustic" tag to Toter Fisch for their Pirate Folk EP "Bottoms Up Treasure".

https://toterfisch.bandcamp.com/album/b ... p-treasure

[edit/add]
Dawnfall needs to be changed to "Black Metal/Experimental/Noise", maybe. Or probably removed completely?

The last 4 songs of their full-length "Drei Räume" have nothing to do with black metal and technically...the whole album isn't black metal since there are no guitars involved, just a very noisy synth. It's more like "Blackened Noise" for the first part and Experimental Ambient afterwards.

https://dawnfall.bandcamp.com/album/drei-r-ume

"Arak nas" isn't black metal too. Again, "Experimental Ambient" and some folkish moments ("Zwischenspiel").

https://dawnfall.bandcamp.com/album/arak-nas

Their "Dominance of Darkness" album is closer to black metal. But here, the guitars are basically more like some constant fuzzy background noise with additional bass line than actual riffing. Here, I'd say that's more like "Blackened Noise".

https://dawnfall.bandcamp.com/album/dom ... f-darkness

"Rehearsal 'D​.​R​.​' 1994" & "Rehearsal Tape IV 1993" are the two only releases (that I know of) that can be considered to be pure black metal. Sure, they have the typical 90's rehearsal sound quality, but at least there are some actual riffs on them.

https://dawnfall.bandcamp.com/album/rehearsal-d-r-1994
https://dawnfall.bandcamp.com/album/reh ... pe-iv-1993

I feel as if Chrch are pretty droney sounding. Their Unanswered Hymns album has a lot of monotonous, funeral doomy, droney sections. Their track on the split with Fister is almost straight up funeral doom as well. I would honestly suggest adding drone to their label to make it "sludge/drone/doom metal".

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Lo ... 3540374512
This LOS MUERTOS band is being labeled as Speed Metal slash Hard rock. Then i happen to check out this band on youtube and find out, their music dont sound like hard rock. Heres the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5f5czL8rb8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H1PAkI-9-0

to me their music leans more in between of black rock n roll and thrash. So i suggest can anyone can remove the "hard rock" on their genre, to give justice for this band.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to call Nomadic (USA) deathcore as opposed to death/black?
https://nomvdic.bandcamp.com/album/horror

OK it's FINALLY time to update Twitching Tongues' genre. They are 3 albums past their current genre listed, and the last two have upped the death metal influence considerably. These guys sound similar to Xibalba but with clean vocals and more doom parts, so they need a new genre to reflect this. Here's the newest album Gaining Purpose.

And their 3rd record Disharmony

I have reviews up that explains the transition between their early records, but to reiterate: they've left behind the rock/boogie/ "stoner" influences for a while. The old genre might work for the demo and Sleep Therapy, maybe Preacher Man, but everything from 2013 needs a new tag. They are much heavier and metallic now, with the only bygone from that style simply being the clean vocals. Think of an extreme version of Cro-Mags - Alpha and Omega.

The base of their sound is Doom metal/Hardcore, with influence from slower death metal (Autopsy and Bolt Thrower being the biggest). But there is a weird gothic/alternative 90s metal influence as well: it's basically old Type O/Life of Agony/Alice in Chains with death metal riffs (both slow and fast), doom parts and 90s metalcore circle pit riffs and breakdowns. At this point I think they can be called Gothic/Doom/Death Metal/Hardcore. I'm no authority on gothic metal though, so if a mod can listen to these two albums and confirm if including that is accurate would be appreciated. They certainly have lots of weird gothic sounding interludes and quiet moments and such. Replacing it with "Alternative" or maybe throwing in a "groove" in there would be fair as well.

Please listen to both albums and let me know what you think! if a mod needs me to point out specific styles of music in specific parts of songs let me know.

It's been in the report queue for a long while already, so I'll post it here too...
I think that Hyde Abbey should be labelled as Melodic Deathcore, considering they borrow a lot more elements from Metalcore and Melodic Death Metal than from straight Death, Brutal Death, Grind or Slam..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeIGAXDH3Y0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxtDSjW2RzM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PmCijPlQXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RySpiaXZnmo

It wouldn't be the first band to be tagged that and it sets them apart from Thy Art Is Murder, Waking The Cadaver or Impending Doom and gives an idea of what to expect.

additional note for Hyde Abbey: the report:
https://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/630922

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Amorphis/1
I think that "Melodic Heavy Metal/Rock" it's too ambiguous when they obviously have melodeath, folk and prog elements.
I consider them "Psychedelic Folk/Melodic/Progressive Death/Heavy Metal" (long as fuck but it describes their sound).

Needlessly complex. We prefer more compact genres when/if possible, for sanity's sake.

I think Elder should be changed to psychedelic stoner/doom from just straight up stoner/doom as Lore and Reflections.... incorporate massive heavy psych/prog/krautrock elements. And Nick also discussed the more expansive sound of both the records in these interviews:

http://outlawsofthesun.blogspot.com/201 ... -from.html
http://www.echoesanddust.com/2017/08/ni ... rom-elder/

Alrighty, I'm back again. So, first I want to address this new Russian band called Вѣдьма. They are listed as pagan metal, and while the aesthetic is suitable for such a tag, the music doesn't seem like it to me.

Their album reminds me a bit of Katatonia's Dance of December Souls album. It's like some sort of raw, slow, doomy sounding black metal with a lot of depressive guitar melodies. Although pagan metal isn't a style I really listen to much, I know it well enough to know it should be at least a bit, I dunno... folkier? This just sounds like black/doom metal to me.

https://scarsofeternityrecords.bandcamp.com/album/--10

------------------------------

So now, I want to address an older band; Dutch doom metal band Moon of Sorrow. I've always been kind of thrown off by the "with various influences" tag on them. I get that they touch on a few different styles with their music, but I could better see that being described as being progressive than "various". It reminds me a bit of The Gathering from their Almost a Dance and Mandylion albums. They have that dreamy, synth-heavy doom sound with more up-beat sounding sections, which I would say sounds like some sort of atmospheric kind of prog metal.

I'd personally suggest changing it either to atmospheric/progressive doom metal, or progressive gothic/doom metal. (I specifically suggest gothic due to the more Sisters of Mercy sounding vibes of their final album, A New Dawn)

I'm on this.

I see what you mean. There are some pagan touches on it, so I'm going to call it pagan/doom, since pagan is mostly considered a black metal offshoot anyways.

I said I was on this! *shakes fist*

EDIT: Moon of Sorrow changed as well.

You can still do the one with 500 links! : D

I just did!

I think Tristania might be overdue for a correction. Early on they played gothic/doom metal, and the symphonic elements were only ever secondary to begin with and got phased out after the first two or three albums. They're definitely something different now, whether you label it "heavy metal," "gothic rock" or something else.

All of these are from 2005-present:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKXDCs_Bi8Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHYlRtXwBGs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx4FonOUE9E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RouqsMVQexs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFQrB1tq9-c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UAsa5d2HVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R14UFZPm3Ek

I have mixed feelings about this one, as Tristania is a band I've been familiar with for quite a while now. I agree that Widow's Weeds was heavily doom influenced, and Beyond the Veil and World of Glass had a lot of symphonic elements, both of which are no longer relevant to the band's style. That being said, their material afterwards is still very much gothic metal; it's just a more straightforward, rockish approach (kind of like Lacuna Coil's first couple of albums).

The way Silentium's genre was change comes to mind, as they were changed from plain gothic metal to "symphonic/doom/gothic metal (early), gothic metal (later)" to reflect the more melancholic, doom-driven approach of their first two albums. I wouldn't be against the idea of Tristania's tag being changed to match it; as their early material does indeed feature both doom and symphonic elements.

However, it could also be mentioned that gothic metal has always been the primary style for Tristania. All other elements have taken a backseat to the more mid-tempo, goth rocky vibes that have been consistent in their sound from the beginning.

My ultimate suggestion would be either to create early and later tags to reflect the difference between the first three albums and the later material... or to take out the symphonic tag and leave it as gothic metal to reflect their full discography, as symphonic metal is only relevant to their earlier material.

Doom elements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmaxFVNbYvQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV6uGMLkf6c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9fSgUvT5iw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6ZDjDS72u0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U9bTrYwC-o

Symphonic elements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4Zg5bB7yVc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z7h_5lWb_s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YK8vx8TbGc4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Wh_WPX3iD4

Bump.

I found a band that I care about seeing a change even more than Tristania; Brazilian band Pain of Soul. I have seen quite a few bands from Brazil be listed as plain old doom metal, when they were more like some sort of goth/death/doom hybrid, and this is no exception. This is the kind of stuff that Desire or Whispering Forest play; atmospheric doom/death metal. Harsh vocals, aggressive riffs (with occasional straight-up death metal sections), some double bass drumming here and there, and clean female vocals in the mix. It's not straight death/doom due to the latter most, but it could definitely be lumped in with the more melodic/atmospheric form of the style. Calling it plain old doom metal is just not accurate.



(a good bit of this track is just straight up death metal)

All Pigs Must Die
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Al ... 3540412292
Here in the page it is stated as Metalcore/Hardcore Punk, but this band just sounds like the tipical so called "Entombedcore" band, they use strong Entombed and swedish death metal influences in their riffs but with hardcore type vocals, another band that does this same style, is Trap Them, and they are stated here as Grindcore/Crust Punk, All pigs must die has crust, death, grind and hardcore also, but definitely not Metalcore, so I suggest to change them to the same style as Trap Them (Grindcore/Crust Punk) for example, or to (Death metal/Crust Punk)

Here are some examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU9z8mNClcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI5fSHiZkrY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLtzruIv-ew

The next 2 weeks have passed

This has always been a controversial band (in the subject of genre), but probably Progressive Grindcore could be appropiate.
They use weird harmonies, melodies and chords, a Prog Rock related rhythm approach and a bit of technicality, but they keep being Grindy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWskatnen5s

Toter Fisch: Changed.

Dawnfall: I didn't really check this out thoroughly, but as for deleting it, it's worth mentioning that there don't have to be guitars, as long as there's metal riffs.

Pain of Soul: Changed.

I'll hopefully be able to have a look at the rest in the next couple days.

Until We Die is Melodic Deathcore by pretty much any standard, so I'd like to request its genre be changed to that.

Proof: https://untilwedie.bandcamp.com/track/b ... ay-of-time

Cross-posting from report queue:

The current state of the Genre is oversimplified. Paradise Lost's last 2 release have no Rock elements whatsoever. A proper ranking would be: Doom/Death Metal (early), Gothic Metal/Rock (middle), Doom/Gothic Metal (late).

In order to avoid nitpicking and keeping everything simple, some things have been completely distorted. Plus, the above suggestions wraps up perfectly their whole musical evolution.

https://youtu.be/-kbUBqcCfgA
https://youtu.be/y3JSBpsv2hQ

I was told it was discussed here already, however, bearing in mind all of the above, I see no reason why not to change it as it is suggested.

No. The genre tag is fine as is. Not even one year ago five of us evaluated the whole output of the band (including their latest two albums) and agreed on the tag as it is now, since it covers their entire career and discography accurately. And it's simple enough.

I agree with the tags, I only suggested adding the seperate distinctive time periods, since it is a common practice. Right now Paradise Lost is not a Death/Doom/Gothic Metal/Rock band.

Of course, you are the ones to decide. I just pointed something rather obvious and needed.

Again, in early August last year the same thing was asked and the same thing was answered. A user even made the comparison with Rotting Christ's genre tag. Again, five of us decided it is accurate enough and complete enough as is. Also, if you take a closer look, it says "Death/Doom Metal, Gothic Metal/Rock", as opposed to what you just mentioned. There's no need to overcomplicate things here.

I think there is a "Black" missing in the genre tag of Blood of Serpents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTcXyPtme5U

I was informed that the topic at hand will most likely require discussion. Personally I think the genre is correct but it needs something added to it. Toxic Holocaust is a combination of Speed/Thrash/Black Metal but also has heavy influence from Punk, Crust especially. Joel Grind created Toxic Holocaust based on his love for Thrash Metal, Black Metal and Punk Rock, so I think the Punk aspect of the band very much should be acknowledged because many people don't recognize the influence, especially on the vocals and guitar riffs. The vocals are very crust punk influenced and the guitar riffs have that raw, dirty feel that crust has. I listen to quite a bit of Crust so I am very aware of the influence on the band. That's all I have to say, thanks

Well, maybe not necessarily Crust, but at least Crossover could be listed.

This album is definitely black metal.

The vocals are and the drums too, even though pretty clicky, but those extrmely fuzzy and pretty faint "riffs"/guitars aren't exactly pointing towards Metal there. Like those Ambient Black Metal bands with Keyboard/synth-overload and some faint riffing waaaaay in the back. Also, for the most part that sounds more like some sort of static used by Noise or even Dungeon Synth artists to make it sound as if it was ripped from a pretty old tape. I have to admit that it gets a tiny bit better in the second half of the album or at least in the middle of it, but I won't change my mind on this subject or the band in general.

Another month, another bump



Also, I wouldn't call Blazing Dawn straight Black Metal.

What I get from the only song available on yt is more like Epic/Viking Metal in the vein of Bathory's Hammerheart with pretty solid Heavy Metal-influences in the vocals.

The preview song on bandcamp is black metal with folk influences here and there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufXZO2RCfHA
https://narbentage.bandcamp.com/album/i ... urnal-moon