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MDL
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:12 pm
Posts: 363
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:35 pm 
 

GatorWine wrote:
So I know that there white metal and black metal but does rainbow metal exist?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH4wH1qbdcA

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Andreas_Hansen
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:44 am
Posts: 316
Location: Anywhere in the Galaxy
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:53 pm 
 

Maybe a stupid question because I don't know a thing about both genres, what's the difference between avant-garde and experimental metal?
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4875
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:04 am 
 

i use the terms interchangeably but avant-garde is sometimes used for bands more chaotic in their experimentation.

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true_death
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:47 pm
Posts: 1797
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:47 pm 
 

First time I'm hearing of this...light metal! Seriously, what the fuck! It's weird, but at least there's a proper place to label Demon now (the NWOBHM band, aka "softest metal band ever")!!!! Check out the Rush wiki page, where it mentions they play both heavy metal and "light metal". I guess they cancel each other out...
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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 2859
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:50 pm 
 

It's either metal, or it's not metal.
Demon has been playing AOR since The Plague.
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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:03 am 
 

"Heavy metal or no metal at all (whimps and posers, leave the all"). :-D :metal:

It's funny because when I was a kid around 1993/1994, I sometimes used the term "light metal" for Iron Maiden because I thought they were not heavy and even light during the twin lead guitar sections of their songs.
I agree with Opus (and Manowar!) that metal should be heavy or should not be. Then something such as "light metal" would never exist. If a riff is not heavy enough, then it's not metal but hard rock or just rock.
But here is a true question: when supposed metal songs use only lead guitars (which are not heavy by nature, and not especially metal sounding, I mean it could only be rock) without metal rhythm guitar's power chords in the background, then is it still metal? Or could it be called "light metal" :???: :lol:

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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 228
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:59 pm 
 

I would think that this is a better example of "light metal" than Demon, since Demon has a rock element in there sound. Check out Ashbury.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nZJuJCYR1I
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Opus
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:09 pm 
 

The problem is that it is not heavy, nor is it hard. So it's not even hard rock really. Light rock? That's just silly!
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Zodijackyl
Definitely Proportionate

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7395
Location: Longmont Potion Castle
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:22 pm 
 

I figure that whole Wikipedia article is a dig at Ghost.

Opus wrote:
The problem is that it is not heavy, nor is it hard. So it's not even hard rock really. Light rock? That's just silly!


It's just called rock.

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: France
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:18 pm 
 

Ashbury sounds to me like epic rock/hard rock with a touch of heavy metal. But I don't get why it should be called "light metal". There are rythm guitars and they sound like metallized rock : it definitely has a hard rock nature with metal hints in the sound (a kind of rockier Black Sabbath), and the spirit is metal (though not entirely the music).

Fore sure, "light metal" is a silly thing, who needs this sub-genre!? But if something should be called like that, i'd use it for metal bands that mainly use lead guitars without rythm guitars or far in the background.
But do lead guitar melodies really sound metal? I mean what's the difference beetween a rock and a metal lead guitar?

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Bates
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 11:28 pm
Posts: 76
Location: South Sound, WA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 8:24 pm 
 

The same difference there is between a rock and a metal riff. Tempo, phrasing, and scales/intervals used. I like a good, slamming low octave riff as much as anyone, but that's far from the be all and end all of metal.
As for the single guitar bands, well, that's what the bass is supposed to be for. Admittedly, lots of stuff doesn't employ the bass particularly well.
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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:47 am 
 

I can't completely agree with that. It's too simplistic and omitting major features.
What primarily defines metal cannot be the tempo, the phrasing and the intervals. Imagine a song using a riff or a melody in minor scale and at high tempo, but without distortion... It is not enough to say it's metal... I can easily find song with those criteria which are just fast alternative pop/rock.

What makes metal to me is where a riff differs from rock/hard rock by two points:
- the heaviness of the guitar sound and phrasing (in the way Sabbath did and made a major rupture from rock in this)
- the use of minor scale (which was not entirely completed by Sabbath, plus minor scales may sometimes sound rock or major scale sound metal). Or the use of intervals which sound more metal than rock?
It's still a bit subjective...

And I still can't make the difference between a rock and a metal lead guitar. When I listen to some twin lead guitar sections by The Eagles or by Iron Maiden, I hear absolutely no difference...

As for the role of the bass, sure it takes the place of the rhythm guitar when this one goes lead. But a basic bass sound doesn't sound metal, except when it's distorted...

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TheGreatDuck
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:37 am
Posts: 451
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:14 pm 
 

true_death wrote:
First time I'm hearing of this...light metal! Seriously, what the fuck! It's weird, but at least there's a proper place to label Demon now (the NWOBHM band, aka "softest metal band ever")!!!! Check out the Rush wiki page, where it mentions they play both heavy metal and "light metal". I guess they cancel each other out...


I just stumbled upon that Wikipedia article the other day and was pretty "WTF!?" when I saw it.

Anyway, anyone here know anything about "flash metal" a supposed genre mentioned on the entry for the obscure Canadian '80s hair band Dagger, where it's mentioned that this was their actual genre, rather than glam metal as one could deduce from their looks, and that Keel is another band from this genre.

I have personally never encountered the term outside of this entry, and would actually describe both bands as melodic heavy metal/hard rock (in the vein of Dokken, early Europe, TNT, Pink Cream 69, Praying Mantis, Pretty Maids, White Wolf, Stryper etc.).

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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1208
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:28 pm 
 

Is depressive rock a real genre?
The question is motivated by this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoBeMILqp60
It begins rather fast, but from 1:52 it's mostly mid-paced riff and beat. If it's not depressive rock, what is it then? A legit sub-genre of black metal? I've heard some similar parts on early Burzum and some Agalloch, but this sounds unique to me.

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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 2859
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:39 am 
 

raumr wrote:
Is depressive rock a real genre?

Yes
raumr wrote:
from 1:52 it's mostly mid-paced riff and beat. If it's not depressive rock, what is it then?

It's black metal. I don't see why it should stop being black metal just because it slows down?
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xenon8247
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:10 pm 
 

Morsay wrote:
Black grind ? Is it real ?

I've done some research into blackened grindcore, here's some of the stuff that I found.
https://open.spotify.com/user/xenon82/playlist/3hX0pcIpocResX0nSnqpNN?si=BElg33gEQGyBsDW6kE4gww
Enjoy!

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xenon8247
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:16 pm 
 

GatorWine wrote:
So I know that there white metal and black metal but does rainbow metal exist?


https://www.on-parole.com/shop/view/manowar-anthology-cd

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xenon8247
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:20 pm 
 

chinese_mafia wrote:
Am I the only one who is frustrated with every genre these days ending in "core". Deathcore, Metalcore, Emocore, Thrashcore, Nintendocore, Mathcore, Crunkcore.... Im begining to think they are making these genres up. What are your opinions on "core" genres, are any of them legit?


I'm starting a band with some friends under the name Metallica. We aspire to be pioneers of the sweeping new rock movement known as "plagarismcore"
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xenon8247
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:59 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:29 pm 
 

PrincessScarlet wrote:
Is "progressive war metal" a thing? Like bands that have Blasphemy, Conqueror, Beherit, etc. as their main influence, but have like proggy tendencies? (i.e experimenting with outside elements, fucking about with weird time signatures, that kind of thing)


Hmmmm...
Hopefully these are close to what you're looking for
https://open.spotify.com/user/xenon82/playlist/0oNqt3irfXpAWhzxNeXrGS?si=h9Y4UTCRRsqrNChkjOvdWQ
https://open.spotify.com/user/xenon82/playlist/64dTmtwEdBI2pmdEObSifI?si=1znRa3djTRaPkdnM1ufH_A

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Vtrpira
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:12 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:30 pm 
 

Is Raw Black Metal a real genre?

I read the topic about this, but it was inconclusive. There are so many different point of views.
So, is it a genre? What's the real difference between raw bm and bm? Which are some the major bands/artists in the genre?

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Vtrpira
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:12 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:05 am 
 

Andreas_Hansen wrote:
Maybe a stupid question because I don't know a thing about both genres, what's the difference between avant-garde and experimental metal?


I think avant-garde is a label for something like "setting a new standard, playing in a new way, innovating". Experimental is an obvious label. In pratice they're almost the same thing, but there's a subtle difference of concepts.

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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4875
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:49 pm 
 

xenon8247 wrote:
PrincessScarlet wrote:
Is "progressive war metal" a thing? Like bands that have Blasphemy, Conqueror, Beherit, etc. as their main influence, but have like proggy tendencies? (i.e experimenting with outside elements, fucking about with weird time signatures, that kind of thing)


Hmmmm...
Hopefully these are close to what you're looking for
https://open.spotify.com/user/xenon82/playlist/0oNqt3irfXpAWhzxNeXrGS?si=h9Y4UTCRRsqrNChkjOvdWQ
https://open.spotify.com/user/xenon82/playlist/64dTmtwEdBI2pmdEObSifI?si=1znRa3djTRaPkdnM1ufH_A


you are missing the mark completely

prog war metal would be something like axis of advance... but i cant think of much else tbh

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marthasimons
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:17 am
Posts: 4
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:31 am 
 

Dark metal seems like a real genre to me. And I hate it when people start saying that only those with suicidal thoughts can listen to it. I'm a cheerful dude and don't want to die any time soon.
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Auch
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 324
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:56 pm 
 

marthasimons wrote:
Dark metal seems like a real genre to me. And I hate it when people start saying that only those with suicidal thoughts can listen to it. I'm a cheerful dude and don't want to die any time soon.



I'm pretty sure literally no one has said that ever about dark metal.

EDIT: What bands are you thinking of as "dark metal?"

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marthasimons
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:17 am
Posts: 4
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:49 am 
 

Blackgaze has a unique feature in terms of the rhythm as there is some kind of mellowness. And you don't see a lot of mellow textures when it comes to black metal aesthetics.
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Osmiumthemetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:09 pm 
 

I've never heard a description of "Dark Metal" that was worth a damn. Usually it's said to be some nebulous collection of metal with black, death, doom, and gothic traits. I don't get where this comes from either since the record it was named from, Bethlehem's Dark Metal is simply a very doomy black metal record.

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: France
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:53 am 
 

I agree that Bethlehem's Dark Metal could simply be labelled "doom/black/death metal" (or "blackened doom/death metal" or "doomed black/death metal" ou deathend... fuck this tags). I think no one would have thought calling them "dark metal" if it wasn't the name of the album.
But some think this album has a distinctive sound (this particular mix of doom, black and death metal with an occasional "gothic" mood). If there is to call a subgenre, i think early Samael pioneered this kind of sound.
But should we call "dark metal" a subgenre? Not sure as I don't think it's distinctive enough, and moreover not very influential. Their music is primarily doom metal with black metal vocals and mood, and I can heard that compressed and rotten death metal riffing too mixed together with the other elements. As for the "gothic" elements, they are just kinds of accoustic interludes with low and gloomy clear vocals. I think Bethlehem's Dark Metal is not so different sounding from the early 90's doom/death metal scene, but with that dominating black metal vibe added.

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Osmiumthemetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 10:30 pm
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:57 am 
 

Light Metal just seems to be the resting place for all those '70s bands where people can't decide if they're metal or not. Light Metal already had a name, Hard Rock. Unnecessary genre.

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Auch
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 324
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:55 am 
 

Kalimata wrote:
I agree that Bethlehem's Dark Metal could simply be labelled "doom/black/death metal" (or "blackened doom/death metal" or "doomed black/death metal" ou deathend... fuck this tags). I think no one would have thought calling them "dark metal" if it wasn't the name of the album.
But some think this album has a distinctive sound (this particular mix of doom, black and death metal with an occasional "gothic" mood). If there is to call a subgenre, i think early Samael pioneered this kind of sound.
But should we call "dark metal" a subgenre? Not sure as I don't think it's distinctive enough, and moreover not very influential. Their music is primarily doom metal with black metal vocals and mood, and I can heard that compressed and rotten death metal riffing too mixed together with the other elements. As for the "gothic" elements, they are just kinds of accoustic interludes with low and gloomy clear vocals. I think Bethlehem's Dark Metal is not so different sounding from the early 90's doom/death metal scene, but with that dominating black metal vibe added.


You guys are having a discussion that started on literally page 1 of this thread. MA has a really good internal search engine that could have saved you a lot of time.

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: France
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:18 pm 
 

Well, what is written on page 1 doesn't imply it's the absolute truth and that you don't have to talk about that once again. And I didn't ask the question, just answered my opinion, which may be slightly different from "page 1". So, why not?

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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 1137
Location: Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:42 am 
 

Andreas_Hansen wrote:
Maybe a stupid question because I don't know a thing about both genres, what's the difference between avant-garde and experimental metal?


Avant-garde generally means being ahead of your time. So technically, avant-garde should refer to artists whom would be pushing the boundaries and setting up standards.

Experimental means experimenting, but not necessarly in an opening up paths new paths for others to follow kind of way. Experimental refers to more chaotic, less "trend starting" or "genre defining" music than avant-garde.

In practice, avant-garde is mostly associated with avant-garde black metal artists à la Arcturus or Sigh, or more humoristic and disjointed music like Mr. Bungle. Sometimes it's also used to describe most post-metal, progressive and atmospheric stuff like maudlin of the Well (or Kayo Dot) or Neurosis. I've also seen it used to describe bands like Agalloch because of how unique and truly avant-gardist they were.

As for experimental metal, I've almost always exclusively heard it being used for more technical, progressive and weird stuff, typically in more death metal or deathgrind territories.

I agree though that the boundaries are extremely vague...

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~Guest 118084
With a 120kbps bitrate!

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:05 am
Posts: 986
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:56 pm 
 

Is epic speed metal real?

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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 2859
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:32 pm 
 

No
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~Guest 118084
With a 120kbps bitrate!

Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:05 am
Posts: 986
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:04 pm 
 

Opus, actually there are bands on MA under genres that are listed as "epic speed metal".

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Kalimata
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:53 am 
 

Well, this may be speed metal that sounds epic?
What's your point?

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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 272
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:13 am 
 

Osmiumthemetal wrote:
This isn't necessarily metal per-say, but how many of you acknowledge "Heavy Psych"? It's really more a RateYourMusic thing that describes hard rock that is particularly psychedelic in a heavy sort of way; think lots of fuzz; basically Blue Cheer and Sir Lord Baltimore and Flower Travellin' Band and stuff like that. There are some (like myself) that would consider even early Black Sabbath to be heavy psych to a degree, particularly with songs like Behind the Wall of Sleep and Electric Funeral. Heavy psych is basically the precursor to what is called stoner rock these days.


I know this one goes back a ways back, but going back to me speaking of the comparison between stoner and doom, I'm wondering how much longer this wave of "psychedelic not-really-doomy doom metal/rock" bands is going to go on before "psychedelic metal" becomes a common term. I've found that there are quite a few bands on here that are listed as "psych doom" that are actually quite mid-tempo, catchy, and energetic, enough that it would feel more applicable to just say psychedelic rock/metal than doom metal. It makes me think of how there were a lot of doom bands in the 90's that started incorporating gothic influences in the mix, until gothic metal became its own style... or how stoner rock influences started being incorporated into doom, until stoner metal became its own style.

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dmerritt
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 350
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:08 pm 
 

I feel that Dark Legions Archive did the best job of explaining the differences. Metal is the genre. Black, Death, Heavy, and Speed are the main subgenres. Doom is Heavy Metal. Folk Metal and Power Metal are basically Speed with other elements added. What people call Thrash Metal is Speed. Actual Thrash is the hybrid style of Heavy Metal and Hardcore Punk sometimes called 'Crossover Thrash' (early DRI, Fearless Iranians...). Grindcore is not Metal, but a hybrid of Metal and Crossover Thrash.

'Epic Symphonic Black Metal' and 'Technical Death Metal' are not subgenres of Metal. Black Metal and Death Metal are the subgenres. 'Epic' and 'Symphonic' and 'Technical' are just adjectives.

I like this formula because the number of subgenres is static. It safeguards against fans saying 'X band created a new kind of metal!', which is almost never true, anyway. Confusing novelty with innovation is a big problem among metalheads and critics.

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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 228
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:43 pm 
 

"Doom is Heavy Metal"
"Folk Metal... basically Speed"
"Grindcore is not Metal, but a hybrid of Metal and Crossover Thrash"
How can you have so many things just plain wrong?
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TheUnhinged
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 272
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:06 pm 
 

Manic Maniac wrote:
"Doom is Heavy Metal"
"Folk Metal... basically Speed"
"Grindcore is not Metal, but a hybrid of Metal and Crossover Thrash"
How can you have so many things just plain wrong?


Yeah, I actually stopped reading when he said "Doom is Heavy Metal". That can be said for the pioneering and super traditional sounding doom bands... but doom metal is still very much its own thing. "Folk Metal and Power Metal are basically Speed with other elements added" I can't even really give a proper response to that.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 1718
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:29 am 
 

So, I know very, very little about death metal.

What are the death metal sub-genres that use pig squeals, and burping?

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