Absolute monster of an album. Has the Manilla Road touch but is different than their other stuff - somber, melancholic, even some Bathory touches.

Woke up this morning to some awful news. North Carolina-based drummer Carlos Denogean died suddenly either last night or early this morning. Circumstances currently unknown. He was a prolific musician who played in a lot of bands including Volture, Weedeater, Salvacion and Walpyrgus. He also filled in for Twisted Tower Dire a handful of times.

Gatekeeper played with Salvacion in Chicago at Ragnarokkr fest a few years back; we spent a lot of time hanging with him and his bandmates and we met up at several other festivals later on. He was a one of the friendliest dudes in the scene and had a lot to offer as a musician and we had some really great conversations together when we met up. He couldn't have been older than his early 30's.

He just put out a new single with Walpyrgus last week. This is probably his last studio recording.

https://walpyrgus.bandcamp.com/track/josies-talisman

RIP Carlos.

Tree of Life is awesome.

Edit: The Deluge just got added to streaming services for anyone interested.

I’ve been really into Witherfall ‘Nocturnes and Requiems’ lately and am writing for recommendations along these lines. I decided to post this request in power metal instead of progressive because those are the elements I appreciate the most. I’m digging the Sanctuary vibe! Please recommend American-style power metal that shreds, isn’t overproduced, has some bite, and hopefully moments of thrash intensity. Thanks!

New Sacral Rage album out this October!

https://www.facebook.com/cruzdelsurmusi ... =3&theater

Any samples available online yet?

I have high hopes for this one.

Not that I can tell, but my hopes are sky-high, as well. Illusions in Infinite Void might be my favorite speed metal album of the past decade.

For me I think it's still Immaculate - Atheist Crusade.

I had Dimitris K. and his gf staying at my place for a local fest we had here (Coroner and Diamond Head, fucking AWESOME) and I was there when he got the first mix of the album. I listened to two songs. GREAT. Then he got the final mix and swore me to secrecy and let me listen to the whole thing for the past two weeks.

I'll only say that Illusions... used to be my favorite Greek metal release ever. But that it might have a slightly better production, brighter. That or I need to hear the final mastered version with better speakers (my good headphones died and I have to use some cheap ass 8 euro ones). Other than that, holy.fucking.shit.

So, despite having a horribly generic name, Eliminator are pretty fucking cool sci-fi-themed retro metal. Their debut album isn't entirely consistent, a few tracks drag in spots, but the atmosphere and aesthetic are spot on. I particularly dig their choice of a more subdued, mids-heavy guitar tone; it's so easy to get a crunchy high-gain tone these days that many bands seem to have passed a sound like this up.

That Eliminator album is quite good but I liked their EP better where they more of a NWOBHM-influenced band.

They've gone through a lot of singers since We Rule the Night (which a good friend of mine sung on, actually - and I've still not heard in its entirety). They got one of the Skyclad guitarists to sing for them and I thought that was cool, too. I need to actually listen to something.

I do not mind the singer on the album. I just liked the more obvious NWOBHM flavour better I suppose.

Out of curiosity, why is "speed metal" lumped in with the heavy/power thread here and not the thrash one? To me that's an odd pairing. To me, Spreading the Disease is a speed metal album and Agent Steel is closer to thrash than Jag Panzer.

Maybe because to many the vocal similarities overrule the musical ones?

Oh my. I had this discussion many times and the the boundaries are very fluid. Would stuff like Messiah Force be closer to thrash? Iron Angel? It is a case by case basis and most of the people associate speed metal with the heavy metal scene. US power/speed is not similar to thrash in any way for example.

Yes and yes.



I don't think so. Megadeth was called "speed metal" by many.

Here is an early "Speed Metal" compilation that I used to own, featuring primarily thrash bands: https://www.discogs.com/Various-Speed-M ... se/5293633



Which band plays US power/speed that you are referring to here?

USPM <> speed. US speed metal is Agent Steel, which is closer to thrash than USPM like Queensryche, Jag Panzer, or Lethal IMHO.

See - I never considered either Iron Angel and Messiah Force to be closer to thrash. Neither early Angel Dust and the like. And if we go toward bands like Warfare or Bloodlust - both of those seem really amped put classic metal rather than thrash.

Plus many thing have been called "speed metal" which should not be.

As for power/speed - for example Riot's "Thundersteel" or Vicious Rumors' "Digital Dictator". Or Helstar discs.

Riot and Phantom are clearly closer to USPM than to thrash. I think it's pretty obvious we don't mean bands like Megadeth with the title of this thread.

Speed precedes thrash as a term. Came about the same time as "power metal". Speed to put emphasis on the faster bands, power to put emphasis on the heavier bands. We all know that thrash became the underground sensation and after 86 it also started entering the mainstream vocabulary as well. Power metal solidified to the genre we know after the Keepers, which left a lot of misunderstandings about these labels. In the 80s speed, power and thrash could be used easily for the same band, back when boundaries were fluid and the genres not really defined.

To me speed metal is not really a genre. It's an adjective to be used with a genre, like speed/heavy, speed/power or speed/thrash. People tend to use it very wrong because they use Agent Steel as the quintessential speed metal band, so whatever sounds like Agent Steel is speed (power/thrash with high pitch vocals? Speed!) but in reality Agent Steel got stuck with the label because they broke up before thrash and power got solidified as genres, so they were in limbo so to speak. Same deal kinda goes for Exciter. All the rest (like Helloween, Metallica, Megadeth, Rage etc) were placed in the appropriate box and there you have it. But in the early 80s (up tp 85 more or less) thrash bands were really mostly called speed metal bands. Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer included. I think it was Kerrang! and Metal Forces that popularized the term thrash. Reign in Blood which is the quintessential thrash metal album was advertised as Speed Metal.

Kurt Colfelt of Agent Steel/Holy Terror fame was asked the difference between speed and thrash and said "speed is older". Away from Voivod was asked what are his favorite thrash albums and said "well, I'm old school, so I'll go for the roots: speed metal!" and he said Venom, Raven and Motorhead!

True, I was responding to the idea that "most of the people associate speed metal with the heavy metal scene".

I've seen "Thrash/Speed" in many places:
https://www.allmusic.com/style/speed-th ... 0000002874
https://www.amazon.com/Thrash-Speed-Met ... ode=468416
https://store.cdbaby.com/style/96

To me, Anthrax is a great example of this natural evolution between the two. First two albums speed, the next few were thrash. They're very closely related.

Speed metal to me is one of the most dubious genres in metal. I would prefer Speed Metal just be called thrash. Thrash is a genre with enough variety to cover it IMHO.

Most people ask "what is the difference between thrash and speed?" and not "what is the difference between USPM and speed?" because thrash and speed are closest in sound.

I've never considered Phantom to be a speed metal band any more than "Painkiller" makes Judas Priest one. I can see a gray area here classifying Riot.

Agent Steel broke up in 87/88, which was when the thrash scene was in full swing and the term "thrash" was very popular by that time.

Take the the first Anthrax album for example - there is nothing "thrash" about that one - it is Judas Priest on steroids and turned to 11. That album is an example of speed metal to me. Classic metal turned up in intensity. I can see why the line might blur for USPM bands AND for thrash bands.

Sure, but Unstoppable Force was actually less heavy than Skeptics imo. They were power/thrash is my point. And back then you would hear people calling them thrash. Basically, by 1988 you would hear EVERYONE being called thrash, that label was very much overused. Chuck Billy calls Savatage thrash at some point. Anyway, the point is Agent Steel is the band that plays what most people call power/thrash but they also had the catchiest speed description "Iron Maiden on 45 rpm" so it stayed with them.

But back in the day, they were just one more band. US Speed Metal Attack, the VHS (great one btw) is Agent Steel opening for Overkill and Anthrax.

Speed Metal is in a sense the predecessor of thrash. But you have heavy metal, power metal and thrash metal bands being called speed. So, not really a genre.

Yeah, that is a total classic. Anthrax never sounded better.

Y'all ever notice how Cyriis sings on the Abbatoir song but not the Sceptre (Agent Steel) track on Metal Massacre IV? He sounds HILARIOUSLY bad, like he wasn't done with puberty yet. On the other hand "Butch Say" sounds incredible singing Taken By Force. Obviously channeling Halford, but damn. I'd love to hear more AS tunes with him singing.

(Cyriis developed into one of my favorite singers ever I just always thought this was neat)

Nah. Speed metal is the least strictly defined of the major metal genres, true, but the reason it's stuck around for so long is because it's a useful distinction that facilitates discussion, band recommendations, etc. This is a really old argument that was hashed out by the staff over 10 years ago. You're not gonna change many minds here.


No, people ask the first question because most people getting into metal don't know what USPM is. By the time someone actually knows what USPM is, they can usually tell the difference themselves.

Did anyone know that Canada's Assault put out a new release last month featuring unreleased recordings that were supposed to be their second album? https://www.metal-archives.com/albums/A ... ife/725400

I heard nothing about this. Is it worth hearing? Survival in the Streets is an all-time classic.

Damn Timeless Miracle said they were almost done there new album this time last year and they havent put out an update since.

Can anybody recommend similar bands? None of the bands in similar artists are what Im looking for.

If its unreleased stuff from the period it can be awesome (look at Black Death's unreleased tracks). What they need to do is to reissue Survival in the Streets - like you said its a speed metal classic.

so there is a special mark shelton tribute at KIT next year, was not planning on going but i decided to go anyway. Most likely the last time i will.

They respond on Facebook--like today, when I posted as a result of seeing this post! Mikael said they're still working on mixing, "but it's getting there."

Cool! Thanks for the update.

Hm, preview track for the new Sacral Rage album is out, "Necropia". Gotta say I'm kind of underwhelmed. It's fine, certainly not bad at all, but it's one of those annoying midpaced tracks that's just sort of...there. It has plenty good ideas but it lacks energy compared to the first album. I'd probably be a lot more positive about it if my expectations weren't sky-high going in, but I can't help but be a tad disappointed.

Still gonna buy the new album though.

https://sacralrage.bandcamp.com/album/b ... ial-echoes

The link for those interested.

I love Necropia and I think most people will find it a grower. It has a very cool Schuldineresque vibe in some of its parts that I like very much (those tapping parts particularly) and I absolutely love the verse (with lyrics or just licks). I would also say that this is not in my top 5 of the album. (The Glass, Eternal Solstice, Vaguely Decoded, Samsara, Suspended Privileges) - which now that I think about it means that Necropia is my least favorite from the album since the remaining two are the intro and the short instrumental. But I really like Necropia, so... yeah.

Thoughts on the production? I still haven't replaced my good headphones but I still think the debut had a crispier sound.

I still wasn't entirely sold on the debut, it was good, but a bit of the ol' "pat on the back" metal. It didn't come to much more than a sum of its parts, for me.

Thoughts on Wild Dogs' - Reign of Terror? I picked it up for a fiver recently and it sounds pretty cool.

My copy of 'Dreams of Eschaton/Mark of the Beast' finally came today. Played the whole thing while driving around for work. Beautiful, weird noodling with some truly bizarre atmospheres and soundscapes. Very unique.

Great album. Probably their best. Did you get the original version or the one with the bonus tracks to their unreleased album "Dead To The World"? Those bonus tracks are also very good.

I know someone here can me here. I cannot remember the name of a band, that I have stuck in my head, for the life of me. I remember some of the guitar licks, but nothing about their name or the album or song names. I know it's a long shot, but all I can remember is that the vocalist is pretty well known and is definitely unique within the power metal genre. More on the raspier side. The guitar work is intricate and layed under the vocal verses. The album art is this green nature almost scene and I think they only had 3-4 albums. Probably early 2000's. It's killing me that I can't remember. They're really positively reviewed I know. If anyone can help you're a life saver!

Pharaoh?
https://www.metal-archives.com/images/1/8/1/4/181437.jpg?0605