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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8303
Location: York, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:30 pm 
 

true_death wrote:
Frenetic Zetetic wrote:
Pestilence - "Testimony of The Ancients"

As a prog guy, this album still sucks all kinds of wind for me. Pestilence has always been a poor man's Dutch DEATH clone. Patrick Mameli writes stock semi-tech riffs that go nowhere, and those damn interludes that eat up half the album come off amateurish and rushed. It's like shit a 13 year old would think is cool after figuring out how to dub with two boom boxes.


All those things you mentioned make it Pestilence's best album, in my book. I personally think that's their most artistic and inventive album, because it's able to find a really nice middle ground that doesn't stray too far into any one direction, and allows the band showcase some really catchy riffs, amazing songwriting, and spell-binding lead work. I also love the interludes, as cheesy as they might be I think they contribute to the overall atmosphere and flow of the album.

I personally don't think Pestilence became a "poor man's Death" until Spheres, because that was when Mameli gave up his main strength - songwriting, in favor of trying to impress people with his musicianship. I'm not pulling that out of my ass either, he actually said in an interview around that time that he now despises all metal, including all their albums before Spheres, simply because it wasn't as technical as the jazz he had just discovered, and basically said that technicality was the only thing that defined good music :lol:. Regardless, the problem in my opinion, was that not all the musicians were up to his level and the album ended up sounding really stiff and stilted compared to pretty much any of their contemporaries like Death, Atheist, Cynic, or Atrocity.


Actually, Testimony... is their only record that sounds like Death. I think it’s like they ran out of death metal steam and decided to ape Death. Spheres is not much like Death, at all. It’s closer to Voivod than anything - with some pronounced Goblin influences, too. Still, the first two are still easily their best.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:45 pm 
 

"Spheres" is clearly trying to rip off Cynic, not Death or Voivod.

When Mameli heard Cynic at Morrisound he was blown away, he fired their bassist and recruited Tony Choy on the spot. He was a huge fan.

The interludes in Testimony were a rip-off of Blessed are the Sick, of course. Only the earliest Pestilence was really ripping off Death.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:55 pm 
 

Not necessarily metal (though the band are on MA) or even acknowledged that much as 'sacred cows', but I'll go in with the bat anyway......

Rush's 80s work post Signals. Seriously, why do people think records like Power Windows are any good. They're terrible. The production is super shiny and glossy and has dated vastly over the years. This is bizarre given that Rush incorporated modern tech seamlessly into their sound on Moving Pictures in a way that still sounds timeless, and then within 3-4 years of that their records are drenched in cheesy synths and sound like all the 80s cliches in the book. The band drop most hard rock from their sound and take on influences such as The Police and new wave pop. Fine to a degree, but as the producer they hired for Presto (I think) noted, Rush is one of the all time great power trio bands, and yet for most of these albums Geddy Lee no longer bothers with playing bass properly but instead mindlessly tinkers away at endless banks of keyboards. Talk about not playing to your strengths. He seems to have a weird glazed, faraway look to him for much of that time period, I personally think he had some kind of artistic breakdown but didn't realise it and thought he was genuinely being progressive.

In fact the whole band sounds like they're trying to make 'mature' and 'insightful' or 'deep' adult music but it seems so insubstantial. Ironically they were making much more genuinely insightful and philosophical records during the 70s, a period which in the 80s they seemed to regard as an immature and slightly embarrassing time for them, but songs like Mystic Rhythms and the utter shite that is Time Stands Still have held up much less well over the years than stuff like 2112 or Xanadu.

I can't take much of their 80s work seriously. The music sounds like it belongs on an advert for Goldman Sachs or any number of Wall St firms, the videos are abysmal (the first time I saw the Time Stands Still video with my friends we all burst out laughing and couldn't stop doing so for much of the song) the whole vibe of the songs is pretentious in the most unconvincing way, and the actual songwriting itself is just lame. There are a few highlights here and there but of all the '70s prog bands have 80s midlife crises' episodes, Rush's one is perhaps the most crazy. Yet on several message boards that I read (including this one to a degree) this period of the band gets rated really highly and it's the same on most Youtube comments. It's bizarre, quite frankly.

I remember that the last time Rush toured in my hometown my friend and I considered seeing them, but were put off by the high ticket prices. Later I found out that their set list had consisted of their last album played in full (OK but not that exciting), a whole hour or so of stuff from their 80s albums, and then a few 70s songs for an encore. I'm glad I didn't go, because if that had been my only live experience of Rush, boy would I have been annoyed.


Last edited by Cosmic_Equilibrium on Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:59 pm 
 

Pestilence: Maleus and Testimony are both awesome and very different, Then Consuming Impulse and then two songs from Spheres (Mind Reflection and Spheres really).

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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:18 pm 
 

I have mixed feelings on synth-era Rush. Signals is amazing for basically being Moving Pictures II and Grace Under Pressure has a distinctly cold, almost post punk tone that I absolutely love. Power Windows and Hold Your Fire lost the plot as the writing wasn't that great and got coated in endless layers when it actually was. I don't think it's bad material but it doesn't make much of a lasting impression. That said, I am rather iffy on Rush's 90s albums. Counterparts is pretty great, but Roll the Bones and Test for Echo are in that limbo where they're well put together but not very engaging. There are songs that I like but they're rather flat overall.

Also as a doom guy, I find it somewhat odd that I really can't get into extreme sludge. They all have a lot of energy and emotion behind them, but even the good ones like Eyehategod don't seem to write songs so much as stuff that happens. I know the genre is more about the experience and it sounds massive live, but I spend the whole time wishing I could tell the songs apart.
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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:12 pm 
 

The last time Rush played on the R40 tour they were doing a killer set that moved back in their history from Clockwork Angels (excellent record) back to the debut. Was an amazing set.

As for 80's Rush. I love Signals and P/G is a masterpiece. Power Windows I don't have but the couple cuts off the best of were OK but I doubt I'll pick it up anytime soon. After P/G they were spotty but still good with some great songs like Time Stand Still, Cold Fire, Animate, The Pass, and yes Roll the Bones, but some stuff I don't care for that much. In any event I'm glad they didn't just make Farewell to Kings or Moving Pictures over and over as much as I love those records.

I do find it funny when people say things like "How can anyone think this is good!" I mean I personally find the classic Darkthrone albums to be simplistic garbage, but I realize that others want different things and get different things from music than I do.

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true_death
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:13 pm 
 

Acrobat wrote:
Actually, Testimony... is their only record that sounds like Death. I think it’s like they ran out of death metal steam and decided to ape Death. Spheres is not much like Death, at all. It’s closer to Voivod than anything - with some pronounced Goblin influences, too. Still, the first two are still easily their best.


I know, I was referring more to the timing of the whole genre shift and overall result than the music itself because it's kind of a "me too" album, if you ask me - and Death being arguably the most successful band in that style and the band Pestilence is most often compared to, I just used the phrase "poor man's Death" to tie back in to his original post about Testimony.

Also, you don't think Consuming Impulse sounds like Death? I always saw that album as Europe's answer to Leprosy (with Testimony being Spiritual Healing/Human, I guess).
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:27 pm 
 

I don't think any classic bands are "sacred cows", I think it's commonly accepted fact (or should be) that everyone who is into a genre doesn't like every band. Famous example is that among German thrash fans, most people you meet love two of the "big three" of German thrash and dislike the third, and the debates over which ones are great and which one sucks are historically part of the fun. Another famous example is that there was some historical competition between Priest and Maiden fans, a lot of Priest fans disliking Maiden and vice versa. So I don't think any of those classic bands are sacred cows. It's like for me, I love old school death metal, but I can't stand Deicide. I love Norwegian black metal, but I can't stand Immortal. Perfectly normal that not every classic impresses you even if you love a style.

When I think of the term "sacred cows" I think more of stuff that seems to be near-universally adored and almost never criticised. I just saw another 100% review for the first Acid Bath album and that is one of those bands that everyone who listens to them seems to love and no one ever seems to criticise - I'm no exception there. Another one is the first two Mercyful Fate albums, they're up on a very high pedestal. Again in my opinion for good reason, but it's strange sometimes how universally praised and rarely criticised they are. Or obviously Bolt Thrower. That's what I think of when I hear the term "sacred cows", not the many classics named in this thread that have been slammed many times in the past by the many people who are just not into them.
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Flem Clone
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:59 pm 
 

Since this is basically an unpopular opinions thread, and there was some talk above about Pestilence ripping off Death, I'm going to go ahead and say that I think Consuming Impulse is better than any Death release.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:04 pm 
 

Ace_Rimmer wrote:
I do find it funny when people say things like "How can anyone think this is good!" I mean I personally find the classic Darkthrone albums to be simplistic garbage, but I realize that others want different things and get different things from music than I do.


Yeah, seriously. Not something I can see people saying past like age 15 really.

Signals is a marvelous work with beautiful melodies but admittedly is a bit obtuse and I am not always in the mood. Grace Under Pressure is better and feels like their classic stuff just with way more synths. "Distant Early Warning" and "Red Alert" in particular, just great tunes.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:14 pm 
 

Most stuff that I don't like I can at least understand why other people do, to a degree at least. I find death metal to be a very boring genre personally, but I can see why people enjoy it and listen to it, ditto DLR era Van Halen which although very overrated I can get how it attracts an audience.

There are though some things that just seem non-understandable to me, and 80s Rush is one of them. Power Windows sounds so dated, and yet not many people seem to think this an issue, whereas other 80s music with similarly dated sounds gets criticised for that aspect a little more often somewhat. On reflection, I can get why people would listen to it to a certain extent, but it baffles me as to how it could be considered classic, which some people seem to view that era of Rush as being.

To me, it seems very clear that the band in that period were forcing themselves creatively, playing music that's trying really hard to be 'mature' but it just doesn't sound convincing at all. Strange.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:24 pm 
 

Not sure what's baffling about it. Different tastes is all it is... personally Signals and Grace Under Power sound like the stuff they were making on Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures with some new elements to me. Not weird to me at all. I haven't heard Power Windows yet though.

Frankly I don't really get into this whole debate about whether "mature" in quote marks is so bad. It's just a quality that happens when a band continues to get older and create art. Not really good or bad to me, it's just the quality of the music that matters on an individual basis.
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k311250
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:38 pm 
 

Burzum.

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InnesI
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:49 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
InnesI wrote:

No matter if one thinks Altars of Madness is good or not it is quite clearly a camouflaged thrash metal album. Not that much on it is pure death metal even though it is clearly taking steps towards what would become Morbid Angel as a death metal band.


This kind of stuff is just silly. It's not a thrash album... the vocals, the writing, etc are more intense and twisted. It's a death metal album, albeit an early one that was just forming the sound. It's not gonna sound like a later period Nile album or something, is all. The way it's done isn't like any thrash album except for the crisper, sharper sound of the guitars. The actual writing is death metal. I feel like comments like this don't take into account the fluidity of genres back then, and how fast things were evolving. To say Altars sounds like an Overkill or even a Kreator album just doesn't make much sense to me I guess.


No one said Altars sound like Overkill or Kreator, I think however that we basically think the same thing about genre fluidity but I land on the side of it being more thrashy and you on the side of it being more of a death metal record. For me I think the one thing that tips it over is the lyrical patterns, especially in the choruses. Maze of Torment is a good example of what I mean. The intro, the verse and the chorus are very thrashy while the death metal spice in general is added in between those parts (and short interlude part). Even the guitar solos sound like they fit on a thrash album.

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booK_of_blood
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:54 pm 
 

Ripping Corpse's Dreaming with the Dead is unbearably bad on every level. It's so bad, it's almost comical, especially the vocals. A joke of an album.
And AFAIC, Spheres simply obliterates Focus in every possible criterion.

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Ace_Rimmer
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:54 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Not sure what's baffling about it. Different tastes is all it is... personally Signals and Grace Under Power sound like the stuff they were making on Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures with some new elements to me. Not weird to me at all. I haven't heard Power Windows yet though.

Frankly I don't really get into this whole debate about whether "mature" in quote marks is so bad. It's just a quality that happens when a band continues to get older and create art. Not really good or bad to me, it's just the quality of the music that matters on an individual basis.


Yep. Rush got older and wrote differently and wrote songs that appeal to me a lot more at 45 than they did at 25, Time Stand Still and Afterimage for example hit me very hard now that I've buried friends and seen people I love pass away.


Last edited by Ace_Rimmer on Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thy Shrine
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:06 pm 
 

booK_of_blood wrote:
Ripping Corpse's Dreaming with the Dead is unbearably bad on every level. It's so bad, it's almost comical, especially the vocals. A joke of an album.
And AFAIC, Spheres simply obliterates Focus in every possible criterion.



Disagree on both counts here, that Ripping Corpse album fucking uhh, uhh ... RIPS. And in my opinion was probably the first of the more dissonant DM albums. I mean DM had gone proggy at this point, but not many were writing these "odd" riffs like RC were. In fact, I think that whole New Jersey Death metal scene was probably the original dissonant dm scene. Human Remains, Damonacy, Embrionic Death, Cross Fade, and not forgetting NY dm, Suffocation was an odd and more compositionally different than a lot of bands and surely must of had an impact on that strand of dm. And of course bands like Immolation and Incantation could be mentioned as well.

Spheres is quite a remarkable album, but I still prefer Focus to it a little bit, because I just love the technicality of it, and I actually think the songwriting is very good, and interesting. In terms of early prog death, I always felt Atheist was the worst of those bands, not bad at all, great actually, but lesser than a Pestilence, Death, or Cynic.

Pestilence's first four albums all are brilliant, so there's that.

And, no way in hell is Altars of Madness a thrash record. Perhaps thrash inspired, but as Empyreal said, much more twisted, and intense. In fact just read his posts on the matter, and that's all you need to know.
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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:49 pm 
 

I tend to agree with cosmic equilibrium's view on Rush- I loved everything up till and including "Signals" but after "Grace Under Pressure" I kind of gave up on them- they just got too lightweight, over-produced and boring. I've heard this opinion shared by a lot of people so we are not alone; it isn't just that they "wimped out" but rather, their "Wimpy" music really had nothing interesting going for it.

It's all a matter of preference; take Death for example. I love the first two albums but everything after "Spiritual Healing" just kind of loses me. It's still good; I am not knocking it, but it doesn't have that immediate ass-kick that the early stuff did. Some people love the later stuff and find "Scream Bloody Gore" a bit childish, and yeah, I get that- lyrically it IS childish, I gotta admit. I'm pretty sure even Chuck himself was embarrassed by those early albums later on in his career. But it just had such uncompromising bludgeoning heaviness to it that at the time, I was blown away, and I still dig listening to it even now.

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HaPoStaPu
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:07 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
When I think of the term "sacred cows" I think more of stuff that seems to be near-universally adored and almost never criticised. I just saw another 100% review for the first Acid Bath album and that is one of those bands that everyone who listens to them seems to love and no one ever seems to criticise - I'm no exception there.


I skipped through the Acid Bath albums a while ago as they seem to have many good reviews, didn't do much for me. Might give it another listen to see if I've changed my mind.

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Spiner202
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:04 am 
 

I am glad to see I'm not the only person struggling to appreciate the classic Swedish death metal sound. There are some good songs and records from those bands, but I don't find them remotely comparable to the Florida bands in terms of quality. The fact that they tune so low, and there's so much buzzing, makes every song sound really similar. Of the classic bands (Entombed, Dismember, Unleashed, Grave, and Carnage), the only one that I really enjoy is Unleashed. They're the only one of these bands where I can easily pick out songs, although I find that people focus more on their debut album than the second or third records (which I prefer).

I will also throw some shade at Accept. Balls to the Wall is a great record, but the few I've heard outside of that don't get it done for me. It's not that they're musically incoherent or even bad songs, but by 2018, I've just heard so many bands that write standard heavy metal in the vein they play, that you need truly exceptional songs to stand out. I can appreciate why this would have been great when it first came out, but only Balls to the Wall continues to stand up. There are still some enjoyable songs scattered throughout the catalogue, but they aren't really a top-tier German heavy metal band to me.
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Rippingheadache
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:04 am 
 

Demigod - Slumber of Sullen Eyes

I mean it's alright for me I guess. I dig the gloomy, oppressive atmosphere but I always find myself being bored 4-5 songs in. Much prefer Demilich, Adramelech and Xysma for my Finndeath fix.

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true_death
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:16 am 
 

Rippingheadache wrote:
Demigod - Slumber of Sullen Eyes

I mean it's alright for me I guess. I dig the gloomy, oppressive atmosphere but I always find myself being bored 4-5 songs in. Much prefer Demilich, Adramelech and Xysma for my Finndeath fix.


I know what you mean, I had the Xtreem Records reissue and always thought it was good, but somehow missing something and nowhere near as good as Convulse, for example. Then, I scored an original press (for like $3 at a record store)...it wasn't until I played it that the album really sunk in for me. I'm not sure if they remixed or remastered that reissue, but the sound quality is definitely superior in every conceivable way on the original - sounds more "organic", I guess. Now I'd rank it as one of the best Finnish albums, along with "World Without God", "Yeah", "Shadows of Past", etc...
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Rippingheadache
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:59 pm 
 

I'll definitely cop an original issue if I'm ever lucky enough to come across one. Maybe then I'll change my mind.

The thing is it's always been a "mood" album for me. The first half is really strong, with lots of twists and turns but then I'm fighting to stay awake once track 5 hits. World Without God, on the other hand, is much more consistently engaging. Forgot about those guys for a sec.

@booK_of_blood

Bruh...

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booK_of_blood
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:06 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
When I think of the term "sacred cows" I think more of stuff that seems to be near-universally adored and almost never criticised. I just saw another 100% review for the first Acid Bath album and that is one of those bands that everyone who listens to them seems to love and no one ever seems to criticise - I'm no exception there.


Sounds to me like a perfect description for Incantation, a band I could not stand from the get go, so many years ago when I had purchased the debut looking forward for some quality death metal, and it never showed its ugly face. I kept asking myself, where's the fucking music?.

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colin040
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:22 pm 
 

true_death wrote:
Acrobat wrote:

Also, you don't think Consuming Impulse sounds like Death? I always saw that album as Europe's answer to Leprosy (with Testimony being Spiritual Healing/Human, I guess).


To me that album sounds much more advance than Death's early stuff.

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Osmiumthemetal
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:15 pm 
 

I always thought Consuming Impulse sounded a lot more technical and was further removed from thrash than Death's contemporary records. They definitely sound different from one another.

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Thy Shrine
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:39 pm 
 

Yeah, Consuming Impulse is probably more technical than a Leprosy. In fact, Pestilence were always a little more creative, technically, and song structure wise. And let's not forget how surgical and precise Malleus Maleficarum was either.

Oh, here's a kind of unpopular opinion, Demilichs uniqueness is kind of overstated. They were a little different from your average DM band at the time, but so we're the other Finnish death metal bands who were always a lot more slimy, and alien compared to other scenes. Convulse, Demigod, Funebre, Anathema(not Serenades Anathema), and others always had weird riffs and melodies that were unique to that scene.

Not to mention that Entombed have NOTHING on Nihilist. I love LHP as much as anyone, but nothing defeats those fucking demos, some of the best metal ever written. And the version of Severe Burns on Clandestine is COMPLETE dogshit in comparison to the original, which is just a fucking amazing out of this world masterpiece.
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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:41 pm 
 

I... hate this. It’s hyperbolic and stupid.

Left Hand Path is one of the greatest albums of all time. Fuck yo shit.

That is all.
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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:52 pm 
 

Thy Shrine wrote:
Not to mention that Entombed have NOTHING on Nihilist. I love LHP as much as anyone, but nothing defeats those fucking demos, some of the best metal ever written. And the version of Severe Burns on Clandestine is COMPLETE dogshit in comparison to the original, which is just a fucking amazing out of this world masterpiece.

Actually, funny enough, the prime reason why Nihilist isn't better than Entombed is that the best song recorded under either band name was only released under the Entombed moniker.
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StainedClass95
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:08 pm 
 

Spiner202 wrote:

I will also throw some shade at Accept. Balls to the Wall is a great record, but the few I've heard outside of that don't get it done for me. I can appreciate why this would have been great when it first came out, but only Balls to the Wall continues to stand up.


Interesting, Balls to the Wall has never done much for me in large part because it feels pretty dated to that era with a lot of obvious effort to streamline and get a hit. Restless and Wild and to a lesser-extent Breaker are their main releases that I gravitate to with an occasional listen to some of the others.

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Thy Shrine
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:24 pm 
 

I like Left Hand Path quite a bit, but I fucking LOVE me some Nihilist.

I would still say Severe Burns by Nihilist is their best song under either moniker.

Dark Recollections is a better record than Left Hand Path too.
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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:56 am 
 

Whenever I think of "Balls to the Wall" I always think of Beavis and Butthead making fun of it.

Which is kind of too bad because I really loved that album when it first came out. A lot of Accept sounds really dated to my ears now, but every now and again I'll break out some of those old albums for nostalgia sak- "Metal Heart" and "Restless and Wild" are both classic albums as well.

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InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1322
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:51 am 
 

Rodman wrote:
What are the 'classic' albums that don't live up to the hype?


The question is a tough one or an easy one depending on how serious one is to take it. For example; there are loads of albums (and bands) that I find are over hyped because I don't like them. I'm not a big Iron Maiden fan for example which means that all of the 90%+ reviews for their albums means that I might find them to be overrated.

It is a whole other thing though for a band to be regarded as ground breaking but where historical evidence says they really weren't. In the case of Iron Maiden I think few would deny their enormous impact on the metal scene at large. I can think whatever I want about their music but as an important band in the history of metal music no one can deny they are one of the greatest acts of all time.

And quite honestly if we take the OT-question seriously and in the narrow sense its hard to come up with any good examples. In the present one may come up with albums that are very much hyped and perhaps not being worthy of it. However with time that usually dies off. Because if an album isn't important it tends to not be regarded as important either. One example of this might be Fleshgod Apocalypse that loads of people seemed to praise a few years back. Today I hear almost no one talking about them.

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Mass Suicide
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:32 am
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:57 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
I don't think any classic bands are "sacred cows", I think it's commonly accepted fact (or should be) that everyone who is into a genre doesn't like every band. Famous example is that among German thrash fans, most people you meet love two of the "big three" of German thrash and dislike the third, and the debates over which ones are great and which one sucks are historically part of the fun. Another famous example is that there was some historical competition between Priest and Maiden fans, a lot of Priest fans disliking Maiden and vice versa. So I don't think any of those classic bands are sacred cows. It's like for me, I love old school death metal, but I can't stand Deicide. I love Norwegian black metal, but I can't stand Immortal. Perfectly normal that not every classic impresses you even if you love a style.

When I think of the term "sacred cows" I think more of stuff that seems to be near-universally adored and almost never criticised. I just saw another 100% review for the first Acid Bath album and that is one of those bands that everyone who listens to them seems to love and no one ever seems to criticise - I'm no exception there. Another one is the first two Mercyful Fate albums, they're up on a very high pedestal. Again in my opinion for good reason, but it's strange sometimes how universally praised and rarely criticised they are. Or obviously Bolt Thrower. That's what I think of when I hear the term "sacred cows", not the many classics named in this thread that have been slammed many times in the past by the many people who are just not into them.


Very good points. Personally, I started with Iron Maiden but never really got into Judas Priest, and now it's too late because there is simply no place left for them. Also, I worship Venom but never liked Motörhead, while on the other hand there are countless people that like Bathory but hate Venom (most prominent example would be Varg Vikernes).

I am not saying that those bands suck, I totally respect their status and I also like some of their songs, but I am just not a fan of them and never bought any of their albums. But some people look at you like if you have AIDS if you state something like that.

By the way, I don't think Mercyful Fate (and King Diamond) are universally praised. I know MANY old-school Metalheads with a very solid background and knowledge of the genre that HATED MF/KD since the 80s (mainly because of the vocals). Definitively not a band that was loved by everyone.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:01 am 
 

StainedClass95 wrote:
Spiner202 wrote:

I will also throw some shade at Accept. Balls to the Wall is a great record, but the few I've heard outside of that don't get it done for me. I can appreciate why this would have been great when it first came out, but only Balls to the Wall continues to stand up.


Interesting, Balls to the Wall has never done much for me in large part because it feels pretty dated to that era with a lot of obvious effort to streamline and get a hit. Restless and Wild and to a lesser-extent Breaker are their main releases that I gravitate to with an occasional listen to some of the others.


Definitely! Both albums are far better and even more "metallic" than Balls..... That album was fine but the start of their slump through the rest of the 80s imo.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:06 am 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
"Spheres" is clearly trying to rip off Cynic, not Death or Voivod.


That's odd, it's a total coincidence that it's full of Voivod riffs, then? :P
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:11 am 
 

Acrobat wrote:
Temple Of Blood wrote:
"Spheres" is clearly trying to rip off Cynic, not Death or Voivod.


That's odd, it's a total coincidence that it's full of Voivod riffs, then? :P


It's quite possible that Cynic inspired mameli to do what he did, but yeah, I don't think Spheres sounds that much like them nonetheless. That might sort of be accidental, though.

And the best song on it is clearly "Personal Energy". Nothing else like it.
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Thy Shrine
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:37 pm
Posts: 234
Location: Golgotha
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:27 pm 
 

Acrobat wrote:
Temple Of Blood wrote:
"Spheres" is clearly trying to rip off Cynic, not Death or Voivod.


That's odd, it's a total coincidence that it's full of Voivod riffs, then? :P



I also don't know how true it is that the interludes from Testimony of the Ancients were ripped off from Blessed are the Sick, like Temple of Blood said too. I think they came out too close for that to be the case.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 5645
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:02 pm 
 

That many interludes aren't necessary at all. And Blessed Are the Sick is a good album unlike Testimony of the Ancients at least. :P

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at the gaytes
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 pm
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Location: Bangladesh
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:25 am 
 

Thy Shrine wrote:
Yeah, Consuming Impulse is probably more technical than a Leprosy. In fact, Pestilence were always a little more creative, technically, and song structure wise. And let's not forget how surgical and precise Malleus Maleficarum was either.

Oh, here's a kind of unpopular opinion, Demilichs uniqueness is kind of overstated. They were a little different from your average DM band at the time, but so we're the other Finnish death metal bands who were always a lot more slimy, and alien compared to other scenes. Convulse, Demigod, Funebre, Anathema(not Serenades Anathema), and others always had weird riffs and melodies that were unique to that scene.

Not to mention that Entombed have NOTHING on Nihilist. I love LHP as much as anyone, but nothing defeats those fucking demos, some of the best metal ever written. And the version of Severe Burns on Clandestine is COMPLETE dogshit in comparison to the original, which is just a fucking amazing out of this world masterpiece.


The thing with Demilich was that their riffing style was truly unique. It was so unique that any band that try to mimic it is labelled as a Demilich clone, to me it sounds like traditional technical death metal if it was played at half tempo and without blast beats.

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