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Shadechaser
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:06 am
Posts: 191
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:50 am 
 
oops and yes :)
can someone please move it to appropriate thread?
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cranialcrusherabc
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 11:39 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:06 am 
 
Not sure if this is the correct thread. Anyways...

I have added the band Reversed (BRA) and I've got the e-mail regarding its approval on the site. However, it seems that the one approved was not the one added by me, although there was no band named Reversed in the queue by the time I submitted it. Could someone please clarify what happened here?

Thanks in advance!
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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 699
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:25 am 
 
cranialcrusherabc wrote:
Not sure if this is the correct thread. Anyways...

I have added the band Reversed (BRA) and I've got the e-mail regarding its approval on the site. However, it seems that the one approved was not the one added by me, although there was no band named Reversed in the queue by the time I submitted it. Could someone please clarify what happened here?

Thanks in advance!

The one on the site was approved and submitted before yours, so yours was approved by mistake. The user who submitted the entry listed had made a slight typo in their submission, which is why it didn't show up in the queue for you. Sorry for the confusion!
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cranialcrusherabc
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 11:39 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:29 am 
 
Oh, I see. Alright, thanks!
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6074
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:31 am 
 
Why was the Swedish band Domedagen accepted? The band is certainly metal, but has released so far only several on track singles on Bandcamp: https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Do ... 3540441106
https://domedagen.bandcamp.com/
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PaganiusI
Zee Bombelecher

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm
Posts: 1094
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:37 am 
 
Witcher wrote:
Why was the Swedish band Domedagen accepted? The band is certainly metal, but has released so far only several on track singles on Bandcamp: https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Do ... 3540441106
https://domedagen.bandcamp.com/

They were judged to be substancial and professional enough to be acceptable even though they are just singles. Production is good, presentation is good and the overall look of the band and their stuff is professional enough to be acceptable.
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Krister Jensen
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:48 am
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:11 am 
 
#1 Rodmir sounds hard rock on every album with some metal moments on their 2nd album which is the heaviest, but is still predominantly hard rock as I hear it. Full abums on YouTube:
Rodmir, 1989
Wild & Dangerous Girl, 1994
Формула ответа, 2002
+ Игра без правил, 1997 RAR

#2 O.D. also sounds much more hard rock than metal. RAR.

#3 Reign the Absolute is worth checking, sounds very core/djent. RAR.

#4 Train Arrival - djent. Bandcamp. No other releases.

#5 Materia sounds entirely math/core/something. RAR.

#6 Viper Inc. turns out to be nu metal/alternative rock with a couple of borderline songs. LP+3EP RAR.

#7 Астра/Astra sounds at least very borderline hard-n-heavy, worth revaluation. RAR.

#8 Southwake - alternative prog rock. RAR.


Last edited by Krister Jensen on Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:36 am, edited 2 times in total.
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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3317
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:26 pm 
 
Deleted NOISM (Japan) - mostly riffless speedcore/grind.
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Midnight Rider
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:07 pm
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:51 pm 
 
Krister Jensen wrote:
#1 Rodmir sounds hard rock on every album with some metal moments on their 2nd album which is the heaviest, but is still predominantly hard rock as I hear it.

Removed.
Krister Jensen wrote:
#2 O.D. also sounds much more hard rock than metal. RAR.

Effectively, most of the album was groovy metallic rock songs and hardrock ballads/shred with perhaps two borderline tracks. Removed.
Krister Jensen wrote:
#3 Reign the Absolute is worth checking, sounds very core/djent. RAR.

SotLB and I gave it a listen and found it unacceptable. Deleted-
Krister Jensen wrote:
#4 Train Arrival - djent. Bandcamp. No other releases.

Two mods concluded that while there's some djent involved, there's also a great amount of metal riffing. Agree with them, but "Djent" was added to their genre. Thanks!
Krister Jensen wrote:
#6 Viper Inc. turns out to be nu metal/alternative rock with a couple of borderline songs. LP+3EP RAR.

Totally accurate. Nuked & blacklisted.
Krister Jensen wrote:
#8 Southwake - alternative prog rock. RAR.

Prog alt/rock with few metallic moments. interesting stuff but absolutely non-metal! Deleted.
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Muhammadabbadabba
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Posts: 1183
Location: R'lyeh
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:16 am 
 
The Irish band EZ Feelin' shouldn't be here at all. All their songs are a mix of AOR and Pop Rock with only faint metallic soloing here and there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLsmgaIrnTo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8dat0MuekE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYk0IVAkaOM
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mjollnir
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:14 pm
Posts: 1843
Location: Versailles, PA
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:20 am 
 
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/De ... 3540342587

This band Dead Label....everything I've heard sounds like mallcore to me.

https://youtu.be/YVW_U-lOHzs
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6074
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:02 am 
 
Here is the complete Dead Label discography on spotify. https://open.spotify.com/artist/1SbitcH2DluodRP53dowuX


I will use this opportunity to bump an eearlier post of mine from the previous page, which apparently got buried by other stuff. The electronic metalcore band Crossfaith is certainly not predominantly metal imo. Complete discography on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3gfA40vRbx6YX8oCDXDCDh
https://www.youtube.com/user/CrossfaithOfficial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFVJoKh ... lV8LsIw_4b
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6074
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:19 pm 
 
One more : The German band Rated X plays imo bluesy hard rock on both albums. I actually own their "Forbidden For The Youth" album on Cd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p1BXvsSOwc
http://intunes.ru/release-iddhjacjg/For ... -The-Youth
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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 699
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:30 pm 
 
mjollnir wrote:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Dead_Label/3540342587

This band Dead Label....everything I've heard sounds like mallcore to me.

https://youtu.be/YVW_U-lOHzs

MR and I gave them a listen and we both thought that they are acceptable, mainly on their first album. Overall pretty borderline, but acceptable. Genre has been changed though.
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Xenophon wrote:
I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.
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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 556
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:56 pm 
 
I've always had doubts about bands in the archives with no discography but just a note saying something like "released a demo in x year". How do you know the band and release actually exist? But lets say this is understandable for old bands that released demos a long time ago and somehow we know they did it (fanzines, interviews, etc). But what about new bands like this one? https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Re ... 3540407011 How was this band accepted? If there's a proof of the existence of the demo why not just add it in the discography?
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MasterOfSin
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:24 am
Posts: 448
Location: Iberia
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:15 pm 
 
blackmantram wrote:
I've always had doubts about bands in the archives with no discography but just a note saying something like "released a demo in x year". How do you know the band and release actually exist? But lets say this is understandable for old bands that released demos a long time ago and somehow we know they did it (fanzines, interviews, etc). But what about new bands like this one? https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Re ... 3540407011 How was this band accepted? If there's a proof of the existence of the demo why not just add it in the discography?


Hi,
this usually happens when there a proof of the release (for example some photos of the Cd and there are some songs for samples in youtube, reverbnation or similar but the there's no information about tracklist.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10097
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:20 pm 
 
In this particular band's case, there was a link to a photo of a CD in the submission notes (which are only visible to moderators). The link itself no longer works, but the photo can still be found on the band's Facebook page. As for why it wasn't added properly, as MOS said, the exact tracklist is not known.
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BastardHead
Worse than the PMRC

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9244
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:43 pm 
 
Witcher wrote:
I will use this opportunity to bump an eearlier post of mine from the previous page, which apparently got buried by other stuff. The electronic metalcore band Crossfaith is certainly not predominantly metal imo. Complete discography on Spotify:
https://open.spotify.com/artist/3gfA40vRbx6YX8oCDXDCDh
https://www.youtube.com/user/CrossfaithOfficial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFVJoKh ... lV8LsIw_4b


Somebody did respond to Crossfaith I believe (I think it was Azmodes) but it did get sort of lost in a flood of posts. Their album "The Dream, The Space" was judged to be (barely) acceptable metalcore, though you are correct that the rest of their discography isn't even close.
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Peyp
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 1:16 am
Posts: 202
Location: California, United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:51 am 
 
Can somebody explain Sigfader's legitimacy to me? I'm really not sure how this is acceptable, with the missing info and the lack of any proof of the band's existence on the Internet. And considering it's supposedly Gaahl's ex-band I would think I'd find something about it.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1349
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:58 am 
 
SUNDOWN
Antioch wrote:
I realize this has been here for very long, and you may want to keep it as a side-project, but the band isn't really metal.
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sundown/2384

Design 19 is goth rock...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7r_tJY ... rt_radio=1

...and Glimmer is electronic/industrial music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nKMHlv ... LMl5j27RCw


EN DECLIN
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/En_Declin/21806
http://www.discogs.com/artist/523051-En-Declin

https://endeclin.bandcamp.com/
Depressive rock. Not one metal riff on either album, so you may want to give the demo a full listen to see if it qualifies.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1349
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:06 pm 
 
Southern Death Threat
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/So ... eat/121931
How this got accepted as thrash/southern metal I'll never know. :p
Sounds Nickelback-ish and mallcore-ish.
Songs from the debut:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79VxKKPZUmc
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0C3s75_keE
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-6OODjxGjw
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe4U9i_xyfI
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjBCCa6VUKg
Songs from the sophomore release:
https://www.reverbnation.com/southerndeaththreat/songs
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Midnight Rider
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:07 pm
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:48 am 
 
Antioch wrote:
Southern Death Threat
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/So ... eat/121931
How this got accepted as thrash/southern metal I'll never know. :p
Sounds Nickelback-ish and mallcore-ish.
Songs from the debut:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79VxKKPZUmc
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0C3s75_keE
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-6OODjxGjw
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe4U9i_xyfI
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjBCCa6VUKg
Songs from the sophomore release:
https://www.reverbnation.com/southerndeaththreat/songs

Insta-nuked!
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6074
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:00 am 
 
Witcher wrote:
Thanks, Azmodaz.
Another band I was wondering about recently is Holy Soldier. I know, that they were accepted based on their first album, but I was listening to it recently and ffrankly I do not find any difference in style or heaviness between H"Holy Soldier" and "Last Train". They both sound to me like Ratt's Out Of The Cellar album, combined with Dokken's more hard rock material, also more Har rock than metal. The only songs, that could be called metal on the debut are "Tear Down The Walls" and with some hesitation "See No Evil" , which has something similar to Queensryche, the rest is predominantly hard rock imo. The third album is grunge inspired modern hard rock, by the way. Here are all three albums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFx5KCtQsvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-l4GzF234A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-0pi_B ... 5D5E4E2C33



Please, can somebody react on this. Also on Steven Patrick's solo career?
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Krister Jensen
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:48 am
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:01 am 
 
Left on the previous page:
Krister Jensen wrote:
Krister Jensen wrote:
Apathetical Syndrome needs to be revaluated, sounds too much ambient. download.

+
#1 Colorless mostly sounds alternative/math/modern rock. Bandcamp.
#2 Sixth Sense is pretty much hard rock. RAR.


Last edited by Krister Jensen on Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Midnight Rider
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:07 pm
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:53 pm 
 
Krister Jensen wrote:
#1 Colorless mostly sounds alternative/math/modern rock. Bandcamp.

SotLB and myself are re-evaluating the band at the moment.

Krister Jensen wrote:
#2 Sixth Sense is pretty much hard rock. RAR.

Well, it starts borderline acceptable but then it quickly goes into groovy/grungy alt-metal (with some prog) after the first three songs.
Some songs are clearly influenced by the likes of Stone Temple Pilots and Godsmack.

Removed.
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6074
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:35 am 
 
The Irish band Stryder sounds like pure hard rock to me: https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Stryder/49497
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRy_hnvyGbI
The band describes themselves as a "rock band from Dublin" : https://stryder.bandcamp.com/releases

Another ssuspicious band from Ireland is Freeway. Unfortunately I could not find samples, but read this description: Heavy metal band with keyboards. The A-side of their sole single sounds a bit like Def Leppard. The B-side is a mid-tempo ballad.
https://www.irishrock.org/irodb/bands/freeway.html
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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 699
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:43 pm 
 
Midnight Rider wrote:
Krister Jensen wrote:
#1 Colorless mostly sounds alternative/math/modern rock. Bandcamp.

SotLB and myself are re-evaluating the band at the moment.

Annnnnnd they're gone.
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Xenophon wrote:
I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1349
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:49 am 
 
A very redundant entry:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/As ... 3540446415
Same musicians, same style, same everything. Assign Fate >> Assigned Fate.
This shouldn't warrant two entries. They should be merged.
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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3317
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:07 am 
 
Antioch wrote:
A very redundant entry:
https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/As ... 3540446415
Same musicians, same style, same everything. Assign Fate >> Assigned Fate.
This shouldn't warrant two entries. They should be merged.

Merged into Assign Fate. Thanks for catching that.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1349
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:44 am 
 
Sure, dude. There's some residues with the digital version of their latest full-length. Best thing is probably to delete that one and re-add it from the parent entry.

Also, the single is a YouTube video, Mutant. You can safely remove that one, too. :)
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6074
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:00 pm 
 
When we are at it, I think, that the double entries for WiWicked Maraya and Maraya should be merged too. Both bands had the same line-up, same location and same musical style, that being progressive power metal. The heavy/groove metal tag for wicked Maraya is not correct. So the name change was just a modification. Full Wicked Maraya album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujruPqOPAA0
Compare: Maraya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbXpNYrjd6Q
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Storm of the Light's Bane
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:16 pm
Posts: 699
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:25 pm 
 
Antioch wrote:
There's some residues with the digital version of their latest full-length. Best thing is probably to delete that one and re-add it from the parent entry.

I couldn't delete just that version since it was assigned to the deleted entry, so I had to delete the entire album entry and re-add it.
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Xenophon wrote:
I'm sure he would have pushed strongly for them to be included. I'm guessing there was a fight among the mods over whether to include them, and it ended with Metantoine being imprisoned in Napero's Finnish ice wizard tower.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1349
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:41 pm 
 
You innocent pointwhore, you. :p Whatever works best, lad. Keep up the good work.
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Krister Jensen
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:48 am
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:34 am 
 
Uncrossed sounds rock-ish. I'm not very good at prog stuff, but I believe it's worth reassessing. demo | LP.
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ᴎostalgiʞK
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Argentina, Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:47 pm 
 
Hello folks, I want to know why Nuclear Holocaust from Brazil was accepted?

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Nu ... aust/26185

If it's the band I think it is from Brazil which also have a member called Neto, where they released this kind of "demo" recorded in a room so I don't know why it's here..

I got their "demo" on my phone almost 2 years ago, they just got one song bad recorded and others which were never recorded.

If it's not the band I think it is, well.. Why is here?
Cheers.
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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3317
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:11 pm 
 
ᴎostalgiʞK wrote:
Hello folks, I want to know why Nuclear Holocaust from Brazil was accepted?

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Nu ... aust/26185

If it's the band I think it is from Brazil which also have a member called Neto, where they released this kind of "demo" recorded in a room so I don't know why it's here..

I got their "demo" on my phone almost 2 years ago, they just got one song bad recorded and others which were never recorded.

If it's not the band I think it is, well.. Why is here?
Cheers.

So not sure I fully understand. Are you saying that the demo was never actually released? If so, do you have any proof of that? If you mean that the demo is bad quality, if there was a physical release, that's not an issue - we aren't concerned with the professionalism (or lack thereof) of releases that are physically distributed.
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ᴎostalgiʞK
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Argentina, Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:53 pm 
 
MutantClannfear wrote:
So not sure I fully understand. Are you saying that the demo was never actually released? If so, do you have any proof of that? If you mean that the demo is bad quality, if there was a physical release, that's not an issue - we aren't concerned with the professionalism (or lack thereof) of releases that are physically distributed.


The demo I heared from them (if was the Nuclear Holocaust I met) was never released or published, the quality was horrible but for me quality does not mean anything, but again IF is the band that I think it is may could be rarely accepted according to the rules, riffs were impossible to hear sometimes, too much noise because of the bad quality above the other instruments, and nothing more that 5 minutes of material.
I don't have this anymore, was 2 years ago when the guitarrist passed me on the phone the "demo". (Again I don't know if it's the same band)
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OpsiusCato wrote:
It's in my Goatfangs text.file
Hilarious stupid comment that MalconInTheMETAL wrote:
Everyone calls Black Sabbath heavy metal, but by today's standards they aren't at all
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MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3317
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:12 pm 
 
In order to follow up on this and take definite action, I think we'd need to make sure that the entry on the site is the same band that you heard. We have to assume that, at the time the band was submitted, there was solid proof provided that the band had a valid, metal physical release. Are you still able to contact the guitarist? Perhaps you could reach out to them again and ask if it's the same band, and if so, getting them to provide some sort of statement that it was never officially released.
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ᴎostalgiʞK
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Argentina, Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:15 pm 
 
Ok mutant, I'll try, he went out of the "houng-out" group back then.
_________________
My abandoned projects:
Deathrall : Black Metal
GrindOfKaczka : Grindcore/Powerviolence
OpsiusCato wrote:
It's in my Goatfangs text.file
Hilarious stupid comment that MalconInTheMETAL wrote:
Everyone calls Black Sabbath heavy metal, but by today's standards they aren't at all
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6074
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:48 am 
 
I recently got th ep of the czech band Thief" Deux Ex Mmachina" and it is certainly not progressive metal. The style on it could be described as alternative/nu-metal/metalcore with hearable influences from bands like Korn or Tool. Please, listen to the entire ep here: http://bandzone.cz/thief
Here are some of their old demo songs (I do not own their first demo): https://www.youtube.com/user/thieftom
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