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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:22 am 
 

Youtube: show


New song is up. Well, it's heavier than the last couple, I'll give them that.
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fourrobert13
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:23 am 
 

I was just posting the new track, but you beat me to it...lol. Oh well, I like the new track. It's what I expected from everything I've read and watched in the trailer videos.
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jimbies
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:43 am 
 

Eeesh. Some of this almost seems "Nu Metal"-ish to me. Kind of sounds like it could have been on Train Of Thought, which also had some of those elements, I thought.

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Dembo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:00 am 
 

Most likely that clip will be removed since it's on some random dude's channel. So here's an official Youtube clip of it:

Youtube: show

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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:58 am 
 

Song is decent. I don't wanna get hung up on the lyrics yet, so I'm putting that aspect aside. Mangini's playing is great here-solid groove during the verses/choruses, with technical outbursts during the instrumental section. Very restrained and tasteful (note: Mangini's playing has never been a problem for me with post-Portnoy DT, I have high admiration for this guy's playing-even if the drum sounds on the ST record suck the big one).

I don't know what to make of the shorter album run time. Could be indicative of tightening up the songwriting after the sprawling mess that was The Astonishing, or it could be indicative of going through the motions and quickly throwing things together just to get a product out there as an excuse to tour (where the real money is at). I guess we'll see when the full album is released.

And lol at "Barstool Warrior". :nono:

jimbies wrote:
Eeesh. Some of this almost seems "Nu Metal"-ish to me. Kind of sounds like it could have been on Train Of Thought, which also had some of those elements, I thought.


I can't remember where, but I could have sworn I'd read months ago that this album was supposedly influenced by djent-maybe that's what you're hearing?
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idunnosomename
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:13 pm 
 

It's that weird era that if a band writes proper songs under 6 min it's worth checking them out again (Iron Maiden!!)

I'm so undecided where I stand on DT. I own all their CDs up to 6DoIT. But I thought Train of Thought was the sort of wank people accused them of being. Since then they've been... okay? Getting rid of Portnoy and his tendency to play the band's greatest fan and force too much trad metal on them was only detrimental imo.

Also I think Falling Into Infinity is their best. Or at least it's my favourite.

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Rosner
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:37 pm 
 

I quite like the new song! If the whole album is like this, then I'm more than sold. Seems they are going back to the Train of Thought style, which is fine by me. The idea of doing shorter songs seems nice too: it may help in order to bring consistence to the album. The riffing is nice and the chorus is catchy. Just hope Petrucci and Rudess back a bit down with their dueling wankering solos.

By the way, anyone else whishes the single's cover was the actual album cover?

Spoiler: show
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DividerOfShadows
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:11 am 
 

Rosner wrote:
By the way, anyone else whishes the single's cover was the actual album cover?

Spoiler: show
Image


Yeah, it looks richer and better. Reminds me of the cover for Images and Words a bit.
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exsiccation
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:10 pm 
 

The new song's alright by me. The Astonishing was a total snooze-fest and self-indulgent to the point of being ludicrous, but this definitely sounds like it could easily hang with any of their mid-period albums. Maybe a little lacking in originality, but after so many albums I don't think anyone expects that.

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:57 pm 
 

Wow, this song is far worse than I expected. Put a fork in 'em IMHO.
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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:04 pm 
 

New song isn't terrible, to be honest. About what you'd expect; no surprises, the same thing they've been doing for decades.

I'm not sure in what sense this music is "progressive," though.
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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:43 pm 
 

Oblarg wrote:
I'm not sure in what sense this music is "progressive," though.


None whatsoever. "Progressive" has been co-opted and re-defined to essentially be synonymous with "technical", as it's been discussed earlier in the thread. DT is one of the least progressive bands on the planet, if you take the word as what it's supposed to actually mean.

Reading the lyrics to this song, its not the proselytizing of the last three records, but it is absolute pseudo-philosophical drivel. Certainly not helped at all by James LaBrie's old man delivery. Singing in this style, and sounding vital doing it, truly is a young person's game.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:15 pm 
 

FirebathDan wrote:
Reading the lyrics to this song, its not the proselytizing of the last three records


You keep referring to this. What are you talking about?
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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:49 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
You keep referring to this. What are you talking about?


It's extraordinarily obvious that the lyrics to the last three records are meant to push a christian/conservative agenda, which they've always dabbled in on past albums, but Petrucci (now as the primary lyricist after Portnoy's departure) has really ramped this angle up big time without having Portnoy as a co-producer. I mean, The Astonishing is basically 2112 v2, and that album is Rand-isms to the max, as was modernized DTs take on it. The first song they released after Portnoy's departure was "On The Backs Of Angels" and-considering the year it was released-the only thing missing from those lyrics was "where's the birth certificate?" or something along those lines.

Fair play to them, they can write about whatever they see fit, and people are free to enjoy the messaging on any level they like (or no level at all), but that doesn't mean that I have to like it or wanna hear it if I find the messaging disagreeable (same with NSBM).

I'll check out anything DT does due to my longstanding appreciation of them (since 1994), which at one point was complete obsession (circa 05-06). But I'll certainly vett the lyrics before considering making a physical purchase. Otherwise, I'll just add the album to my digital music subscription queue and be done with it.
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fourrobert13
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:16 pm 
 

FirebathDan wrote:
Temple Of Blood wrote:
You keep referring to this. What are you talking about?


It's extraordinarily obvious that the lyrics to the last three records are meant to push a christian/conservative agenda, which they've always dabbled in on past albums, but Petrucci (now as the primary lyricist after Portnoy's departure) has really ramped this angle up big time without having Portnoy as a co-producer. I mean, The Astonishing is basically 2112 v2, and that album is Rand-isms to the max, as was modernized DTs take on it. The first song they released after Portnoy's departure was "On The Backs Of Angels" and-considering the year it was released-the only thing missing from those lyrics was "where's the birth certificate?" or something along those lines.

Fair play to them, they can write about whatever they see fit, and people are free to enjoy the messaging on any level they like (or no level at all), but that doesn't mean that I have to like it or wanna hear it if I find the messaging disagreeable (same with NSBM).

I'll check out anything DT does due to my longstanding appreciation of them (since 1994), which at one point was complete obsession (circa 05-06). But I'll certainly vett the lyrics before considering making a physical purchase. Otherwise, I'll just add the album to my digital music subscription queue and be done with it.

You've read deeper into the lyrics than I ever did. Not sure where they would fit in the birth certificate part...

On the Backs of Angels lyrics:

Quote:
Standing on the backs
of angels destined to create,
mounting the attack while
heroes carry your weight.

We spiral toward disaster,
survival fading faster.

Riding out the wave,
content to feed on the machine.
Leading us to death,
the new American dream.

You’re blinded by your hunger.
Beware, your days are numbered!

Tears fall from the shameless!
Shelter me, guide me to the
edge of the water.

Selfless are the righteous!
Burden me, lead me like a
lamb to the slaughter.

Blurring lines drawn in between
what is right and what is wrong,
victims on the radar stringing us along.

We’re on to your agenda,
the dead end road to nowhere.

Tears fall from the shameless!
Shelter me, guide me to the
edge of the water.

Selfless are the righteous!
Burden me, lead me like a
lamb to the slaughter.


The lyrics don't really seem that specific to me, nor do the lyrics to the new song but then again I hardly ever read that deep into them. I find it funny you're upset by them, yet a lot of artist are pushing their messages through their music. I guess it's only an issue for you if you disagree with the message.
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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:56 pm 
 

fourrobert13 wrote:
I find it funny you're upset by them...


Who's upset? I don't waste energy getting upset about these things-I just move onto something else.

Quote:
...yet a lot of artist are pushing their messages through their music. I guess it's only an issue for you if you disagree with the message.


I don't understand; it seems as if you are trying to goad me into some kind of argument, or to point out some sort of contradiction with what I said, but I literally said this in the very post you quoted. For your convenience:

I wrote:
Fair play to them, they can write about whatever they see fit, and people are free to enjoy the messaging on any level they like (or no level at all), but that doesn't mean that I have to like it or wanna hear it if I find the messaging disagreeable (same with NSBM).


I'm free to like or dislike anything for any reason I see fit, same as you. And so what if I don't care for DT's message or any message from any artist I find distasteful or disagreeable? Like I said above, I move onto something else. I'm under no obligation to like DT with as much fervor as I once had for any reason.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:45 pm 
 

I think you're under an obligation not to misrepresent their views though.

Even if you've spotted petrucci at a trump rally finding a vicious anti-Obama slant in those lyrics takes quite an imagination. I wonder if the SPLC is hiring.

It's more likely that the astonishing was their own rip off of 2112. We all know DT are not the most original thinkers on the planet, nor have they displayed strong political opinions.

I'd love to hear your take on how they've expressed christian/conservative views in their first 2nd albums which you say they've always dabbled in.
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GOOFAM
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:02 am 
 

Couple thoughts:

First, though it's pretty well-documented that Petrucci is on the political right, I neither see a right-wing agenda in the On the Backs of Angels lyrics or really much of anything else he's done. Maybe a bit in Outcry? It maybe colors his approach to writing overall a bit, and I don't think he's been a particularly strong lyricist since maybe the Octavarium days regardless, but that's more due to the lack of complexity and nuance than any sort of ideological bias. And believe me, if the guy did go all Mustaine, I'd have a hard time listening. On the Backs of Angels, in fact, I understood as lampooning Wall Street more than the federal government at the time, though it admittedly isn't all that clear about its target, so I suppose you could interpret it either way.

Second, I'm baffled by the endless rush to declare Dream Theater, Symphony X, etc., no longer "progressive" just because they aren't pushing the boundaries of current music in the way they were in the 1990s. Though I understand the basic rationale for these claims, they kind of miss the point. "Progressive" isn't relative to itself; it's relative to other music at large. It's the same way that it would be silly to label Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren as no longer "progressive" politicians just because Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the like exist. The comparison point is the center. This is different from, say "avant-garde," which would be more appropriate for the constant boundary-pushing people seem to call for. As long as Dream Theater songs are longer and employ more intricate arrangements, rhythms, etc. than the average metal band, they're on the progressive wing, though admittedly more "center-prog," to invent a term out of thin air, than out on the fringes.

New song is cool. Enjoyed the heavy riffing and really liked the instrumental break, and the melodies are fairly strong as DT goes. I really hope the vocals on the album are less effect-heavy and less strained than this, though, because an hour of that's gonna be rough.

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HamburgerBoy
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:31 am 
 

"Progressive" hasn't been synonymous with "forward-thinking", "original", etc since the mid/late-70s and bands like Starcastle. I get the big-P vs little-p thing and why people that aren't into big-P won't enjoy it, but it's been obvious for nearly 30 years what the Dream Theater and big-P sound are, so attacking a band on the basis of the definition of the word that just so happens to be used as their common sub-genre label is silly.

And Dream Theater is about as afraid to offend as you can get. The Great Debate exemplifies this, a song about how, like, people disagree on human cloning and stuff, and like, ethics are complex and shit, and you know, who is to really say who is really right, you know? The Astonishing is just a silly nerdy sci-fi dystopia fantasy and I don't really see it as any more libertarian-propagandistic than something like Half-Life 2.

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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:50 am 
 

This is the last I'll chime in on the sidebar topic, so as to not further derail the thread.

Out of the last 5 posts, the only thing I'll agree with is Hamburger's assessment that DT is not out offend. I do not believe that to be the case, however I do believe that Petrucci is more explicitly using DT as a platform for his views since he no longer has the checks and balances of having to co-produce with Portnoy.

Regarding "OTBOA", given the year this song came out, the lyrics are clearly clearly an anti-Obama diatribe, speaking out against his "socialist" policies and specifically the ACA. The fact that this song was the very fist one released of the post-Portnoy era acts as a clear mission statement.

EDIT: Editing out my hostilities towards Temple, this whole sidebar was a complete lapse of judgement, I should’ve known better to not engage them in the first place.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:01 am 
 

Those "On the Backs of Angels" lyrics are probably from a pretty conservative place, but they're also so vague that it's easy just not to read it that way at all. A lot of metal bands will do either that, or go the entirely opposite way and write so bluntly that it's annoying.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:39 am 
 

HamburgerBoy wrote:
And Dream Theater is about as afraid to offend as you can get. The Great Debate exemplifies this, a song about how, like, people disagree on human cloning and stuff, and like, ethics are complex and shit, and you know, who is to really say who is really right, you know? The Astonishing is just a silly nerdy sci-fi dystopia fantasy and I don't really see it as any more libertarian-propagandistic than something like Half-Life 2.


I revisited Six Degrees about a month ago and got a kick out of The Great Debate. It's quaint how the band seemed to think that stem cell research was so controversial that they didn't even take a definitive stance on it themselves. It's such a far cry from modern discourse that it makes me wonder why they even bothered to write the song aside from using it as an excuse to homage Tool some more.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:13 am 
 

So I take it I won't be getting any lyrical analysis revealing the hidden Christian/right-wing thought crimes embedded in the lyrics of their first 2 albums?

Any more "mission statements" lying in wait?
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:17 am 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I revisited Six Degrees about a month ago and got a kick out of The Great Debate. It's quaint how the band seemed to think that stem cell research was so controversial that they didn't even take a definitive stance on it themselves. It's such a far cry from modern discourse that it makes me wonder why they even bothered to write the song aside from using it as an excuse to homage Tool some more.


I give them credit for not saying what they think if they don't know what to make of it. If only more lyricists would show the same restraint.

It does beg the question why to even discuss it at all though, as you said.

The only overriding philosophy I've found overt in DT's lyrics was Portnoy's "carpe diem" theme that he kept throwing in there. Even that is far from controversial.
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InnesI
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:27 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
I revisited Six Degrees about a month ago and got a kick out of The Great Debate. It's quaint how the band seemed to think that stem cell research was so controversial that they didn't even take a definitive stance on it themselves. It's such a far cry from modern discourse that it makes me wonder why they even bothered to write the song aside from using it as an excuse to homage Tool some more.



Temple Of Blood wrote:
I give them credit for not saying what they think if they don't know what to make of it. If only more lyricists would show the same restraint.


I agree. I like how they throw the question out there but don't try to give any answers. And certainly don't try to push their beliefs on us as listeners. I feel its refreshing.

It could also be that the members of Dream Theater didn't all agree so they decided to not take a stance just present some of the arguments from each side.

In any case its always been one of my favourite tracks off of SDoIT. I love the sound bits from interviews (I'm a sucker for these in general) and the song has a nice build and intelligent lyrics as well.

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GOOFAM
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:37 pm 
 

InnesI wrote:
Twisted_Psychology wrote:
It could also be that the members of Dream Theater didn't all agree so they decided to not take a stance just present some of the arguments from each side.


Yeah, just as another quick note on this, I'd say LaBrie specifically does not seem aligned with the right-wing Christian viewpoint, in general (see "Prophets of War" or perhaps more obviously "Undecided" off Elements of Persuasion). I have no idea if he's particularly liberal, but given what I know of him lyrically/listening to many DT-related interviews over the years, I have a feeling he'd take issue with anything heavy-handed on the right.

I will say that Portnoy was always vocal about making sure songs covered "both sides" of issues when he was in the band, but then again, he was the one person who spoke back then, so it's not really fair to characterize Petrucci as suddenly breaking from that viewpoint as soon as Portnoy was out the door.

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:55 am 
 

James LaBrie is quite liberal and has stated he isn't religious in the past. But then he doesn'tcontribute much lyrically to the band anymore. Petrucci wrote some pretty neat lyrics in the past like "Lines In The Sand" and "Scarred". He was always better at the more introspective route than the commentary thing which usually comes out rather trite.

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GOOFAM
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:18 pm 
 

Yeah, was just saying that as the singer, LaBrie would probably take issue if he was given overtly conservative/preachy to sing, at least if he perceived them that way. I do agree he's currently their best lyricist. He wrote 3 lyrics for this album and Mangini and Myung wrote one each, I think, so should be more balance in that department than before.

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Woolie_Wool
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:42 pm 
 

Petrucci's has definitely ramped up his conservative Catholic sentimentality since Portnoy left, to the point where it's in almost every song. However, Petrucci's not going to start going DEUS VULT on us anytime soon; he's really, really meticulous about his image and he'll never say anything to put Dream Theater in jeopardy, especially after his band, his business humiliated itself during the social media feud with Portnoy. So instead he works it into the metaphors and allusions, and it hangs in the background, like a slightly oily taste in your mouth.

"Untethered Angel" sucks, but it sucks in exactly the ways I expected it to suck. That pop chord progression in the chorus was heinous, though. "You Not Me", here we come!
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:46 pm 
 

The only one who humiliated themselves in the Portnoy/DT feud was Portnoy. He was extremely short-sighted and threw away the best gig he will EVER have (unless Lee/Lifeson call him needing a drummer).

Being a member of Adrenaline Mob and a wannabe member of Avenged Sevenfold is humiliating in and of itself.

He was rebuffed when he offered to return because no one wanted to deal with his mouth and childishness anymore.

Frankly, I prefer his drumming style in DT over Mangini's but who would you rather be stuck on buses/airplanes with for weeks on end?
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Woolie_Wool
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:53 pm 
 

You assume that because one side lost, the other won. The feud made both Portnoy and Dream Theater (especially James LaBrie, who was responsible for most of the antagonistic behavior on DT's side) look terrible. I'm not saying Portnoy should be back. I'm saying Dream Theater didn't handle it well, and I'm sure Petrucci doesn't want such bad optics ever again, and he is effectively the band's boss. Dream Theater's brand is built on their image as professional musicians, and professionals do not snipe at ex-colleagues over social media.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:47 am 
 

Progressive rock/metal has a LONG history of musicians sniping at each other in interviews and any other forum where they are allowed to speak. It's not so shocking that after such an unexpected break-up that things would be said on both sides, especially when both sides are undoubtedly asked about it constantly. These are grown men, and presumably they aren't made of wet tissue paper so hopefully they can handle it.

The only real embarrassment in the history of DT as a band is the HORRIBLE songwriting they continue to indulge in. They crank out releases on a regular basis, and their chops have improved greatly over the years, so I guess that is enough for their fans. They hurt their band greatly by becoming the soulless wankfest that they've long been accused of being.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:08 am 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
They hurt their band greatly by becoming the soulless wankfest that they've long been accused of being.


Really? I think their main problem is their uninspired songs that doesn't even slightly go in a progressive or technical direction. Like the uninspired ballady parts of The Astonishing for example (and its full of them) or The Answer Lies Within from Octavarium. I think Dream Theater is best when they do what sets them apart. When they try to be radio rock, that's where it gets painful to listen to.

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Dembo
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 1497
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:35 pm 
 

Part 2 of their in-studio interview:

Youtube: show

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Gornot
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:36 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:09 am 
 

The trend of "short albums" continues.

The Astonishing was definitely not fun to listen to. Its biggest problem is that they took 90% of the musical themes and packed them all up into "Distopian Overture" which is just short of five minutes long and basically negates any need to listen to the rest of the album because we didn't get to hear any trully dramatic shifts from those main melodies. That's the only song off that album that I legitimately like.

This new single I like (a lot), however. And although I don't expect much from the new album, at least it'll be less of a pain to get through since it's so "short" (at least for their standards). Hopefully they got their shit together and will be able to deliver a more tight, coherent and exciting experience this time around.

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 514
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:02 pm 
 

InnesI wrote:
Temple Of Blood wrote:
They hurt their band greatly by becoming the soulless wankfest that they've long been accused of being.


Really? I think their main problem is their uninspired songs that doesn't even slightly go in a progressive or technical direction. Like the uninspired ballady parts of The Astonishing for example (and its full of them) or The Answer Lies Within from Octavarium. I think Dream Theater is best when they do what sets them apart. When they try to be radio rock, that's where it gets painful to listen to.


I agree with the astonishing, but that's because it's mostly uninspired, lame ballads, and the good technical/progressive moments are close to none, but I can't agree with the answer lies within mention, It's the only ballad of one of their most technical, dynamic records. My only problem with it is it's way too early in the tracklist, it would have worked better as track 7, between panic attack and never enough.

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Thiestru
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:18 am
Posts: 2058
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 2:38 pm 
 

A thought about the shortness of the songs/album: I think that's what the name 'Distance over Time' may mean - that they're covering more musical ground in less time on this record. Seems plausible to me.
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Dembo
Dumbo

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 1497
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:08 am 
 

New song:

Youtube: show

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 4652
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:57 am 
 

This is better than Untethered Angel but it's not blowing my mind. My exceptions are sitting at self-titled levels as opposed to The Astonishing levels so that's something?
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exsiccation
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:49 pm
Posts: 309
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:07 am 
 

The individual sections aren't bad, but after a couple listens, it's really becoming apparent that both of the singles have that same straightforward quality to them. Metallic chuggy riff! Big epic chorus! Long clean section that builds to a guitar solo! Back to the chuggy riff! And take it home with the epic chorus again! It all feels so... insipid.

By contrast, I was listening to Metropolis Pt. 2 the other day and every single song is dynamic, varied, distinct, and it earns all of the dramatic and emotional moments it builds up to.

Dream Theater used to be a band where not only were the individual parts and melodies good, but you could be genuinely surprised, intrigued, or brought on a musical journey. I just don't know what I am supposed to get out of this. There is no sense of narrative and it doesn't lead to anything. It's like music written by the best Dream Theater cover band in the world.

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