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~Guest 566514
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:26 pm
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:42 pm 
 

Too many people whine in the 'Why was band X rejected' forum and get snappy when their 'metal' band is rejected. I see a shocking lack of education on their behalf in the realm of what is metal and what isn't. What is metal and what isn't is surprisingly obvious. If there's metal riffs and has them predominantly, then it's metal, but if it's all breakdowns and whatnot, then it isn't. E.g. Thy Art is Murder is metal, but Black Tongue is shitty (in my opinion) breakdown-core that happens to be heavy.

The 'metal vs non-metal' lectures should cover these borderline genres:

Metalcore
Deathcore
Grindcore
Goregrind
Crossover
Djent
NWOBHM
Stoner
DSBM

In each of the videos, two songs in the same sub-genre are compared. One is metal, and the other isn't. The riffage on both songs are compared side by side and are broken down to highlight the influences, if it be metal or something else.

How does this idea sound?

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Zodijackyl
Definitely Proportionate

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 7418
Location: Longmont Potion Castle
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:16 pm 
 

We have some examples listed, those should be good enough. I don't think we need to detail it with lectures, because we're not interested in litigating or preaching this, we just need to have a functional definition in order to run the site. It seems that most of the disputes are not over ignorance, rather arrogance.

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~Guest 566514
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:26 pm
Posts: 13
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:30 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
We have some examples listed, those should be good enough. I don't think we need to detail it with lectures, because we're not interested in litigating or preaching this, we just need to have a functional definition in order to run the site. It seems that most of the disputes are not over ignorance, rather arrogance.


Can't deny the arrogance and hot-headedness. I can feel the burning fire as I read through the threads.

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__MULLIGANACEOUS__
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:12 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:13 am 
 

Examples of accepted and blacklisted ambiguously-metal genres have already been stated in the rules section. I did own albums that are ambiguously metal and am planning to buy more, including Bullet For My Valentine and The Sex Pistols, and I am perfectly fine with them being blacklisted. Some of the genres the site blacklisted are "their decision," which have been decided by the webmasters in the beginning.

The best way to deal with that is to respect the rules, as many bands of an ambiguous or potentially ambiguous genre have been rejected and blacklisted. In case if you did submit an ambiguously metal band (maybe for points or so) that has potential of making into MA, cause the moderators to carefully evaluate the sonic qualities, and got fully rejected anyhow, there is nothing wrong with your submission or your contribution, as it still contributes to the site by recognizing that this band has been blacklisted despite being ambiguous. The only thing is it won't net you points and the information is less visible. On the other hand, it is still inappropriate to submit bands that obviously belongs to an unacceptable genre, as in submitting a clearly nu-metal band even if you haven't read the rules or chose to ignore the rules.

Recently I submitted a band, Cryptic Ruse, that uses xenharmonic (tuning completely different from the 12-tone scales in Western music) elements. Some of their full-length albums have been described as "drone metal," which might be enough to warrant eligibility (possibly noting that it is an "accepted based on" band), whereas others derive from a broad spectrum of metal genres and genres that are compatible with unambiguous metal, including djent and math rock respectively. I am perfectly fine if that submission took a long time to process and got rejected and blacklisted in the end.

In my opinion, that if a band has been blacklisted, there should be a blacklist reason, such as belonging to an unacceptable ambiguous genre (as in nu-metal), or being determined that this ambiguously metal band is determined unacceptable. However it seems this will not be implemented.
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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 2385
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:26 pm 
 

Can a user get in trouble, or be docked points, for unwittingly submitting a blacklisted band? I mean, I'm obviously not going to try submitting something like System of a Down, Avenged Sevenfold, or one of the mainstream bands that border on metal, nor would I submit something that obviously isnt even close to metal. I just don't want to submit a band that is KINDA metal (or sounds metal enough), have it be a blacklisted band, and get penalized for it. That would be the only case I could see for having the blacklisted band list viewable by users, so they can check ahead of time before submitting (and possibly avoid the staff having to repeatedly reject submissions of these same bands over and over.)

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5465
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:37 pm 
 

We're pretty reasonable when it comes to misunderstandings with unintended blacklist evasion. That said, it's rather hard to unintentionally do that; when you submit a band with a certain name (and even in some cases variations of the name) you should be prompted by a warning notifying you that it has been blacklisted. If you believe that the band you're trying to submit was blacklisted in error OR that it shares the same name and country but is a different band, then you're asked to make a request in the "Why was band X rejected/deleted/blacklisted?" thread and to ask for us to review the band and/or look into it. When a band shares the same name and country but is a different band, we can temporarily remove the blacklist entry so you can submit it.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 10052
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:23 am 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
I just don't want to submit a band that is KINDA metal (or sounds metal enough), have it be a blacklisted band, and get penalized for it. That would be the only case I could see for having the blacklisted band list viewable by users, so they can check ahead of time before submitting (and possibly avoid the staff having to repeatedly reject submissions of these same bands over and over.)

You literally cannot submit a blacklisted band, by definition. Not unless you go out of your way to deliberately change certain details to bypass this (which obviously would get you banned). As Derigin wrote, you are also immediately informed about a blacklisting via an orange warning box, before you can even create a draft (the minimum for this to "kick in" is filling in the band name). It's basically the exact same effect as Ctrl+F'ing your way through a hypothetical public blacklist.
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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 2385
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 7:57 pm 
 

Okay, that's good to know; thanks. I haven't actually tried to submit that many bands; the only band submission rejection I ever got was because there wasn't enough proof of their existence, not due being blacklisted.

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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1334
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 8:13 pm 
 

Off-topic:
It was eventually added, Oxenkiller, based on the video you provided. Moreover, not long ago, Caliginosity found the demo you were talking about and added it. :)
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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 2385
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:45 pm 
 

oh, right on, thanks!

I'm really not too concerned about who gets credit for adding it. I didn't personally know the guys in Infernal Forces well at all, but the band was relatively well known among metalheads in my home town. My town had those guys, and another band called Insanity (whose only claim to fame as far as I know was Napalm Death covered one of their songs once.) Those were the only "native" metal bands from my particular corner of the Bay Area that ever managed to put anything out, at least as far as I know.

Back on topic there is a pretty lively discussion thread going on right now in the metal discussion forum as to what makes a band metal vs not- and obviously there really isn't a cut and dried concrete definition. So I understand it's tricky.

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