Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
ljjnico
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 7:38 am
Posts: 21
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:57 pm 
 

So heartbroken over Rocky Johnson. One of the unsung heroes of pro wrestling from the 60's through to the 80's plus he gave us Dwayne Johnson.

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2288
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:30 pm 
 

Rocky Johnson was before my time and never came on my radar but from I what I did see of his matches over the years he was a very capable worker and very agile for a big man. Shame.

Top
 Profile  
Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 1403
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:28 pm 
 

Edge's return was the best part of the Royal Rumble.

Anyway, despite me loving Edge, I hope he doesn't wrestle regularly again. Isn't his body all banged up from all those gimmick matches he took part in back in the day? He had to retire nearly a decade ago because of his neck.
_________________
Last.FM | Myanimelist | Letterboxd

Top
 Profile  
rawsewage
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 412
Location: Shamokin, PA
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:28 pm 
 

Festivus wrote:
Edge's return was the best part of the Royal Rumble.

Anyway, despite me loving Edge, I hope he doesn't wrestle regularly again. Isn't his body all banged up from all those gimmick matches he took part in back in the day? He had to retire nearly a decade ago because of his neck.



Rumor has it he signed for 3 years.

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:18 pm 
 

That was one of the best men's Rumble matches in company history. Storytelling that actually serves to elevate someone, which WWE's booking never does anymore.

Finally pulling the trigger on Drew McIntryre was the right call.
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:31 am 
 

I wanted Shayna to win the women's rumble (and I really hated the Santino spot) - but otherwise, what a great show! I've felt like Raw/SmackDown have been treading water ever since 'Dynamite' started airing and this was the first main roster show in a long time that I thoroughly enjoyed from top to bottom.

The women's rumble was great. Bianca Belair and Shayna crushed it. Men's rumble, to me, started kind of shaky with Brock just decimating everyone. I wish they had given Keith Lee more but thought the showdown with Brock was awesome. Loved Edge's return (man, he is IN SHAPE). Loved Drew McIntyre winning the whole thing.

Looks like business is picking up as we turn the corner to Mania season!

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:47 am 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
Men's rumble, to me, started kind of shaky with Brock just decimating everyone.


I loved the storytelling they did with the Rumble match, though. The Rumble is really supposed to make mega stars, and the story they told with Brock and Drew did just that.
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
motorsport
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:48 pm
Posts: 206
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:20 am 
 

Eliminating Brock, Seth and Roman in the same rumble is nothing to sneeze at. Mans got the rocket now.

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:40 am 
 

Oh yeah, I know I’m nitpicking a bit when I say that. I should’ve mentioned that I was worried about it with Brock decimating everyone because of all the times they have done that with no payoff. I was very happy with it in the end!

Btw, how crazy is it that they missed Edge’s first spear by cutting to a kid in the crowd?

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:25 am 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
Oh yeah, I know I’m nitpicking a bit when I say that. I should’ve mentioned that I was worried about it with Brock decimating everyone because of all the times they have done that with no payoff. I was very happy with it in the end!

Btw, how crazy is it that they missed Edge’s first spear by cutting to a kid in the crowd?


Live events are live events. Why did they use a replay image of Charlotte Flair delivering the Big Boot to Asuka last night from the one camera angle that revealed exactly how the shot was worked? Things are happening in real time in the Gorilla, too.
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:38 pm 
 

Sedition and Pockets wrote:
Bingewolf wrote:
Oh yeah, I know I’m nitpicking a bit when I say that. I should’ve mentioned that I was worried about it with Brock decimating everyone because of all the times they have done that with no payoff. I was very happy with it in the end!

Btw, how crazy is it that they missed Edge’s first spear by cutting to a kid in the crowd?


Live events are live events. Why did they use a replay image of Charlotte Flair delivering the Big Boot to Asuka last night from the one camera angle that revealed exactly how the shot was worked? Things are happening in real time in the Gorilla, too.


Of course, but that's still a bad miss. I work in live entertainment and it would never be acceptable to miss something like that. Mistakes are mistakes, but that's a bad one. That's my only point.

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:42 pm 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
Sedition and Pockets wrote:
Bingewolf wrote:
Oh yeah, I know I’m nitpicking a bit when I say that. I should’ve mentioned that I was worried about it with Brock decimating everyone because of all the times they have done that with no payoff. I was very happy with it in the end!

Btw, how crazy is it that they missed Edge’s first spear by cutting to a kid in the crowd?


Live events are live events. Why did they use a replay image of Charlotte Flair delivering the Big Boot to Asuka last night from the one camera angle that revealed exactly how the shot was worked? Things are happening in real time in the Gorilla, too.


Of course, but that's still a bad miss. I work in live entertainment and it would never be acceptable to miss something like that. Mistakes are mistakes, but that's a bad one. That's my only point.


But do you have a 70 year old man babbling constantly into your earbud tho? VKM is not a positive influence on WWE live ents these days, methinks.
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:31 am 
 

I've been watching a lot of NXT UK lately, and while I love, love, love his ring and character work, I do not understand why WWE thinks it is ok to have WALTER come to the ring in literal SS gear.
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2288
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:56 am 
 

Sedition and Pockets wrote:
I've been watching a lot of NXT UK lately, and while I love, love, love his ring and character work, I do not understand why WWE thinks it is ok to have WALTER come to the ring in literal SS gear.


WWE and cheap heat? Why they would never!

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:10 pm 
 

We all know that Vince will go as low as he can if he thinks it will get over with the audience. We are talking about the same company that has run muslim terrorist storylines, Akeem the African Dream, Kerwin White, Cryme Tyme, the Mexicools.... VKM using racial epithets on TV... JBL going hunting for illegal aliens... Piper in blackface...

Vince would probably have Imperium goose-stepping with nazi armbands on if he could...

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:41 pm 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
We all know that Vince will go as low as he can if he thinks it will get over with the audience. We are talking about the same company that has run muslim terrorist storylines, Akeem the African Dream, Kerwin White, Cryme Tyme, the Mexicools.... VKM using racial epithets on TV... JBL going hunting for illegal aliens... Piper in blackface...

Vince would probably have Imperium goose-stepping with nazi armbands on if he could...


I guess I'm mostly just surprised that I haven't heard much outcry about it from the IWC.
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:01 pm 
 

Sedition and Pockets wrote:
Bingewolf wrote:
We all know that Vince will go as low as he can if he thinks it will get over with the audience. We are talking about the same company that has run muslim terrorist storylines, Akeem the African Dream, Kerwin White, Cryme Tyme, the Mexicools.... VKM using racial epithets on TV... JBL going hunting for illegal aliens... Piper in blackface...

Vince would probably have Imperium goose-stepping with nazi armbands on if he could...


I guess I'm mostly just surprised that I haven't heard much outcry about it from the IWC.


I think, in most cases, wrestling fans are fine with whatever they are given as long as they like the storyline and the in-ring action. As much as I've always enjoyed wrestling, it does seem to be one of those places where they can get away with stuff that no one else could. The fanbase allows it and doesn't leave so advertisers don't leave, and that means VKM can do whatever he wants...

VKM has always played up stereotypes to the maximum - whether those things are ok or not. Frankly, I was really disappointed to see "Santina" show up in the women's rumble in fucking 2020. But I really believe that VKM doesn't know any better or think wiser of things like that. He's in a bubble where he has lowest common denominator humor and a career of overplaying stereotypes so he truly doesn't get it (or care) when people are offended by things he puts on TV. I mean, the man had Mae Young give birth to a hand... He'll take whatever cheap pop/heat he can get - and he is afforded liberties that no one else gets.

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:22 pm 
 

Yeah, for obvious reasons, pulling "Santina" back out at the Rumble was personally infuriating for me.
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2288
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 2:27 am 
 

You got to remember that wrestling is a carny and "a low common denominator" business. Of course things have changed but VKM is from a different era - he remembers the territories and still has a link to that carny side of the business. That is why is he is not gonna stop himself if he thinks something will draw heat or get a cheap pop - even stuff like "Santina". The guy has been living in a WWF/WWE wrestling buble for so long that he does not take other stuff into consideration. In short - he is a dinosaur.

Top
 Profile  
InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1504
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:34 pm 
 

Zdan wrote:
You got to remember that wrestling is a carny and "a low common denominator" business. Of course things have changed but VKM is from a different era - he remembers the territories and still has a link to that carny side of the business. That is why is he is not gonna stop himself if he thinks something will draw heat or get a cheap pop - even stuff like "Santina". The guy has been living in a WWF/WWE wrestling buble for so long that he does not take other stuff into consideration. In short - he is a dinosaur.


Yes, pro-wresting needs to be quite basic and appeal to low common denominator. I think the medium doesn't lend itself to tell really complex stories. It's about base instincts and base feelings. However this can be done several different ways. The pro-wrestlig of the major companies in Japan usually does it quite classy. They appeal more to base instincts about striving to be the best, revenge, dishonour, fighting spirit etc.

WWE has a whole other tradition and can sometimes slip into strong stereotypes which might feel dated. I just recently rewatched some 1992 stuff and Kamala is one such example (african savage with very limited brain power). We saw it with the Mexicools entering the ring on lawn mowers and on it goes. But then again WWE has a tendency to love bodily fluid jokes as well - piss and shit are actually the shit with Vince.

I never tried to tell myself pro-wrestling was sofisticated. At its best it makes one engaged with the very base feelings a person has. However I prefer when they use it in a more mature way and with some sort of class.

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:30 pm 
 

Yeah, one moment that always sticks out to me was when Natalya's gimmick was that she had uncontrollable farts... Genius storytelling there, Vince.

I'm glad you mentioned Kamala... Kamala, Akeem the African Dream, Junkyard Dog, Kerwin White, et al convinced me a long time ago that Vince is probably racist. I think that the Japanese companies are the perfect example of playing to lowest common denominator but without belittling people. Vince certainly has a penchant for making a mockery of black and brown people, women, etc. - to the point where it couldn't just be coincidental when he books stuff like that over and over again.

I also read a story about Vince a year or so ago where it broke down his daily routines and habits. Apparently, the only things he watches are WWE and football. He has built a world around him that only contains those two things so it's no wonder that the product is the exact same and doesn't evolve.

I had a bit of hope that Heyman getting more control would lead to changes but I think that won't happen until Vince is no longer involved. We know Heyman can create interesting stories. We know HHH can create interesting stories through what he's doing in NXT. So these things can happen on Raw and Smackdown too if Vince would allow it.

Top
 Profile  
InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1504
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:49 pm 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
I'm glad you mentioned Kamala... Kamala, Akeem the African Dream, Junkyard Dog, Kerwin White, et al convinced me a long time ago that Vince is probably racist.


I don't want to comment on his personal views but to me it seems like he loves anything that gets a reaction and that he's not very sensitive if that is something accepted in society at large or not. I don't think it is specifically racist or sexist even though those parts are definately there. He also exploits the deaths of his performers (Eddie Guerrero being the most famous one), he loves to make fun of fat people (Bastion Booger), he has angles where people gets covered in shit (himself and the spirit squad), has an angle where a performer peed in another performers tea (Jericho and Regal) etc. Its just low level, childish, create an instant reaction type stuff.

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:12 pm 
 

You know, that's a very fair point. He does seem to give everyone the same treatment. Can't forget Eugene or Festus and his transformation into Luke Gallows...

I do think that we see more of it directed at black and brown people than other groups... but your point is well-taken! He just has no understanding or sensitivity to those things, I guess.

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:32 pm 
 

Even some of the best gimmicks in company history had, at best, problematic origins, though the performers rose above their material (ie The New Day or Eddie Guerrero's "Lie, Cheat, Steal" gimmick).
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
Zdan
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2288
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:37 am 
 

Vince is simply a carny and has no qualms about something insensitive if he thinks it will get over and draw money. The problem with him is that is so out of touch that he does not get what draws money anymore. That is why I moved to NJPW, AEW and Lucha Underground as they seem to focus on in-ring action a lot (and Lucha Underground has this b-movie silly appeal to it too!).

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:40 am 
 

Zdan wrote:
Vince is simply a carny and has no qualms about something insensitive if he thinks it will get over and draw money. The problem with him is that is so out of touch that he does not get what draws money anymore. That is why I moved to NJPW, AEW and Lucha Underground as they seem to focus on in-ring action a lot (and Lucha Underground has this b-movie silly appeal to it too!).



It was a real shame how Lucia Underground turned out. That show was a lot of fun but ended on quite sour terms for everyone.

It’s so surprising all of the ups and downs in the business but Impact still remains - and is actually thriving again!

Top
 Profile  
InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1504
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:05 pm 
 

Zdan wrote:
Vince is simply a carny and has no qualms about something insensitive if he thinks it will get over and draw money. The problem with him is that is so out of touch that he does not get what draws money anymore. That is why I moved to NJPW, AEW and Lucha Underground as they seem to focus on in-ring action a lot (and Lucha Underground has this b-movie silly appeal to it too!).


I think WWE is more successful now than it ever has been in terms of safe revenue. Its true there is no huge draw as it used to be in the 80's or 90's but the brand today is huge and the money they make only from the tv-deals for RAW and SmackDown are simpl unmatched as far as I understand. The market has changed, it is no loger built around that one big baby face (even though it of course wouldn't hurt if a wrestling with drawing power like a Hogan, Austin or Cena came around again.

Bur sure, I agree that Vince has lost his touch in many ways (although I only really see the really big shows nowadays so I'm not all up to date).

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:15 pm 
 

So, you are somewhat right but somewhat wrong. Yes, the WWE is making money hand-over-fist. More so than they have at any point of the company history. And that is on the shoulders of the "WWE" brand - not one person. Even Ronda didn't move the needle in a meaningful way when she came in. Or the rise of Becky Lynch. Et al.

That said, there is major concern over the sustainability of this momentum. The TV ratings are decreasing in a big way. The perfect storm was there for them to land major TV contracts this time around but they now need to deliver against those numbers to renew those contracts. The WWE Network is stagnant. Live event sales and demand are way down. And there are a lot of questions about Vince McMahon's direction for the company.

They also fired their co-presidents on Friday and their stock is free falling ahead of their Q4 earnings report on Thursday.

So there are some very big warning signs at the moment. Especially with viable competition emerging.

Don't get me wrong, they will right the ship and weather the storm - but they definitely need to address some of these things and all of that goes back to Vince's heavy involvement in every aspect of the business.

Top
 Profile  
Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 535
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:02 am 
 

Their bigger long-term issues are structural in nature and not really caused by VKM or anyone else in the company, viz the slow death of broadcast and cable television.
_________________
The Party for Socialism and Liberation (PSL)|Our Program/What We Stand For|Liberation News|Join Us

Top
 Profile  
InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1504
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:25 pm 
 

Bingewolf wrote:
That said, there is major concern over the sustainability of this momentum. The TV ratings are decreasing in a big way. The perfect storm was there for them to land major TV contracts this time around but they now need to deliver against those numbers to renew those contracts. The WWE Network is stagnant. Live event sales and demand are way down. And there are a lot of questions about Vince McMahon's direction for the company.

They also fired their co-presidents on Friday and their stock is free falling ahead of their Q4 earnings report on Thursday.

So there are some very big warning signs at the moment. Especially with viable competition emerging.


Yes. But how does WWE's numbers hold up to competing shows? WWE numbers are down but so are other numbers as far as I know. The real important think is how the lower number of WWE compare to the lower number of other tv-shows. Of course, in the future there might be little money at all in cable companies and the like (when that business is close to dead) but as long as WWE stands up against the competition I think there is money to be made.

But it will be interesting to see how the business will change in 20 years time with the death of traditional TV. Will the big money be in being broadcast on networks such as Netflix (or of course their own network) or will it shift back to being more based on great live gates?

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:47 pm 
 

Vince certainly cannot control the general drift away from traditional television but the bigger, long-term structural issues are certainly directly impacted by VKM. He is quite literally involved in every meaningful decision in the company.

In terms of WWE ratings versus other television, I think you have to look at live sports ratings as it's the only thing comparable. NFL is down but NFL is also in crisis mode overall. NBA and college football ratings continue to do well and even grow.

If you look at "weekly episodic television," ratings are generally down across the board. However, that still means that TV deals are not going to be worth the same thing when it's time to negotiate those again. It also seems like WWE Network is just not working as a scalable business model. They have plateaued out a ~1million (give or take the churning audience that comes in for WrestleMania) and, to compete with AEW, they took their most popular network show off the network and put it on TV instead. Whereas a company like UFC did their OTT deal with ESPN+ and have their ancillary OTT app that doesn't contain much actual UFC content (just other leagues, etc), WWE took their most successful OTT property to cable TV.

And if we're talking live gates, WWE is performing even worse. They just announced a big scaling back of their non-televised live events after years of struggling to draw decent crowds. I think this is impacted by the overall rise in popularity of wrestling again - and the rise isn't amongst kids. It's amongst 20s and 30s somethings who go to bars for indie wrestling shows, get wasted with their friends and watch people hit each other with light tubes. I.e. non-PG wrestling. So, WWE is still the biggest fish in the pond by a long shot. But there are a lot more choices for an evolving audience. So, as opposed to say 2015, "wrestling" is up, WWE is down.

Despite all the things I'm posting, I am not a "WWE hater" - I just think there are some real red flags from a business standpoint that they are going to have to address. And it seems as though they can't really address them if VKM is the final decision maker. He's an older guy who basically revolutionized this genre of entertainment - and he's not going to change what he thinks works for anyone.

Top
 Profile  
acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1615
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:29 pm 
 

Man, I wish Court Bauer could hold onto better quality talent, because MLW has been putting out the best weekly TV show for months, in terms of format.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
Rage tweeting and dank memes are not essential public services.

darkeningday wrote:
I haven't saw any of the Seen movies.

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:50 pm 
 

I really like MLW too. Will be interesting to see what happens if they get a real TV deal now that they have a major Hollywood agency representing them.

Top
 Profile  
acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1615
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:34 pm 
 

With MLW making allegations about WWE tampering with their contracted talent, and allegedly having evidence, why do I feel like a deal with AEW could be on the horizon? Bauer would help the AEW product with his knowledge (~20 years in the business) and could do wonders as part of their booking team.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
Rage tweeting and dank memes are not essential public services.

darkeningday wrote:
I haven't saw any of the Seen movies.

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:50 pm 
 

I don't foresee MLW and AEW would make a deal like that... They have a bit of a contentious relationship based on AEW taking their talent too (MJF being the big example). Right now, I don't think AEW should/would make any kind of deal like that with an American indie promotion. They have their sights set on being a WCW type alternative to WWE - the other "big show in town," if you will. Co-pros would make them look like just another indie... And Court isn't going to fold MLW into AEW either. He's put too much work into it and just inked a deal with ICM (one of the big four talent agencies in Hollywood" to potentially get a bigger TV deal of their own.

The only exception I could see for an indie promotion working with AEW would be NWA because of Dusty Rhodes' long history there and the crossover they've already done with Cody. That said, it seems as though NWA and ROH are working together again so that would have to end first.

I think the tampering thing is a small thing that will blow over. More of a warning shot - which has been lobbed at WWE by various Indies over the years too. My guess is they're trying to keep WWE away from Jacob Fatu and decided making that public would be a good tactic to slow it down.

Top
 Profile  
acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1615
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:11 pm 
 

I'm in the opposite camp in that I think AEW should 100% be partnering up, officially, with smaller companies. Smooth out the details of the dealings (which basically means advertise the smaller shows) and use the indies as house shows for younger talent to gain more experience. They're already kinda/sorta doing this with PWG, Beyond, and Limitless; however, an expansion into official partnerships would cement them as the antithesis of WWE (who've critically injured international interest in the UK scene) and a true evolution of the WCW idea.

Think of it this way: the local show at an Elks Lodge in Suburbyville would benefit greatly from being able to advertise AEW star Sammy Guevara, and AEW star Sammy Guevara would benefit from the experience. Not only that, but now if fellow AEW star Jungle Boy is booked on the same show and they interact, footage of two AEW stars interacting outside of AEW can be used. Then Johnny Local Fan, who hasn't been to a WWE show in 10 years because they don't tour his area, now tunes into Dynamite because he saw two AEW stars go at it in his town.

There's a bigger roster than can be used weekly by AEW, and subbing them out to smaller, regional affiliates will help develop hitter territories and aid in future scouting. This even fits into their "progressive" appearance, as a company, by actively supporting small businesses.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
Rage tweeting and dank memes are not essential public services.

darkeningday wrote:
I haven't saw any of the Seen movies.

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:26 pm 
 

That's cool in theory but think of it from a business perspective... What does AEW gain by advertising shows that happen in an elk lodge when they are trying to be taken seriously and play bigger venues to compete with WWE?

As you mentioned, the talent is able to go do these things themselves to get ring work (and money) and these promoters would immediately sign away any rights to show something that happened at their show if AEW wanted to do it. So right now, this essentially exists, and AEW doesn't have to put their name on it. In your scenario, AEW is attaching themselves to events that are smaller in scale AND production than what they should be.

Frankly, I think the key to AEW scaling bigger is to show themselves as legitimate to WWE's fans who are mainstream types (not diehard wrestling fans). They need to be "big" and "flashy" while still providing a truly quality in-ring product.

In terms of a bigger roster to be used on AEW, they barely utilize the roster they have on a regular basis and I think that is the biggest "knock" I could make on their show currently. People either go missing for weeks or they turn into these huge jumbles that don't necessarily make sense (like what WWE does every week). Roster size is not an issue for them when they're doing one show per week.

Don't get me wrong, you're describing how wrestling was back in the day and there's a lot of good that comes from that - including regional scenes that local fans can support and develop - but that kind of model is not what is going to grow AEW into a major mainstream company - and that is the expectation they (and TNT) have for their show.

I am a huge proponent of supporting small businesses (buying local, etc.) but when you're trying to do what they are trying to do, the rub from this would hurt more than help.

Frankly, I think NWA is the one who should be carrying out your vision. NWA was built off the backs of regional promoters and I have a huge affinity for what the NWA was back then - and it fits perfectly with what they are trying to do in this revival under Billy Corgan.

Top
 Profile  
acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1615
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:08 pm 
 

That's the thing, though: AEW shouldn't be trying to take over WWE's marketshare. In fact, that's even something they've openly said they aren't doing. You don't need to attract the WWE audience when you're drawing comparable numbers featuring a guy they didn't value (Cody) and the industry's biggest weeb (Omega). A big draw when they announced Moxley and Jericho signing were how they'd perform without the WWE script holding them back, even, so positioning themselves to take away from the audience that either a) doesn't care about them or b) is going to tune in anyway isn't a smart move.

See: AWA, JCP, WCW, TNA

I'd be willing to relent and say that Billy Corgan could build the NWA brand back up, but the allure is in it being a throwback. It's retro wrestling, from the presentation to the kinds of talent they're displaying. Something tells me that we won't see a barbed wire deathmatch or a lucha spotfest extravaganza on Powerr anytime soon, but we've already seen something similar in an AEW ring, which means that most indies that actually matter would be left out of an NWA deal based on stylistic reasons.

Beyond this very niche market within an already niche market, the name brand of "National Wrestling Alliance" is forever tarnished. Shane Douglas threw their belt down in 1994 and spit on it, launching the most important wrestling company of the decade. Vince Russo booked their belt into insane nothingness 10 years later, which did nobody any favors.

Regardless, I'll cop to just being a fan who wants to see smaller companies get a little mention now and then. Cutting developmental deals with a few companies and officially using them as territories to grow younger talent when not on TV is just, like, the most obvious idea to me. That and I really wouldn't mind something akin to TNA's early "revolving door" policy be utilized better in 2020.

On a similar note, there's some word on Beyond vying for a legitimate TV deal nowadays, too. They'd probably be more willing to use footage from other companies in this way, especially since the IWTV promotions all share talent as it is.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
Rage tweeting and dank memes are not essential public services.

darkeningday wrote:
I haven't saw any of the Seen movies.

Top
 Profile  
Bingewolf
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:59 pm
Posts: 648
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:40 pm 
 

Here is the thing: AEW has to draw the ratings that TNT sees value in. It's not that they need to take from WWE's playbook - but they do need to feel bigger than the Indies. I get where you're coming from in wanting to see smaller companies get shine but that in itself is a niche.

The other thing I expect to say play out this year is what Anthem has in-store for AXS TV. I doubt Beyond would get a meaningful TV deal on their own - but I could envision Anthem expanding wrestling content on AXS (and Fight Network in Canada). Saw they just added A1 programming to their app and I can envision them doing more of that. It also seems that WWE Network is going to start expanding with other promotions. They are signing deals with companies like ICW so something is in-store and there's been much discussion around them expanding the Network.

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8805
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:38 am 
 

So...Hana Kimura from Stardom killed herself. She was appearing on a Japanese reality show called Terrace House, and apparently some shit went down on the show that she reacted badly to, then later apologized for, but the show’s fanbase still ravaged her online regardless. She posted photos on Twitter of her wrists all sliced up with captions that read like a suicide note, and she was just announced to be dead at around midnight.

She literally got cyberbullied into suicide because she got into an argument with someone on a fucking TV show.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group