Saxon - Destiny

I realize that a majority of Saxon fans don't like this record, and that the vast majority of those on Metallum likely would also despise Destiny (48% average of 5 reviews: three ~20% reviews; two positive but one of them is my own). Much of the record is horribly cheesy, and it is indeed a betrayal of the band's heavy metal sound of the early days. However, I really don't think Destiny is all that bad; I guess I like crappy glam rock. To be honest I like Destiny more than what I have heard off of Rock the Nations and some of the closer albums that succeed it. I do understand a good amount the hate for the record and I definitely won't tell people that they aren't Saxon fans for not liking the album (obviously they are), but I do think it is much better than other sellout attempts by some of their contemporaries (like Grave Digger's Stronger Than Ever, for instance). I'm somewhat happy that Saxon sold out during the 80's for glam and not in the 90's for groove.

A few that others have touched on:

Judas Priest: Ram it Down. I don't know if it is so much hated as overlooked. It has the unfortunate position of being the album after the album that made everyone stop caring, and before the album that brought them roaring back. Blood Red Skies is a fucking masterpiece, and if you haven't done so, I recommend the the 12 minute version that is floating around YouTube.

Iron Maiden: X Factor. As others have said, this is a far better record than it is rated. Sign of the Cross is a fucking excellent song. It's not perfect, and songs like Fortunes of War are too long and drag. Blaze is a solid vocalist here, and the biggest crime he commited was following in the footsteps of a vocalist that couldn't be replaced. This album could have used one or two of the shorter tracks that didn't make the record, such as I Live My Way or Justice of the Peace.



Nah man, this just sucks.

I'm gonna agree with you on Risk. If not for Super Collider (which I can't really get into but for a few songs), it'd be the lowest rated Megadeth album by 12% up to The World Needs a Hero (50% vs 62% here on MA).

Risk could've been a pretty decent album if it wasn't so long. Dave really needed to edit a bit here and cut those 51 minutes down to maybe 35 minutes, cutting out 3-4 of the most boring tracks. Leading with Insomnia, Prince of Darkness, Crush 'Em and Breadline, the entire first half of the album is pretty solid and pretty much in tune with the direction Megadeth would be expected to take coming off of Cryptic Writings.

I get that Dave was more or less taking Megadeth into the opposite direction of what their old fans wanted, probably in a bid to stay relevant or find new fans in a broader audience. He was definitely experimenting with the formula, and I kind of like the result. Those first four songs (I don't count Enter the Arena as its own thing) were probably among my most listened to Megadeth tracks for a good long while some ten years ago. Ironically it wouldn't be until Dave's solo album (The System Has Failed, which was released as a Megadeth album after all) that the band would be sort of returning to something more recognisable as the Megadeth we knew.

I think Risk and Super Collider are both decent albums. In particular, I think the three song run of "I'll Be There", "Wanderlust" and "Ecstasy" on the former is brilliant.

I think Risk is a bad album overall, but I'd still pick it over anything they released after it. However misguided the inspiration for that album was, there was at least some inspiration. Everything after it is incredibly phoned in, even something like Endgame, which I remember people liking a lot when it came out.

I was a die-hard when The World Needs a Hero came out, but that album ended it for me. What an embarrassing album. People were happy that it was not Risk 2, but I actually thought it was worse than Risk. The System was serviceable, it got my hopes up, but at some point I realized they were on autopilot and they were always going to be. I checked out every subsequent album just for old times' sake, but nothing stuck.

I couldn't agree more with Lamb of gods' NAG, that and Burn The Priest album is all I can enjoy by them. The production on NAG was excellent as well. Steve Austin did a great job on it (can't say that for other bands he works with). Plus i really enjoyed Randy's vocals on NAG, he had something differnt going but familiar, almost like Dave Brockie's at times.

I'm still not sure why people use MA ratings for claiming an album is well liked or not. You all realize they are completely arbitrary, don't you? Yeah, four people didn't like that album, how is four people not liking something relevant? Just saying this because I've seen them used a few times in this thread and it makes no sense.

That's true. Hence, why I go for albums that were reviewed by at least 10 people or more whenever I call an album overrated/overhated. Just because two people give an album a 0% doesn't mean everyone else thinks that way to the album.

It's not on the Archives anymore but I've always been fond of 2wo's Voyeurs. While the album was lambasted for Halford joining the industrial trend and declaring that metal was dead at the time, it was a fairly logical progression from his fight. He may not use the full extent of his range but I really get into the mood of his performance. That combination of frustration, apathy, and sadness is one that resonates and there is some real catharsis on tracks like I Am A Pig, Stutter Kiss, and Bed of Rust. I think it's more forgotten than outright hated these days, but I definitely remember it having a lot of rough coverage.

Neurosis Honor Found In Decay

So much hate even from life long fans but I never got the hate.
The album is a slow burn and repetitive, but that's why I love it the band members lost loved ones before and during the writing process and channel the emotions into the song writing. The stages of grief appear throughout this work of art. All is found in time is a masterpiece that build up in the beginning up until that hammer crushes you back down. That moment is so worth it. I easily put this in my top three by them.

Not counting the troll reviews from guys who only gave/give 0%-5% ratings. Also, the zealots who give 100% to every shit their favorite artist take distort the overall average rate. The MA rating can only be midly useful when there are enough reviews to flatten the most extreme ratings.

I’m mostly with you on this. I also go to bat for “Too Extreme”, “Profundis-Mea Culpa”, and “Destructos/Attack”. None of those are great songs per se, but they are very interesting conceptual ideas, particularly the former two blending death metal with hardcore techno. It took huge balls to even try this. The only throwaway tracks are “I Am Morbid” and “Radikult”, huge missteps there. Illud is a way more memorable album as a whole compared to Kingdoms.

Also, The Unspoken King is nowhere near as bad as it’s made out to be, it’s infinitely superior to the tuneless, formless, utter nonsense album Once Was Not. That album is worthy of scorn for having utterly structureless songs, a drum centric production, completely unmemorable riffs, and one of the most phoned in vocal performance I’ve ever heard. At least TUK has some interesting ideas and memorable songs.

That is to say, nether album is close to being the best work by either band. That should be obvious. But I always think some degree of credit is due when bands don’t play it safe. Which playing it safe is arguably the route both bands took after these albums, with very different results (I like what Cryptopsy has done, don’t care at all for Kingdoms).

Nah, that album was really bad. Neurosis was my favourite band time at the time and I hated it. I clearly remember people at shows going to the bathroom or the bar when they played songs from it. Meanwhile, people were moshing to songs from Given to the Rising. It's their St. Anger.

The problem was not the album being too slow or repetitive (all their albums are to a degree). I mean, it was part of the problem but still not the whole picture. For me it's the awful keyboards (honestly, the whole album could have worked with better keyboards), the dumbed down and plastic sounding production that makes the songs fall flat, all songs are way too long, they use major keys in a few songs and it doesn't work at all, most of the songs are just the same two/three mediocre ideas repeated ad nauseam, etc. It's their worst album and their only misstep so far. I still think something decent could have come out of it with a different production, shorter songs and better keyboards but this is a really bad album that gets a pass because it's Neurosis.

Honor Found in Decay was so bad their next album was the complete opposite: shorter songs with more ideas, organic and rich sound full of keyboard textures, keyboards being a lot more predominant and better, better riffs, much shorter album, etc.

I can see your points and understand what you are saying and agree with Fires Within fires. That album just comes at you out of the gate. They are band that no matter what I'll listen and respect what they do. Like all of us they aren't perfect. But that albums holds a place in my heart.

I have three albums.

Peace Sells is my favorite Megadeth album, but Risk was the first album I heard, and I liked.

I'm not a fan of Glam, but I also like the infamous Cold Lake album. Sure, without the Frost logo, it would be a different story, but for me is a good record.

X-Factor is a great album. I always had some Glen Danzig/Lee Ving vibes with Blaze vocals. I love it musically and lyrically.

Emperor's Prometheus. Yes, it's a departure from their typical sound, and I can appreciate why someone would prefer Nightside, but it's an excellent album that broke some serious ground, and sadly nobody followed in their footsteps.

The black metal scene is full of a bunch of mouth breathers who hate innovation. It's sad.

I guess I can understand it if you're doing a comparison to the albums that immediately preceded it, but I think We Are The Void gets a bit unfairly maligned as far as Dark Tranquillity's discography is concerned. Songs like Iridium and In My Absence are some of my favourites of theirs. It's not their best album by any stretch, but it's not their worst either (personally I think Construct is the weakest album they've released.)

Since Cold Lake was mentioned earlier, I'll throw in Discharge - Grave New World. It may be because I just read a Decibel Magazine feature on it, but I actually don't think it's as bad as it's often made out to be. I'm not saying it's a masterpiece by any means, but I find something oddly interesting about the idea of a bunch of punks trying to make a glam metal album. It doesn't really sound that much like the glam stuff that was popular at the time, and even though it's mostly a complete 180 from what they were previously doing, there are still elements of the D-Beat sound present if you listen closely.

I'm listening to the Death Magnetic 2016 - Blackened Recordings / WEB edition and they actually fixed the sound. It's an official release and it sounds fine in case any of you is interested. I've also never understood the hate for Death Magnetic. Sure, it's not the best Metallica album but it's pretty decent. Maybe a bit too long (I would have made it only 8 songs long) but it's a decent 65/100. Maybe I'm biased because I've always though Metallica were a song band as opposed to being an album band so I don't think any of their albums as a whole is brilliant.

St. Anger could have been great if it sounded a bit better (just better drums, I'm not really asking for much more) and the songs had better structures and less in necessary repetitions. Some of the songs are pretty cool. I don't hate the album though and The Unnamed Feeling is incredible.

Risk is not a good album though. It has a few decent songs. A few good moments, but it's a week album, and like you mentionned, it's way too long. Plus, it's a Megadeth album, so of course it will be compared to other releases. And when you have albums like Peace Sells and Rust in Peace, fans aren't going to like an album like Risk.

I personnally remember listening to it and getting into some of the tracks. Insomnia and The Doctor is Calling are still pretty decent, but I personnally dislike both Prince of Darkness and Crush 'Em. The choruses in both songs are pretty weak, and the riffing is uninspired, IMHO.

I'm not saying it deserves to be hated, but 50% is pretty much the score I'd give that album. Not complete garbage, but still extremely forgettable. I'd only recommand it to die hard Megadeth fans.

I think this re-recording of St. Anger shows that the album could have sounded better if Metallica made better decisions with the production. I still don't think it's a particularly good album, but they could've avoided a lot of grief if they didn't go for the trashcan snare sound among other things.

On the topic of St Anger, I got it the day it came out, and yeah, it sucked. It still sucks. However, my version came with a DVD of the band playing the album in a garage. That recording is so much better than the album version. The snare is fixed properly, and Trujillo is just a much better bassist compared to Bob Rock. It's also mixed very well. You can find it on YouTube. Worth checking out.

I think this is the video Terri23 is referring to if anyone was interested.

Yeah, this is the DVD that came with the CD. Sounds way better.

Speaking of Guns N Roses, one record that is way overhated is Chinese Democracy. The hype built up for it was way too much, causing people who heard it to be gravely disappointed. Then you get any combination of Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven doesn't play on it. It is not a bad album, but the contempt for the album a bit much. I have met a lot of people who actually like the album quite a bit.

Yeah, I love Chinese Democracy. I think it's better than both Use Your Illusion albums, and I think "There Was a Time", "Catcher in the Rye", "Madagascar" and "Prostitute" are some of their best songs. Even the worst songs on there, like "Scraped" or "Riad", I'd rate as 7/10.

Holy shit those two did Alphaville dirty what the fuck.


I love this album. I think Tongue of Fire is one of their best songs.

Well, maybe people aren´t too fond of the album because it sounds like Emperor didn´t want to play black metal anymore and instead wanted to be some kind of weird avant garde progessive bullshit band. Besides the whole album is basically an Isahn solo album and the other members don´t seem to be too fond of it.

And i believe black metal scene is probably one of the most diverse scenes around, they basically cater to almost all tastes. Wether it be doom tinted bands like Barathrum or Dodenkrocht, or DBSM like Xasthur, 2nd wave stuff like Darkthrone, or dissonant sounding black metal like Svartdaudi or even prog black metal like Enslaved. There is basically something to like for everyone. So saying black metal hates innovation seems like a ludicrous statement.

Thank you.

Add onto that people singling out power metal alone as "too cheesy" - as if every other metal subgenre doesn't have equal capacity for gorgonzola-level hamminess and unintentional comedy.

Yeah, I love weird black metal and Prometheus always struck as just a really bland album. It has this neoclassical arrangements that are supposed to be super deep but it all just feels really samey and uninteresting. Ihsahn's voice is also terrible for the whole album. Overall it sounds more like a solo album than an Emperor release.

Leave gorgonzola out of this or you're gonna catch these hands.

True, but on the other hand there's this stratum of BM fans who only want to hear darkthrone clones and nothing else.

And then, every band in every genre has these (sually rather vocal) fans who don't like it when that band changes things up. Hell, I know I'm that way about some bands myself.

You could just as easily argue that DM is equally diverse, but the question becomes how tightly any definitions of the genres have to be adhered to. There's a tendency to start defining the more experimental or tangential bands out of the genre.

The Burning Red by Machine Head.
It's got all the good things of the previous ones but more melody, better songwriting, better dynamics and it's overall less monotone and more menacing, also thanks to the unorthodox production. Lyrically nothing they did comes close in intensity. You can really tell they were high out of their minds.
Give me that over any of their later Metallica/Iron Maiden worship albums with plenty of needlessly long and intricate songs and perfunctory harmonized leads.
Metal heads mostly hate it because it's diverse and melodic and because of Robb Flynn's hair and looks at the time. Metal heads ridiculing somebody about silly hairdos and clothing will never make sense to me.
More accurately, I think I remember it's their best-selling album, so normal people don't actually hate it.
The next one, Supercharger, was much blander and uninspired and probably deserves some hate.

I agree about Cold Lake. It's not a good album but I don't understand all the hate and Tom Warrior still being so bitter about it.
So you made a bad album, big deal.
Plus, the music isn't nearly as atrocious as the cock-rock inspired artwork. It's just different and not at all what a fan of Celtic Frost's could have expected. Had Tom Warrior had it his way and had it come out under a different name, it wouldn't have been so big a deal and it would have probably just fallen into the oblivion.



Your arteries called, they are mad.



We're treading a thin line here, but I think power and black metal (and gothic, to a certain extent) have more potential for cheesiness, simply because they rely much more on theatrics and "drama", for lack of a better term.
For example, I can't imagine something like the mythology behind Norwegian black metal, church burnings, plenty of insanity and so on. In other genres people tend to take things and themselves less seriously and to be more chill as human beings.
In general, pomposity can also more easily lead to pretentiousness and cheesiness.

Yes!

I also think black metal is the most diverse metal genre around.



Nice one! I also like The Burning Red. It was a big departure so I understand the initial confusion but I think they actually did the genre crossing well on that one. It also includes one of my favourite songs by them in Five.

Wasn't Superchager more universally hated than The Burning Red? Not a great fan of The Burning Red either but it was ok, I though the consensus was Supercharger and Catharsis were way worse.

I think with Supercharger there was less outrage, though, since it was with The Burning Red that they went nu-metal, apparently (mostly because of how they looked, because musically I don't think it was that big a departure from previous records). Now it's probably less hated but more polarizing than Supercharger.
I seem to remember Robb Flynn still being a little defensive about The Burning Red in interviews etc.

Something else came to me...there are a couple of Napalm Death records around the mid 90s, the so called "groovy" era, that don't seem to get much love but I don't mind them.
Also Us And Them by Godflesh, but I honestly can't remember if all people hated it or only Justin Broadrick. It's certainly not a bad album, although it's weird even for Godflesh.

Aggregate ratings for TBR are a bit higher than SC, though both are well above Catharsis.

All this does is show that it's not just the sound that sucks, the songs blow too.
This reminds of the line in Unforgiven, "now I dub thee", those lyrics sucked. St Anger is an album full of that level of suckiness.