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severzhavnost
Something Stupid

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 2947
Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:57 am 
 

If I see the phrase “new normal” one more time, I think I will vomit. Work-from-home might become more widespread because companies will want to save money on office space. But in our social lives, this shit is not normal, and should never be thought of as such. Where we are now is weird, and most of all, temporary.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29907
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:56 am 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
If I see the phrase “new normal” one more time, I think I will vomit. Work-from-home might become more widespread because companies will want to save money on office space. But in our social lives, this shit is not normal, and should never be thought of as such. Where we are now is weird, and most of all, temporary.


Indeed. There are some people who seem to have really embraced and revelled in this new lifestyle and seem like they don't want to go back. Plenty of comments I see like "well I already never went out so this wasn't a change." That's fine for them but humans are a social species. I've felt my soul wither many times over the past year and have tried to do as much safe travel and stuff as possible to stay sane. There's no way this shit should be normalized. I am glad it seems to be close to over.

edit - OK, after reading the previous comments, yes, the global scale of vaccines and whatnot is concerning for sure. They're really being hoarded by a few rich countries and that's sick and sad. I can see that point too.
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severzhavnost
Something Stupid

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 2947
Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:55 am 
 

Empy, I’m Canadian and we are the laughingstock of the developed world on vaccination. So I’m sure not saying it won’t take a while... just that we will get there :) And people should try to avoid resigning themselves to this being our lives from now on.
Personally, the post-concussion syndrome has made large, loud groups a challenge for me, so I could be one of those “I wasn’t very social before, so it’s not a big loss” people you mentioned. But I don’t want to go that route.
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rejected review wrote:
Have you ever had Kimchi Waffle?
Kimchi Waffle was made by World Institute of Kimchi in South Korea.
It’s so powerful that your stomachs will damn.
Bulgogi Kimchi Bibimbap waffle burger! Holy shit! litterally shit!

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29907
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:18 am 
 

Yeah I've read that from several Canadian friends. Fucked up. I don't know why that is for you guys either - I'm sure there must be some weird reason.
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severzhavnost
Something Stupid

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 2947
Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 11:36 am 
 

The reason is the severe hollowing-out of Canada’s manufacturing capacity (across most if not all sectors, not just medical stuff) thanks to decades of North American free trade agreements. While that history is not the fault of the current government, their continued uselessness at starting up domestic production certainly is. Especially when we can look around the world and see many other countries ahead of us in getting their vaccine production off the ground, while we’re still sponging off Europe and the USA.
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rejected review wrote:
Have you ever had Kimchi Waffle?
Kimchi Waffle was made by World Institute of Kimchi in South Korea.
It’s so powerful that your stomachs will damn.
Bulgogi Kimchi Bibimbap waffle burger! Holy shit! litterally shit!

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Osore
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
Posts: 524
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:08 pm 
 

I don't know if that's the case with Canada, but every country that relies on Covax has a low supply.
For the first time in history our diplomatic relations with China and Russia have some purpose, since they sell the vaccines to us now, and will manufacture them in Serbia. Our government also ordered Pfizer and AstraZeneca on time, and we are going to get Moderna soon. That's one of the rare good things this government did since they came to throne in 2012. It's a shame we have so high transmission rate and antivaxxers, despite of having 36/100 people vaccinated. During 1972 Yugoslav smallpox outbreak vaccination was mandatory, as it should be now.
Sadly, it's all politics - Hungary also has a good pace thanks to vaccines from China and Russia, the rest of EU is too hesitant. Ok, Sinopharm is the least effective and there's no 3rd phase trial data, but there is no reason against Sputnik V, unless they are waiting for WHO to approve it, which is going to take some time, even more than Sinopharm's approval that is expected in mid April.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 897
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:40 pm 
 

Osore wrote:
I'm on the pessimistic side with Prigione Eterna here. We are creating a bottle neck with vaccines, don't be surprised when scary new mutants emerge before the vaccination is over. As much as I feel uncomfortable with mask and will probably remove it when the summer heat overwhelms me in the public transport if it's not crowded, it's going to be Russian roulette because we never know what we are going to catch. On a long run we don't expect the virus to become much more lethal, but everything that ensures its transmission from person to person is going to work. The point of ''parasite-host'' interaction is to make a coexistence, albeit with never-ending arms race.
The UK and Israel strategy works because they combine lock-down with vaccination, but in my country the numbers are high again primarily because we don't have a strict lock-down, and I've been suspecting the new variant is among us for quite some time.

To stay a bit more on topic in terms of music, I think concert places should be rearranged so that people can sit or stand while keeping the distance, but I can't imagine metal and rock fans behaving like they are on a funeral, unless it's a super slow funeral doom. XD People don't want to embrace this ''new normality'' and it is going to prolong the situation; I already have a feeling of being in a vicious cycle.


Why wouldn't they be able to create new boosters for the new variants?

Not to mention that SO FAR the vaccines have shown to be MOSTLY effective for the variants that already do exist.

We ARE going to EVENTUALLY overcome Covid to the point that it will be like the flu and you will just need to get your shots.

If you don't, there may be a problem, but I know i will and i'm returning to life as normal after that.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 897
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:49 pm 
 

Prigione Eterna wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Dude I hear what you're saying, but the vaccines seem to be quite effective.

They may need to make booster shots for the new variants, but from what I've heard it will be far easier to create similar vaccines for the new variants than it was to initially create the first one because at least now we have created one that is similar to the others so we aren't breaking entirely new ground.

Sure, they aren't 100% effective, but still quite effective so for me, I'm getting vaccinated soon and if new booster shots for other variants come out and are necessary I'll get all of them as soon as possible and then I'm going to live my life as usual and if I want to go to concerts I will and I don't think there's any reason for you or most people not to.

The only thing I will do differently for a while is wear masks in certain places if the CDC says that it's necessary to prevent asymptomatic spread if I can potentially get it but still not feel too bad due to my having the vaccine, but otherwise, I think the worst of this is over in terms of literally not being able to do ANYTHING like we used to.

I'm not saying it's over, cause it's not, especially for the idiots who won't get the vaccine or wear masks, but for those of us who get the vaccine I think we'll be ok.


No offense, but I'm going to borrow a phrase that I've read in a Paul Krugman's article: Americans have trouble understanding that other countries are real.
Of course the vaccines are effective, but you have to actually inject them into people's arms...
This is not how you manage a global pandemic. Pharmaceutical enterprises can't keep up with the production. At this pace, the US and few others are going to be fine, but the rest of the world will take much more to get back to "normal", whatever that means. I don't see the political will to compel them to waive the patents or at least give licenses to others to produce them, so I'm not sure how it's going to turn in the long run. Worst case, new variants could even outpace vaccination, and that would come back to bite the US, too.

In short, I think it's going to be at least very troublesome for a long time in much of the world for this kind of events. I mean, I can't think of many that are potentially more hazardous than a metal concert, drunk people elbow to elbow, screaming, slam dancing and whatnot. And yet, generally speaking, metal and rock music just isn't the same without that culture. It's not chamber music, no matter how you dress it. Metal and rock can't live off home studio one-man bands and streaming services. This is why, even if you're not that much into live shows, just listening to it sounds wrong, almost preposterous.

Technically, with the breakthroughs in the development of vaccines, going back to what it used to be could be possible, I'm not denying that, but on a global scale I just don't see the political commitment to do it.


Ok, well I try not, as an American, to not think of the rest of the world, and actually I'm an ESL tutor/teacher so I have more contact with people from other countries than most, but I must admit that selfish or not, I do think first about how I personally will handle my life in the near future as I've been working from home and barely going out for a year, and I think that at least in terms of my personal life and the people around me that things will generally return to being close to normal.

Like I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu which is closer contact than anything, people wrestling with eacother and sweating on eachother so it's as high risk as it gets, and at my school they never even stopped training except when they had to.

I think they should have been a bit more cautious and I stayed away, but I'm going back in 2 months once i get my vaccine which is scheduled later this month, and I very much doubt I'll have to stay away from there or pretty much anywhere else for any extended period of time due to covid in the future as I will simply get any and all vaccines ASAP, and when it comes to having to wear a mask, I will continue to do so for as long is necessary.

But in terms of the larger world, I do agree that there's going to be a problem getting the vaccine into enough arms and distributing it.

I'd say that a large part of the problem is also the simple fact that even where it's available so many idiots refuse to even take it and further spread the virus. I wish for every idiot (in any country) that had the opportunity to get it but chose not to that that same dose could be given to someone somewhere else who wants it but can't manage to get it.

I guess really none of us know what will happen, but i do think that the worst of it has passed at least in the sense that we have a vaccine now and will be able to modify it in the future so we aren't starting from scratch, but yes, the variants and difficulty getting the vaccines to those who need them are a problem.

However, as one other poster said, Covid isn't even CLOSE to the worst pandemic that has existed before. We were able to overcome Polio and the Spanish Flu and others, and I do believe we'll EVENTUALLY beat covid too, but it's going to take a long time.

I remain optimistic for my life and those I know, as well as those with the means to get the vaccine, but i do feel sorry for those who want it but can't get it.

For those who can get it but don't and then go around spreading their germs, there should be a special place in hell reserved...

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Osore
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
Posts: 524
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 6:33 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Osore wrote:
I'm on the pessimistic side with Prigione Eterna here. We are creating a bottle neck with vaccines, don't be surprised when scary new mutants emerge before the vaccination is over. As much as I feel uncomfortable with mask and will probably remove it when the summer heat overwhelms me in the public transport if it's not crowded, it's going to be Russian roulette because we never know what we are going to catch. On a long run we don't expect the virus to become much more lethal, but everything that ensures its transmission from person to person is going to work. The point of ''parasite-host'' interaction is to make a coexistence, albeit with never-ending arms race.
The UK and Israel strategy works because they combine lock-down with vaccination, but in my country the numbers are high again primarily because we don't have a strict lock-down, and I've been suspecting the new variant is among us for quite some time.

To stay a bit more on topic in terms of music, I think concert places should be rearranged so that people can sit or stand while keeping the distance, but I can't imagine metal and rock fans behaving like they are on a funeral, unless it's a super slow funeral doom. XD People don't want to embrace this ''new normality'' and it is going to prolong the situation; I already have a feeling of being in a vicious cycle.


Why wouldn't they be able to create new boosters for the new variants?

Not to mention that SO FAR the vaccines have shown to be MOSTLY effective for the variants that already do exist.

We ARE going to EVENTUALLY overcome Covid to the point that it will be like the flu and you will just need to get your shots.

They will be able to create vaccines that work against new variants, but some people won't be alive to see it, because vaccines come after new variants, not vice versa (I'm talking here about potential new variants that completely evade immunity, not British and South African). I don't know how long it will take for it to become like flu. Humanity will survive this, just like any other pandemic, but no one knows when. A year? -Probably not. 2 to 4? -Maybe. Remember that new variants will emerge more frequently as long as we have places with low vaccination rates, and Africa will become a melting pot because it has the slowest vaccination pace. Also, virus circulates between vaccinated people as well, so masks should be required for a long time. Knowing that people run to their old lifestyle as fast as they can, it just makes it worse.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
For those who can get it but don't and then go around spreading their germs, there should be a special place in hell reserved...
I don't believe in afterlife, but I think we should create a hell for them while they are still alive.

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
If you don't, there may be a problem, but I know i will and i'm returning to life as normal after that.

I'll have to go to work physically eventually to continue with experiments. I'm currently fine because being secluded is my ''normal'' lifestyle. I just don't like the image of other people who already plan their travels and gatherings. I think it would be good if at least the business meetings remain online before we see how the situation develops. I understand there are outgoing people, but I dislike that ''dogs unleashed'' behaviour.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 897
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:56 pm 
 

Osore wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Osore wrote:
I'm on the pessimistic side with Prigione Eterna here. We are creating a bottle neck with vaccines, don't be surprised when scary new mutants emerge before the vaccination is over. As much as I feel uncomfortable with mask and will probably remove it when the summer heat overwhelms me in the public transport if it's not crowded, it's going to be Russian roulette because we never know what we are going to catch. On a long run we don't expect the virus to become much more lethal, but everything that ensures its transmission from person to person is going to work. The point of ''parasite-host'' interaction is to make a coexistence, albeit with never-ending arms race.
The UK and Israel strategy works because they combine lock-down with vaccination, but in my country the numbers are high again primarily because we don't have a strict lock-down, and I've been suspecting the new variant is among us for quite some time.

To stay a bit more on topic in terms of music, I think concert places should be rearranged so that people can sit or stand while keeping the distance, but I can't imagine metal and rock fans behaving like they are on a funeral, unless it's a super slow funeral doom. XD People don't want to embrace this ''new normality'' and it is going to prolong the situation; I already have a feeling of being in a vicious cycle.


Why wouldn't they be able to create new boosters for the new variants?

Not to mention that SO FAR the vaccines have shown to be MOSTLY effective for the variants that already do exist.

We ARE going to EVENTUALLY overcome Covid to the point that it will be like the flu and you will just need to get your shots.

They will be able to create vaccines that work against new variants, but some people won't be alive to see it, because vaccines come after new variants, not vice versa (I'm talking here about potential new variants that completely evade immunity, not British and South African). I don't know how long it will take for it to become like flu. Humanity will survive this, just like any other pandemic, but no one knows when. A year? -Probably not. 2 to 4? -Maybe. Remember that new variants will emerge more frequently as long as we have places with low vaccination rates, and Africa will become a melting pot because it has the slowest vaccination pace. Also, virus circulates between vaccinated people as well, so masks should be required for a long time. Knowing that people run to their old lifestyle as fast as they can, it just makes it worse.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
For those who can get it but don't and then go around spreading their germs, there should be a special place in hell reserved...
I don't believe in afterlife, but I think we should create a hell for them while they are still alive.

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
If you don't, there may be a problem, but I know i will and i'm returning to life as normal after that.

I'll have to go to work physically eventually to continue with experiments. I'm currently fine because being secluded is my ''normal'' lifestyle. I just don't like the image of other people who already plan their travels and gatherings. I think it would be good if at least the business meetings remain online before we see how the situation develops. I understand there are outgoing people, but I dislike that ''dogs unleashed'' behaviour.


I'm just more optimistic than you, but we'll have to see which one of us is right.

I think you might be correct in terms of 3rd world countries and places in the world where people have less money, but in America and better off parts of Europe like the U.K., Sweden, Finland, Norway, the rest of Europe, Japan, etc, I don't think it's going to take as long as you think, and when it comes to poorer countries and continents like Africa or wherever else, I think that many people will rightfully be banned from traveling if they haven't been vaccinated so that should help prevent at least some of the spread.

I have been reading about the new variants, I'm not sure if you have, but so far they haven't found any variant that the current vaccines can't protect against, they just aren't QUITE as effective against them as against the original strain.

All the studies i've read and heard about thus far have said that the vaccines we already have should be enough so that at the very least you might get very mild flu like symptoms if you were to get covid, and that's not enough to scare me.

Like I said, I do Brazilian jiu-jitsu and martial arts where we wrestle with eachtother in close contact, and I've got my first shot scheduled later this month, then the 2nd in May and be June I will be fully vaccinated and I'll be going back to martial arts, unfortunately without a mask on cause you can't wear one when you are wrestling and it'll come off, and the other guys I train with seem to not be so smart about caring if they are vaccinated or not, but that's their choice not mine, so basically when i step on the mat there I already know that everyone who isn't vaccinated knows exactly what they are in for and has decided to "make their bed and sleep in it" so to speak, and I'd hope they'd care enough for themselves to get the shot like i do, but if not, it's one of those activities that there is literally no in-between with, you either train or you don't, and if a sweaty guy has you in a headlock you are still sharing germs even if the mask stays on.

When it comes to going out other places, I will probably usually wear a mask for as long as the CDC asks us to and will certainly respect all establishments where it's required, but maybe not if I get together with a few friends in someone's house or something and that person says they don't care.

I am a bit concerned about when I can return to the bar scene, as there's a bar near me I love going to, and I don't see how we can drink in close quarters for a while, but if enough people get vaccinated I think that in a year it will be ok to open.

They are already beginning to open some restaurants near me in NY.

I'm also an introvert, but it sounds like maybe not quite as much as you. This hasn't been all that hard for me, but there's lots of things I want to go back to, and I'm going to go back to everything I want to in 2 months after I get the vaccine. If I need to wear a mask, fine, but there's nothing I'm letting the virus stop me from doing once I'm in the clear. It will already have been 15 months by then since I've even left my freaking house, and enough is enough already...

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Osore
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
Posts: 524
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:41 pm 
 

^ As you might have seen in the Covid thread, I got my second dose of Sinopharm's vaccine on the 15th of March, but they keep prolonging the critical time period, so based on that I expect to acquire some level of protection between mid and late April, which is 30-40 days after. The problem with this vaccine is not only that it has delayed response compared to RNA and vector-based vaccines, it's less effective and we don't have data on T cell response. There are some people who haven't developed antibodies and they might get the third dose if the authorities decide. Generally, it's not recommended to measure antibodies against spike protein because scales aren't uniform across different labs, so I have no idea what's going on inside of my body. There is a justified concern about mutants being prevalent in Serbia these days, and with high transmission rate, we are concerned about new vaccine evading mutants. Titres of antibody against known varieties are already lower in vaccinated people, but that's the average value. There are people on the lower extreme who don't respond well to mutants. My fear is primarily based on undiscovered mutants. If we consistently have less than 20 cases per day (in a population of 6 millions), I'll be less afraid. It would be ideal if they could sequence the viral genome from those cases, but I think nobody does that in poor Serbia. That's another reason for believing in the existence of new variants - if you don't search for something, it doesn't exist.

I believe your jiu-jitsu classes will present the biggest risk 6 moths to a year after your second those, if they allow unvaccinated people to attend, because that is the period when antibodies start to fade and you start to rely first on T cell response, that is, on memory T cells, which might take some extra time to respond. Nobody currently knows for sure how long the protection is going to last. I mean, everyone was optimistic at the beginning, but it turns out that the longest protection among people who had COVID-19 (in comparison to unvaccinated people who have never been in contact with the virus) is in those who had moderate to severe form. It is believed that people who had very mild symptoms and no symptoms at all inhaled small amount of viral particles, which triggered weaker immune response. I don't understand people who wait to see ''how vaccine work'' before they decide to get one, like they live behind the glass and can watch us safely.

Possible outcomes are nicely summed up here, focusing on US/UK: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/healthcare-systems-and-services/our-insights/when-will-the-covid-19-pandemic-end.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 897
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:43 pm 
 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's true that we don't know yet how long the vaccine works, and that's of concern.

I think i'll be fine and I have a feeling they'll have figured out how long they work by the time it would come for me to get another shot. I mean I haven't even gotten my 1st shot yet (I'm getting it in 2 weeks) and the first Americans started getting it back around December-January, so there's very little chance I think that my vaccine would wear off before they know how long it lasts based on those first people. I am more concerned for those people because they'll be the guinea pigs and those are mostly older folks, but less concerned for myself.

I'd rather get vaccinated a 2nd time sooner rather than later if there's any doubt, but only one person I train with has gotten covid and he was ok. It's still concerning, but the bigger threat comes for people in other countries with more of the newer strains I think.

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Osore
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
Posts: 524
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:07 pm 
 

You will get a better vaccine, that's for sure. I have just looked at UAE, they vaccinated 89/100 people using Sinopharm and the numbers are high again...
Quote:
COVID-19 in the United Arab Emirates
Level 4: Very High Level of COVID-19 in the United Arab Emirates
Key Information for Travelers to the United Arab Emirates

Travelers should avoid all travel to the United Arab Emirates.
Because of the current situation in the United Arab Emirates even fully vaccinated travelers may be at risk for getting and spreading COVID-19 variants and should avoid all travel to the United Arab Emirates.
If you must travel to the United Arab Emirates, get fully vaccinated before travel. All travelers should wear a mask, stay 6 feet from others, avoid crowds, and wash their hands.

The same says for Serbia. What a bad marketing, and yet the least wanted vaccine is AstraZeneca. No logic.

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alktrash
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:04 am
Posts: 58
Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:09 am 
 

I'm living in south France, sunny countryside, that's the good part
But for music it's a nightmare
For like few years ago they start having metal gigs around, i was awaiting this for two decades, and then we got like 2-3 concerts per year in the area
So this is the first change with covid, no gigs anymore! And it's not like the local band could have one secretly, I mean bands are far US or germany but no french
With my girl we started looking at streaming live, first with Asphyx, then Tankard, then we take one each saturday night, not covid like but old time gigs online
Oh and I forgot Wacken who did some virtual fest last year

Out of that I'm listening a bit more, and i'm mainly listening vinyl, call me oldschool cause i still prefer old ones from 80s and 90s
this gave me the occasion to listen some i like less, and for the very few moment i can buy online i'm going for some stuff i would have killed anyone trying to make me listen at years ago, i mean Motley crue, Dio, stuff like that.
Because of countryside i cn't music on physical that easy, so i depend on the web
that's where things are going worst
swap trade, such as here, have disappeared
mafias like amazon and ebay are going stronger, so even discogs is fucked with "hey lets buy my 240euro version of this shit"
I piss on vinyl collectors & shops, really, and when i see earache trying to get money for a cruise with "underground" metalband obeying their audience i just want to burn them down
money won, digital mafia won, vomiting double vinyl heavy weight diluted albums sold for like 30euro average, just go fuck yourself with a deadcat

i realised metal is like Hellfest, party for the rich, no deep meaning, money flooding
so i'm going more oldschool, and more punk, more grind, more brutal, for in this scene they kept going with 10euro records and i congrats them for that, all fat beardy metalheads can go back to their barbecue fighting like an asgardian with a plastic sword

not forgoting oldschoolers, Asphyx and Tankard and others, quite many, who keep doing things for the love of it

cheers

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~Guest 1129985
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:52 pm
Posts: 264
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:30 pm 
 

Oh yeah, the pandemic inspired me to open up a Spotify account. Its been something I've been meaning to do for the last 5 or so years, but it actually serves a purpose now. Mail is so slow that it will probably take several months for CDs to arrive, so I can listen to it on Spotify in the meantime. Also, I'm in the process of rebuilding my CD collection (I jettisoned a TON of CDs years ago that I thought I'd never have any desire to listen to again: WRONG!), so I'm using Spotify to replay a lot of that stuff to see if I want it back. Despite the pandemic, I have recovered a lot, but there's still much more to go.

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