HeavenDuff wrote:
Smalley wrote:
What are you even arguing here? Catchyness is not the golden standard by which we judge the quality of all music, especially not metal music. Catchyness doesn't mean what you're describing here anyway. Great riffs are not necessarly catchy ones. There's also a big distinction between catchy riffs and accessible riffs (radio-friendly, pop sounding riffs). By your standards, there is basically no quality punk music, and all thrash music that focuses on speed and agression, like Kreator or Slayer, more than ear worm choruses, are subpar.
Sepultura had established themselves as a major thrash metal act way before Chaos A.D. So yeah, you're also wrong on that account. If anything, with Chaos A.D. the band was starting to make a very obvious shift towards groove/nu-metal territory, and the following album proves this to be true.
So because Metallica was catchy, Sepultura should have emulated what Metallica was doing? What...? Get out of here. Beneath the Remains and Arise are clearly way better records than Chaos A.D.
Catchiness isn't the only important factor in determining how good music is (not that I ever said that it was, for the record), but it still tends to be a significant factor in determining that anyway, and if a record (even a Metal record) lacks a sufficent amount of it to the person listening to it, then it's a flaw. Anyway, the point about Kreator/Slayer is also making an argument that I never made, because I don't feel that way (I mean, something like "Silent Scream" is very thrashy, but it also manages to be catchy as fuck at the same time; again, this isn't some either/or dilemma, and it shouldn't be treated like one). I also know Sep was a major, established Thrash act back in the day, and I never tried to say that they weren't; what I'm saying is, for the reasons I've already explained, that they were a Thrash act that had some room for improvement in their sound, which they did with
Chaos, A.D., which is why it's "clearly" their best record for me.
Kalaratri wrote:
Catchiness is a subjective criterion anyway. There are plenty of Sepultura riffs from both Beneath The Remains and Arise that get stuck in my head. Sepultura simplified their songwriting on Chaos A.D. and even more on Roots, to the effect that most of the elements of the band's sound that I liked were eliminated. Now obviously there are people who prefer the jumpdafuckup grooves of Chaos A.D. and Roots, but even within the context of groove and nu-metal Chaos A.D. and Roots are poorly executed compared to what other bands in those genres were doing at the time.
There are good songs/moments on the old-school Sep records, but about half the riffs
Beneath The Remains sound pretty indistinguishable from each other, IMO, which is why I've always preferred
Chaos to them; it may have fewer riffs per song than BTR did, but the riffs on it are generally more entertaining to listen to on an individual level, so it's a quality over quantity issue for me. Besides that, there's also a greater, more dynamic variety of tempos on it, ranging from up-tempo ("Propaganda"), slower ("Nomad"), or both in the same song ("Refuse/Resist"), which, combined with some of Iggor's best drumming, the improved production/vocals/lyrics, and the way that the band continued to expand their sonic palette (like with "Kaiowas"), makes me put it up alongside the best of Pantera or any other Groove band, and I would no more require Sep to have thrashed their entire career to be great than I would need Candlemass to stop playing so slowly, you know?
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ThStealthK wrote:
Thank god you're not a music teacher, the wisest decision you've ever made in your life.