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orionmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2331
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:30 pm 
 

Lord_Hate wrote:
orionmetalhead wrote:
SigurdOrSiegfried wrote:
How the fuck will I be able to get my metal?


The way it was meant to be acquired: by buying albums/cds/tapes etc and supporting the artists.


Do you think used record stores are wrong? Buying cds and tapes and whatnot secondhand isn't getting any money to the artists either.

It's been said before over and over, the best way to "support the band" is to buy merch at the shows. That, or send them money directly, if you really like them.


Buying second hand albums is still supportive not in a direct financial sense however with less second hand albums, more people will be forced to buy new releases / reissues etc.

Plus, buying albums second hand is many times the only way to come across many issues and releases.
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Lord_Hate
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:09 am
Posts: 54
Location: Iraq
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:37 pm 
 

orionmetalhead wrote:
Lord_Hate wrote:
orionmetalhead wrote:
SigurdOrSiegfried wrote:
How the fuck will I be able to get my metal?


The way it was meant to be acquired: by buying albums/cds/tapes etc and supporting the artists.


Do you think used record stores are wrong? Buying cds and tapes and whatnot secondhand isn't getting any money to the artists either.

It's been said before over and over, the best way to "support the band" is to buy merch at the shows. That, or send them money directly, if you really like them.


Buying second hand albums is still supportive not in a direct financial sense however with less second hand albums, more people will be forced to buy new releases / reissues etc.

Plus, buying albums second hand is many times the only way to come across many issues and releases.


Sometimes second hand is even imposible to find. It can get as far as tens or even dozens of hands down, often in music file form over the computer just to even find some releases... I see we therefore agree.

To quote a wise poster from quite a while ago:

toxikxrealm wrote:
I steal my music from soulseek. I don't care about the bands. I only care about the music.

And plus, Im a poor nigger.


I agree with the reissues, though, which is why that recent reissues thread is such a great idea.
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The_Saberfool
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:54 pm
Posts: 68
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:37 pm 
 

So... could I get confirmation from someone who knows computer technology (I know enough to get by, but I am by no means knowledgeable when it comes to networks) about the safety of downloading via torrents. I know that one person already said the process is anonymous and therefore safe, but I'd like to get a "second opinion."

I don't download anything off the "Top 40," etc. so it shouldn't be a problem, but still...
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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 653
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:38 pm 
 

The_Saberfool wrote:
So... could I get confirmation from someone who knows computer technology (I know enough to get by, but I am by no means knowledgeable when it comes to networks) about the safety of downloading via torrents. I know that one person already said the process is anonymous and therefore safe, but I'd like to get a "second opinion."

I don't download anything off the "Top 40," etc. so it shouldn't be a problem, but still...


The bit torrent protocol is not anonymous, ISP's can still perform deep packet inspections. However I recommend using peerguardian to block other people from viewing your IP.

That being said, there is a new protocol being developed that is going to make bit torrent obsolete. It's called .p2p

Small clip of an interview with the pirate bay guys discussing their new protocol,

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/clips/the-pi ... 328935.php
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orionmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:54 am
Posts: 2331
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:51 pm 
 

@ Lord_Hate

I've always felt that the search for the tangible release is as rewarding as listening to the album. its like finding treasure and is the reason that I don't download anymore. Downloading renders the purpose of a release or limited edition meaningless.

for impossible to find releases... no one will want to trade them or sell them which is perfectly reasonable. This is why cd-r and tape trading is still relevant. especially with the mounds of limited edition stuff that seems to be all the rage now-a-days
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Lord_Hate
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:09 am
Posts: 54
Location: Iraq
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:57 pm 
 

CD-Rs are a noble invention.
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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 4472
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:08 pm 
 

Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
People need to learn about PeerGuardian.


Yes, everyone needs a placebo tinfoil hat!

Honestly folks, you're not gonna get busted using soulseek, and torrents are not anonymous, especially if you're using public sites like torrentspy.

I've heard stories of RIAA people uploading fake files to public torrent sites and then watching who downloads them.

I don't/won't use those sites, but that's just me.

Even private trackers aren't safe anymore after the oink incident, but it says something that they didn't try to go after a single oink user. There are too many. There were 200,000 users on oink, and that's only a small portion of the file-sharing community. They simply don't have the resources or manpower to prosecute everyone and their Bearsharing mother.
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ROBL250
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 244
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:14 pm 
 

What about underground bands who publicly allow people to download from them?..will the downloader be prosecuted even if he/she had full permission to download the album/demo from the band?

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 402
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:20 pm 
 

ROBL250 wrote:
What about underground bands who publicly allow people to download from them?..will the downloader be prosecuted even if he/she had full permission to download the album/demo from the band?


No of course not as long as it is an official release from the band.

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 653
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:24 pm 
 

Nahsil wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
People need to learn about PeerGuardian.


Yes, everyone needs a placebo tinfoil hat!


What?
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mevyhetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 9:55 am
Posts: 34
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:44 pm 
 

Back in the day when I used Kazaa-lite, an RIAA IP showed up in my PeerGuardian log one day and I wasn't even sharing anything. Of course, it's possible that the RIAA (or whoever does their dirty work) were doing mass portscans or there just happened to be a filesharer with an IP that was in the blocked range. A few U.S. government IP's showed up in my log, too.

Also, here's a "list" of all the RIAA labels:

http://www.riaa.com/aboutus.php?content ... us_members

Now, read this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=1522790
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_RIAA_member_labels

:nono:
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Last edited by mevyhetal on Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Leify
A Whisper of Death

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:54 am
Posts: 733
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:45 pm 
 

XHatePriestX wrote:
Alright, I can see how that would work. I was hoping that the fact that I listen to more obscure bands would make me practically immune.
Thank you Lord Hate.


Not to mention you can't be prosecuted if the artist in question doesn't have a US distribution deal (I think.) So...invest in foreign metal, it's the new gold standard.
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thinkpad20
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:35 pm
Posts: 130
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:50 pm 
 

I only use blogs, by which I mean links to megaupload, rapidshare, and the like. I'm pretty sure that these things are virtually untraceable, unless the government went through the trouble of uploading Transylvanian Hunger to megaupload, sent the link to Grimlord's Metal Depot, and then sat there waiting for some poor sap to download it. Yeah, right. Plus they'd probably need permission from the hosting site (megaupload) to view the traffic in the first place, although there might be ways around this.

As people have said, the only things which people will get arrested for is "top 40" type of music, as well as movies etc. The idea of "protecting artists" or "promoting creativity" is just laughable; this is clearly the result of overwhelming pressure from a panicking industry. It's the businesses who are worried. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but even mega-stars make most of their money from touring, not record sales, and you can't download those. Therefore the only people who are being hurt by downloading are record companies and record stores.

I think actually that metal record companies and stores might be helped by illegal downloading, because people like myself tend to buy almost exclusively albums which I've already listened to - and I buy a lot. My local metal store likes me. :)
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Last edited by thinkpad20 on Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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aces_high
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 4:59 pm
Posts: 119
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:50 pm 
 

Is there a way of finding out who uses sites like megaupload and rapidshare? Have there been any notable prosecutions by the RIAA against people who downloaded from these sites?

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Deaths_Design
Anti-Christian Miscreant

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:32 pm
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:51 pm 
 

The_Count wrote:
I am however very curious to see how that single mother comes up with the cash for that court case :lol:


She sold her baby to an organ farm.
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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 4472
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:52 pm 
 

Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Nahsil wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
People need to learn about PeerGuardian.


Yes, everyone needs a placebo tinfoil hat!


What?


It may offer some level of protection, but if PG users think they're safe from the evil RIAA/MPAA/whatever they're kidding themselves.
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mrchris
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 874
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:06 pm 
 

Who gives a shit, it's not like I listen to any of the so-called 'music' on the "Top 40" I'm downloading...

Top 40 = CRAP

Long live Indie and obscure non-RIAA labels
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MushroomStamp
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:07 pm
Posts: 395
Location: Helsinki, Finland
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:24 pm 
 

Just another scare tactic from the money-hungry RIAA bosses.
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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1213
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:25 pm 
 

It's beginning to look like a crusade of sorts.

I spend all my money on cd's but I wouldn't have known those albums without downloading.

The record companies alreay make ridiculous amounts of money and they dont want to let a penny go....

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 402
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:44 pm 
 

aces_high wrote:
Is there a way of finding out who uses sites like megaupload and rapidshare? Have there been any notable prosecutions by the RIAA against people who downloaded from these sites?


That would be the big question atm and what I am trying to find an example of on the net. So far I cant find any events where that happened.

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SupremeAbstract
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 123
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:48 pm 
 

Would they be able to prosecute for music that wasn't recorded or even sold in America (ie, rare black metal demos)? And what about free stuff? If I gave away all my CDs for free would they still be able to prosecute those who share the files?
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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 653
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:50 pm 
 

Nahsil wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
Nahsil wrote:
Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
People need to learn about PeerGuardian.


Yes, everyone needs a placebo tinfoil hat!


What?


It may offer some level of protection, but if PG users think they're safe from the evil RIAA/MPAA/whatever they're kidding themselves.


PG coupled with proxies will really help, though.
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Emperor_Of_Ice
Butterfly Sister Marjoram

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:02 pm 
 

...So should I just go on a month long downloading spree, download EVERY album ever made, then delete Azureus and Soulseek? :P

...Seriously. I don't know and I'm not going to lose my PC to Uncle Sam. Hell, I'll probably just delete SS to be safe; not that I ever use it anymore anyway. I just get whatever I find on blogs. And I never use torrents for music.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 4875
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:03 pm 
 

Even worse today i read a online article where the company atlantic or something is going after people who even just ripped theire cd's.

WHAT

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ROBL250
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 244
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:02 pm 
 

You know what pisses me off about all this is, in the future record companys will be using virus-like technology on their CDs which will render them obsolete after a given period or number of plays, thus the customer will have to buy the CD again.
Infact theyve already done this with the new Radiohead download that was released, the download is timed so that when the album is released all the MP3 files will delete themselves and the people who paid less than £5 online to buy the songs will have to re-buy the album on disk.

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bansheekiller
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:37 pm
Posts: 22
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:05 pm 
 

ROBL250 wrote:
You know what pisses me off about all this is, in the future record companys will be using virus-like technology on their CDs which will render them obsolete after a given period or number of plays, thus the customer will have to buy the CD again.


Please find a time machine and go into the future and check.
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ROBL250
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 244
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:07 pm 
 

It wouldnt surprise me if it doesnt happen already, like with TVs there designed to fault after a certain period (after the warranty runs out), how else would the companys make a profit.

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 402
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:10 pm 
 

ROBL250 wrote:
It wouldnt surprise me if it doesnt happen already, like with TVs there designed to fault after a certain period (after the warranty runs out), how else would the companys make a profit.


So what you are saying is even after you pay 15-20 dollars for a cd then that cd will break after a certain period of time and you will have to buy that cd AGAIN? All this being done in the open and the record companies admitting to such?

I mean that is what you are saying right? Just making sure I am not misreading something here.

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ROBL250
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 244
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:12 pm 
 

yep thats exactly what im saying...It may sound ludicrous, but it'll happen sooner or later if it isnt already.

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 402
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:05 pm 
 

:lol:

Everyone needs to check this website out

https://www.p2plawsuits.com/P2P_00_Home.aspx

It was made for people to settle cases online before they goto court so the record companies do not have to incur legal fees.

I cant believe this shit is serious.

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invoked
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:54 pm
Posts: 1523
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:21 pm 
 

I was surprised to see some (relatively) metal labels on the RIAA's list, but upon checking the Wikipedia article I was quite relieved to see that Relapse is incorrectly included. However, I wasn't surprised or upset to see that those boy-loving evil vampires at Roadrunner were on the list.

I think most of us can relax, seeing as even the "bigger" labels such as Nuclear Blast, Century Media, Earache, Metal Blade, Relapse, Candlelight etc. etc. are not allied with the RIAA. Just stay away from those Metallica albums...
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mpawluk
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 45
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:07 pm 
 

What is this PeerGuardian everyone is talking about?

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HelloCthulhu
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:54 am
Posts: 165
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:14 pm 
 

mpawluk wrote:
What is this PeerGuardian everyone is talking about?


Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
However I recommend using peerguardian to block other people from viewing your IP.

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mpawluk
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 45
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:15 pm 
 

Yeah, I understand that, but is it effective?

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 402
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:17 pm 
 

invoked wrote:
I was surprised to see some (relatively) metal labels on the RIAA's list, but upon checking the Wikipedia article I was quite relieved to see that Relapse is incorrectly included. However, I wasn't surprised or upset to see that those boy-loving evil vampires at Roadrunner were on the list.

I think most of us can relax, seeing as even the "bigger" labels such as Nuclear Blast, Century Media, Earache, Metal Blade, Relapse, Candlelight etc. etc. are not allied with the RIAA. Just stay away from those Metallica albums...


So I was reading Metal blade is "distributed" in the US by BMG. Does this mean they would fall under the ability for the RIAAs lawsuits sense BMG is part of the RIAA alliance?
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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 653
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:22 pm 
 

mpawluk wrote:
Yeah, I understand that, but is it effective?


Yes, to a degree. Don't use it thinking it will offer you any all powerful protection against inspection. If you wish to be most secure, download behind a proxy AND peerguardian.
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mpawluk
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 45
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:24 pm 
 

Thorgrim_Honkronte wrote:
mpawluk wrote:
Yeah, I understand that, but is it effective?


Yes, to a degree. Don't use it thinking it will offer you any all powerful protection against inspection. If you wish to be most secure, download behind a proxy AND peerguardian.

I don't download music in the first place - I just thought it'd be nice to have against other shit, and it seems to be doing its job nicely. Thanks to the person who brought it up.

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Thorgrim_Honkronte
Imperius Rexxz

Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm
Posts: 653
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:24 pm 
 

That would be me.
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mpawluk
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 45
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:27 pm 
 

Well thank you.

And back to the original topic: Is it possible for non-RIAA record label bands that have been pirated to get fucked too? Or is it just the songs from RIAA labels that are "illegally" downloaded?

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The_Count
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:04 pm
Posts: 402
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:37 pm 
 

mpawluk wrote:
Well thank you.

And back to the original topic: Is it possible for non-RIAA record label bands that have been pirated to get fucked too? Or is it just the songs from RIAA labels that are "illegally" downloaded?


Appears to only be members of the RIAAs alliance.


Also all this reminded me of an MC Lars song :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zTPDVkVFOs

Take that RIAA
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