This is indeed how most of the people think. However, if they are regarding music as a passion, they should support it. But, I guess it's just money first. The same goes for all the magazines.
Some (metalhead and lucid) friend and of mine was saying:
"What do magazines sell? Informations. The same info you can get freely on the net. People won't even think twice about it".

In the first post, I was intimately talking about the repercussions in the metal world, and the attitudes of metalheads (which are, unfortunately, very much like everybody else).

I am not immune to the allure of downloading, either. I almost always search online for an album that I am interested in. So I can't really call out people who do it, however I am also different from those who download and never buy because what I like to do is check out the album before I choose to buy it, to see if in fact I will really enjoy it. To date every album that I really like, I have downloaded first and then later bought.

I have been working on both sides of the industry for years...and I think the major issue is that most people don't believe there is any value left anymore in buying CDs when you can download for free. Perhaps it has to do with the materials you get...the only saving grace with a CD is getting the AIFF file and that's it.

For a music collector like me, the truth of the matter is; the demographic of people who actually buy music the most are the 35-55 age group. The industry as a whole has to realize this is the market they need to cater to. With that, they need to figure out what is going to be the hard product...are they going to stick with CDs and go with a better packaging to justify the value of their product? Should majors just have enough balls to take the CDs off the shelves and offer the sales only through their websites and cut out the middleman completely for the hard product?

The industry shot itself in the foot when they went digital. They should have stuck with vinyl instead and you'd have to convert your vinyl to an MP3 or higher level file and that's how you'd take it with you, instead of a cassette...but they didn't do that. They wanted to get "space age" and do an upgrade which basically killed their whole business in many ways.

It's not a completely lost cause, I just think that labels have to re-think the value of their product they are selling. Why pay $9.99 for a 128bps download through Itunes with PDF artwork when you can get the same thing with maybe a better download rate somewhere else for cheaper or for free? The only benefit in the CD again is the AIFF upgrade.

I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with previewing something before you buy something though.

I think that a major reason that downloading has become so prevalent is, and this is not necessarily the case with metal, themusic business has become more concerned with selling individual songs via MTV and radio play. It's not very often that you see artists really struggling to put together one overall very good ALBUM. They are more concerned with putting out one or two hit songs and hoping that people will buy the album for those songs.

This has lead the music-buying public as a whole to be dissatisfied with buying albums, because other than a couple songs, there is a lot of filler. So, rather than paying the $15.00 or so it would take to buy the album, they don't have a problem with downloading.

I do think that downloading is slightly more of an issue with the more mainstream types of music. People who don't really consider themselves serious music fans are a little more likely to download than those that do.

As for my country, the United States is quite obviously a massive downloading country. You see people walking on the streets listening to iPODs, you can plug them into your vehicles now as well.

I personally only have three demos by Demilich that I have downloaded off of their website. Everything else I own in physical format.

Most people around here whose musical habits I am au fait with prefer to download. And I suspect that with increasing connection speeds and levels of internet-savviness this is only going to increase. Given that the underlying reasons-- cost of CDs/hard copy (usually high in this country); laziness; impatience; and the insatiable greed for new music-- are unlikely to change any time soon, there is only one way that the trends can go.

The only thing that appears able to effect any kind of change is more draconian laws regarding copyright etc., but as we've all seen this is having a vanishingly slim effect even in the US where control seems tightest (as far as I can tell from my outsider viewpoint, of course). Here, we don't even have that, and so we're left with a situation where there is a drive to download and for most, no force not to.

I find it a little sickening myself, but that's more than a little hypocritical since I download so much else (movies, games, other software). I suspect that it is only my overweaning love of music that keeps me on the straight and narrow, as it were; if it were as a mere hobby to me I don't think I'd have any qualms about downloading faster than I could listen. I suspect that the general populace are in this same boat, save that most don't listen to music with enough dedication to even make mass downloading worth the bandwidth.

@Thorgrim: I can understand such an attitude; I'm not saying "buy bad albums". But I say it's a part of the discovery process. Take risks. What is 10$ in a lifetime and in a 800 cds collection?



You are quite right there. Althougth the age varies; in here, it's more the 30 years old who get out of metal and hence, stop buying.

Actually, the small ug labels help the "market" (the ug distro net, that is) survive, by distributing sometime mediocre, sometime good releases, but at least they don't give mp3s away for free on a website.

Oh, I've done so many times actually. Especially when I bought a Morgoth compilation album, I knew absolutely nothing about them and I do like the album. On another occassion it was with Shadow Gallery. But yeah, I prefer to stick to my safer method of purchasing now, especially when I have very limited budget to spend. I can promise if I had more money I would definitely be more free with how I spent it, heh.

makes me buy more cds than I can manage financially. And I am in no way rich.

The only thing I have d/l is the whole skitsystem discography, available for free at their website, but I sure will get their vinyls.




Yeah, that's obvious that we'd buy more if we had more

I think it is a kind of a "sane" form consumerism, as it is only for the love of music, and the will to discover more and more stuff. But still, I don't download. Dunno why. Maybe because I have never started. I don't see why I should start now.

It's all about marketing. If you know your market you can stay in business. Shit, I'm sounding too much like I'm talking in my Business School class now Yeah an old fooker like me is finally going for his Bachelors in Business.

The 35-55 year olds are not only the majority of market share for music buying, but these are the people who spend $149.99+ a show for their nostalgia acts via their AMEX card.

I'm apart of that crowd, the 35-55 age bracket. I spend money on buying vinyl. I can't justify buying a CD unless I really want the AIFF file. With me, most times I am looking for something rare and that's not necessarily available at a record store, and sometimes it isn't even available at amazon.com. I still want to hear it first, unless it's bands/acts that I follow blindly and just buy their stuff. If I like the music enough, I'll find the CD or vinyl if available (which IMO if I am buying the vinyl, that's the most ultimate purchase and shows my allegience to that album). I think most people though are like that now.

Shit, when I first worked at a music label in 1999, my boss had Napster on his computer at work and had a shitload of stuff downloaded in it. It goes all across the board.

If you don't want the RIAA on your ass, don't download major label stuff, and don't upload anything and become someone that hosts filesharing. Other than that, you should be ok. I doubt that they are going to come after you for downloading and checking out the new BEXEHEN album or anything like that.

I'm SOO lazy that I decide just to buy the album on itunes so I dont have to wait 3 days downloading an underground band's discography that has like 2 seeds on it since no one knows about it.

This country, isolated from the things that matter from music (and life in general) and left with what the big boss of consumerism and "culture" wants to bring here, leaves my range very, VERY limited when it comes to buying original albums (not only Metal, actually), therefore I have no choice but to turn to the downloading of the music if I wish to listen to. The albums I CAN find, are not only incredibly few but are also usually from abroad and are therefore out of my budget, in such ways, that I can only buy one album each month or even less. Also, downloading music is the only way I can actually decide if it's worth it of buying. I don't want to spend 60 bucks on an album I will hate.

But I do try to buy the original albums of all the music I download, given the chance (ergo: if I can find it, and then, if I have the money).

What can I say? It's the way it is.

Usually I'll download a pretty good cross section of songs from a band if I haven't heard any of their music before. If I like it, I'll go out and buy some of their CDs.

I wouldn't care about all those RIAFF, AIFF, IRA, KKK and such (joke) I just don't download because I like to have the cd, the freshly printed booklet in my hands etc...

Usually buying and downloading doesn't make a difference to the band, only to the record companies. I can't get any good music here so I use Itunes, but the band only makes 7 cents a song. So it doesn't make much difference.

Hem
I've just had a very obvious thought.
I guess downloading is highly linked with our new way of living; you know, our very own: spending hours in front of a computer instead of hanging out with fellows, going to gigs, and... wandering in cds stores.
Just a thought.

I feel I do my part for the industry. I purchase somewhere between 5 and 10 cd's or cassette's each month. So far I'm up to around 300 albums I own physically. However I admit to also downloading in mass as my collection is somewhere around 2,000 albums. Though I'm not typically supporting larger artists, who in most cases don't make any significant profit from record sales. I'd much rather purchase a cd from an underground artist because I at least know there is a higher chance that the money is going to them, or that they have already profited from the release by selling it to a distro. Larger artists have the profit from their tours to help them, underground artists in most cases play for free and don't have that additional income. At least that's in part how I rationalize it. I'm sure if I had more money I'd buy even more albums per month.

it does make a difference on the band. If the record company isn't making money off the band I believe they can drop them.

I never download music unless it is not available for sale. However, I never buy CDs anymore because it's not convenient.

Some artists have started offering material on the honor system. I'd love to see this catch on. I've bought several releases on the honor system.

When people realize that they are ripping off the artists that they love, you'd think they would want to pay something to show their appreciation.

For me it's a financial issue. I'm a jobless full time college student and I do not possess the funds to buy all of the music I enjoy.

I will most likely buy all of my favorite albums when I do get my hands on the money, but until then, slsk.

Downloading is very general here, and I can't blame most people. Yet I do think there is still hope for artists, because a cd/tape/etc. can be enjoyed almost everywhere, but can also be downloaded. Of some things of an artist, though, you can't do much else than buying/consuming. What about a t-shirt to show your love for a band? Or going to concerts of that band?

I think the artists shouldn't lay very much trust in albums/tapes/etc. anymore, because who would buy it if you can just get it for free? I do think that things as concerts and merchandise are irreplacable, and you don't go around stealing a ticket or a t-shirt as easily as you "steal" the music.

I download everything, and for the outstanding bands I buy their shirt, and attend their concerts.

Definitely. For example, take an ipod of one of my classmates; they have a huge number of artists, but mostly just one to three songs of each.

I can image that in maybe ten years or so, the newest Beyonce album won't be available on CD anymore, but I'm positive about the compact disc maintaining its number one position for less popular musical genres. Of course, metal, for instance, will increasingly reach greater audiences, and the casual listener of the Dimmu Borgirs or Triviums of the future certainly will be downloading all of his stuff, but most of the real music fanciers will abide by the physical release, whether it is CD, vinyl or even tape.

Don't be so sure. It is a pity, but I know metalheads who are really into it, and still, buy very few cds.

Oh yeah, I know a few extremely dedicated metal fans with tiny collections of CDs and external hard drives full of MP3s. I can't see things going anywhere but downhill at this point; there are too many people going straight for downloads even of fairly small bands for whom every sale is going to count. See: that guy a while back asking where he could download Bongripper albums.

I usually end up buying albums after sampling a few tracks by downloading. However, if I enjoy those few tracks that I've downloaded, I won't immediately buy the album, especially if it's hard to track down and even harder to get at a reasonable price. But if it's a band that I'm really into, I'll buy the album. For instance, I just ordered GBK's Judeobeast Assassination after having several mp3's from more than one of their albums for over a year; I bought that one based on comparing and contrasting the songs from that album with the other albums.

So I guess I'm fairly split down the middle. I download plenty, but I usually end up buying the albums and deleting the mp3's.

You can buy almost anything off of Internet sites as long as it is not extremely ultra obscure (Limbonic Art? Yes. Megagoatkillbestialnecroticdeathsquad Ritual? Probably not.). You may have to pay for international shipping from the USA, but you can get it.

I used to download a lot, but stopped almost entirely (except for audience recordings from bands that condone it) because of my conscience (Britney Spears won't be hurting from a few downloads, but many metal bands, even those that sell tens or hundreds of thousands of copies of each album, often make upper-middle income at best), fear of prosecution/being sued, and moving near a huge record store that sells all kinds of music, including metal, from Alicia Keys to Burzum. You may download and go "hurf durf rich musicians who cares", but a lot of the bands you listen to are not rich and downloading an entire discography leaves them out of a lot of money.

I don't mind "try before you buy", but you should buy it if you like it.

Some players in the music industry are considering giving away music for free, through downloads, and using advertisements to get needed funds. However I don't think many metal labels are into it yet. Here's the article:
http://enews.earthlink.net/article/tec? ... 1171275414

I download the music, usually in a .rar file, then I go and buy the actual album once I get enough money.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I also buy tons of merchandise from bands I really like.

I'm the same way. The only album I don't physically own out my 250ish is Nespithe, and I'm working on it (got bid-snipped in my last attempt on eBay...).

I guess I'm addicted to buying cd's and building my collection. I don't understand how people can be satisfied with just having mp3's on their computer, unless of course they have no choice. I would never leave anything that I can have physically exclusively on my computer, I just don't trust it.

I enjoy the whole process of first finding out about a particular band, then reading some reviews, maybe sampling some music on myspace or iTunes (if it's available), then finally hunting down the cd or record. The more I have to work to get an album, the more rewarding it is to give it that first listen (unless the album ends up sucking).

Going to shows and buying merch is equally addictive, but fortunately those opportunities are limited, otherwise I'd be broke.

Yeah, but the record label is responsible for the downloads (hence the ridiculous lawsuits that organizations such as the RIAA impose). I don't think a label, no matter how greedy, would be stupid enough to drop a band that is making them money, regardless of the fact that they're being downloaded a lot. The more popular a band is, the more downloaded the band will be - that's very straightforward, and labels would be basically committing hari-kari if they dropped every popular band on their label.

Are you assuming that a record label can somehow tell how many times a given band's album is pirated?

No, not at all. But I would think that what I stated is obvious - the most popular bands are in the highest demand and are therefore downloaded the most.

Well what I am saying is only backing up Jack's point. A band can be pirated like a motherfucker but still have very few people purchase albums, etc. and be dropped by the label.

This is true. What I was trying to imply is that even if the band's CDs are being downloaded more then they are being bought, it's possible to download pretty much anything you want now. With a lesser known band, I can imagine people wouldn't just blindly buy the CDs; they'd download them. Therefore, even a larger band being ripped off makes more money then a smaller one being ripped off.

Large record labels are a dying breed, anyway. If they want to keep making money, an alternate means of obtaining it needs to be in order.

those alternate means are called lawsuits. It's not hard to trace people who download. They just choose wisely on who would make the best example.

I only download when I'm completely broke(which is pretty much all the time), when an album is over $25 USD(unless its a double album) or if it's impossible to track down. As a result, a good part of my collection is downloaded.

edit: I will add that many people here, that I know, download. Many others fear the RIAA so much that they just stay away from downloading. The ones that don't fall into either category have this idea that just because something is illegal, it's automatically bad. It seems that everyone I know views this issue in terms of black and white. You either download or you don't. I've offended someone just by asking for a CD-r so that I can preview a band. Other people I know are downloading thousands of songs, and buying nothing. It seems that I'm the only one around here who takes the middle ground.

I'm not sure if this is fitting here, but I'll just bring up a point. I think downloading could actually be beneficial to music in general(not the music industry, of course), because it makes the music business less lucrative. It sounds contradictory, but it means that more musicians will make music just for the sake of making good music than trying to earn a profit through it. I think metal in particular really isn't being harmed by downloading. It wasn't lucrative in the first place, and almost all metal musicians make a living off another job. The commercial shit is what is being damaged, not the 'good' music that we listen to. Also, downloading abridges the musical accessibilty gap between the rich and the poor, and lets obsucre bands become more well-known. So, what do you think about it?

I download everything before I purchase it, unless it is a must have that is sure to be a winner(like when Danzig or Emperor releases something). Or if it isn't leaked before release day and I had already planned to buy it.

The catch here is, if I download it and it sucks, I don't buy it. If it is good, I will always purchase it. When an album sucks I also delete it from my computer since there is no reason in taking up space on my harddrive for worthless garbage.

So really there is no reason for bands or labels to fear downloaders like myself, unless they are producing crap. Which should go unrewarded in the first place.

The only times I will download and not purchase something I like is if it is entirely unavailable or a bootleg anyways, such as Dawn of the Black Hearts and Gods of All Heretic.

I will continue to download regardless of the laws that have been implemented, because the music that I listen to always have much more expensive CDs in the shops. The value of those CDs never drops, just stays the same because it's been imported. But the popular shit gets onto the shelves and half price value within 2 months. And they're asking me to buy CDs at the full price of 12.99 per album. ($26) I know it's fair enough that those popular stuff will have only 2-3 good songs on the CD but if you want me to buy the CDs, have some depreciation value on some CDs, you know!

However, without downloading, my metal knowledge would have been strictly limited to Slayer, etc the popular mainstream metal, only because if I had to pay for CDs, I would have been less inclined to spread out to buy new CDs that are completely new to me because of the 12.99 price tag on it. So the less popular/mainstream bands win as I will download then buy their stuff as I'd know it would be worth the money

While I am at it, I'll just underline something.
I don't know the situation in other countries, but in France, you can hear metalheads saying "cds are way too expensive, their price is getting high and higher."

This is false. Well, a cd is expensive: 18€ for a plastic disc and box, and booklet, seems expensive. But we buy it with the music, as a whole, and we are aware of it.
However, the cd's price has not risen. Some of you might remember before €uro time, in 1999-2000. Cds were the same price than now, that's 120 francs. And still, you can hear people saying "We are being deceived by €uros, everything is much more expensive" which is right on most things, but not cds.
Another issue for such a price in France is the TVA. It is, roughly translated, Tax on the Added Value. It's 19,6% of the "un-taxed" product(sidenote: we actually don't care, because all prices are written tax- included in France), but for CULTURAL OBJECTS, it 5,5%.
CD is not considered as a cultural object. Which is righteous, when the see the amount of utter shit, denaturing music, in the shelves.
But still, explains a few things about the price.